Wickham Trolley

[Colin_McLeod]

Maybe a blackbird in a cage would be a useful audible warning device.

[MikeParkin65]

It's been done here - http://www.oliviastrains.com/trains/mt/Bachmann-diesel/Bachmann-permanent-way-vehicles/Bachmann-32-991-wickham-trolley-trailer/

 

In my view it's a futile exercise as, at normal viewing distances, the sound should be at a barely discernible level. Just because it can be done doesn't mean it's a good thing, in this case, as it absolutely ruins the model in the way it's executed. 

 

Thats a strangely negative post Andy. DCC sound like all modelling is a compromise. Sounds in a model aren't like sounds in the real world for all sorts of reasons. As modellers we choose to ignore things that aren't in our focus  - we just concentrate on the area that interests us and thats fine. So just because a Wickham trolly doesn't sound as loud as a Jubilee on full chat or even a DMU on tickover it doesn't mean a model  Wickham can't be as loud as the user chooses. Olivias fitting sound to the Wickham is a fine technical achievement and its manner of execution will be acceptable to many.

 

Each to their own and live and let live

[Andy Y]

How much space is there below the central fixing metal loop? If its more than 1.7mm then the even smaller DCX76z would be a better choice, albeit seeming to be out of stock everywhere, as that is only 6.9 x 6.1mm compared to the 10.8 x 7.1mm  of the DCX76 - it is however thicker 1.7mm compared to 1.3mm and only has 2 functions rather than 4.

 

Yes; there's a bit of vertical wiggle room once it's under the fixing bar so the zD would be a safe bet. I'd have gone for it if I'd found one in stock whereas the DCX76 was always going to be a bit touch and go.

[Guest 40-something]

Thats a strangely negative post Andy. DCC sound like all modelling is a compromise. Sounds in a model aren't like sounds in the real world for all sorts of reasons. As modellers we choose to ignore things that aren't in our focus  - we just concentrate on the area that interests us and thats fine. So just because a Wickham trolly doesn't sound as loud as a Jubilee on full chat or even a DMU on tickover it doesn't mean a model  Wickham can't be as loud as the user chooses. Olivias fitting sound to the Wickham is a fine technical achievement and its manner of execution will be acceptable to many.

 

Each to their own and live and let live

I think the main negative is that its olivia's that doing it!  

 

I agree with Andy, these things are quiet and the wheels make more noise when rolling, and when idling, they make as much noise as a diesel car/van - and Im not sure many folk would want to be putting sound in their Oxford Diecasts!

[Andy Y]

Thats a strangely negative post Andy. DCC sound like all modelling is a compromise. Sounds in a model aren't like sounds in the real world for all sorts of reasons. As modellers we choose to ignore things that aren't in our focus  - we just concentrate on the area that interests us and thats fine. So just because a Wickham trolly doesn't sound as loud as a Jubilee on full chat or even a DMU on tickover it doesn't mean a model  Wickham can't be as loud as the user chooses. Olivias fitting sound to the Wickham is a fine technical achievement and its manner of execution will be acceptable to many.

 

Each to their own and live and let live

 

I have quite a few sound models but none of them are visually marred by its inclusion. Although largely pointless if it were at prototypical volume levels I wouldn't criticise it but when it's such a ham-fisted approach it's inevitable. Next time I won't bother trying to find space for a speaker, I'll just stick it on the roof with some insulating tape.

[Porcy Mane]

these things are quiet and the wheels make more noise when rolling, and when idling, they make as much noise as a diesel car/van

 

I'd still like to hear Dora shouting, "I cwaim the weward fwa St. Twinians!" Dunno who'd get the Royalties though?

[Guest 40-something]

I have quite a few sound models but none of them are visually marred by its inclusion. Although largely pointless if it were at prototypical volume levels I wouldn't criticise it but when it's such a ham-fisted approach it's inevitable. Next time I won't bother trying to find space for a speaker, I'll just stick it on the roof with some insulating tape.

You must not have seen the real things with black plasticard weather protection sheets!!! :-)

[Andy Y]

 Im not sure many folk would want to be putting sound in their Oxford Diecasts!

 

I haven't put sound in one but I have created sounds for vehicles for background tracks.

[Guest 40-something]

I haven't put sound in one but I have created sounds for vehicles for background tracks.

White van drivers shouting abuse at folk?

 

Seriously though, thats quite interesting!!

[Andy Y]

Seriously though, thats quite interesting!!

 

If you can name any vehicle featured at various points in this I'd be mightily impressed - http://rmweb.co.uk/photos/soundfile.mp3 (no vehicles until 2:30+) but all the vehicles feature on the owner's layout.

[Porcy Mane]

Three men in a boat?

Two turtle Doves?

Four French hens?

I heard a brief squawk of a Sh*te Hawk.

If only it was a BSA Bantam.

A set of over pressured remoulds.

Triumph Acclaim (Non Original Horn)

Serious this one. Austin/Morris (Mowog) in-line engine. (With cast Iron combined manifold, No 3 tappet out of adjustment and the driver was wearing red underpants.)

Typical Ford blowing exhaust.

Big Guy with a Cummins diesel

[Andy Y]

 

I heard a brief squawk of a Sh*te Hawk.

If only it was a BSA Bantam.

Serious this one. Austin/Morris (Mowog) in-line engine. (With cast Iron combined manifold, No 3 tappet out of adjustment and the driver was wearing red underpants.)

Typical Ford blowing exhaust.

Big Guy with a Cummins diesel

 

Many sh*tehawks.

Francis Barnett Fulmar

Spot on although I believe they were a fetching grey.

Yeehaa - Anglia 105e

AEC Mandator

 

It's getting awfully anoraky in here.

[Porcy Mane]

I thought that FBF

 

It's getting awfully anoraky in here.

 

Too right it is,

I thought that Fulmar (not the sh*thawk type) sounded familiar but I thought no.

 

 

Audacity?

[Andy Y]

Audacity?

 

Yes, very easy to use (and free of course) and you found the source!

[MarkSG]

In the spirit of St Trinians, combined with the time of year, here's a little seasonal silliness.....

 

[Porcy Mane]

Must confess to not having read this thread back far enough until today but I see that you had already come to the conclusion about junking the board underneath the trolley and fitting a CT decoder.

 Once I'd got my hands on one I'd decided it would be easier to utilise the circuit board, as is, and just dump the inductors & capacitors but make use of the inductors PCB connections to tie in the track and motor connections.

 

This is how I've done mine using the CT electronic DCZ77zDN Six Pin Decoder.

 

I used the socket as I wanted the option to remove the chip when running on non DCC layouts that use feedback controllers. If you want to remove the inductors and capacitors and then permanently fit a harnessed DCX77zD there is ample room above the Bachmann circuit board.

 

The body from the un-powered half of the trolley's lifts off as a single part once the two self tappers are released from underneath.

This method means you can leave the powered trailer connected during the modifications.

 

The above shows the alterations carried out to the chassis block and PCB.

 

A. Relieved metal behind the cast horn-guides to give clearance for decoder & insulation. I used a course file but made sure there was enough material remaining to retain the horn-block/bearing in position.

 

B. Removed hatched area"B" from Horizontal Printed Circuit board retaining spigot leaving original PCB locating pin in position.

 

C. Drilled and tapped hole for 16BA setscrew in remainder of spigot.

 

D. Drilled and countersink PCB 16BA clearance.

 

E. Made up DCC 6 pin socket. I can't remember the supplier of the socket but they are generally available.

The six pin plug was attached to the socket temporarily to act as a heat sink and hold the socket into a large splodge of blue-tac whilst I soldered on the wires.

 

F.

With the capacitors and inductors removed from the PCB (Compare my pic here) the wires from the NEM651 socket were attached to the PCB as shown in the above illustration.

 

 

So with all that done. everything was reassembled but without the decoder. The area were the decoder sits was lined with insulating tape, then the decoder fitted Leaving things looking like this.

 

 

From below every thing looks pretty much as it was; apart from the 16BA setscew replacing the now redundant central self tapper.

 

The trolly was powered up using JMRI via a Sprog II and this showed up a problem that was unrelated to the decoder installation and hadn't manifested itself when "running in" on DC using a rolling road. Once this problem was rectified, the trolley was smooth and responsive using the default decoder definitions.

 

I had to use JMRI's DCZ76z decoder file as there is no DCZ77z in their library at present and will eventually have a bit play about with some of the settings following Nigel Cliffe's guidance as set out in this document.

 

http://www.2mm.org.uk/articles/CT-decoders.htm

 

I hope all the above is understandable?

 

Next up is seeing what's involved in converting the wheel sets to EM before trying to work out if a P4 conversion is viable using those original wheels

 

P

Edited December 13, 2016 by Porcy Mane

[£1.38]

Thanks for that description. I will find it very useful. Good luck with your conversion to a wider gauge, which I would also like to try at some stage. Do you know what diameter the axles are?

[PhilJ W]

Just a little thought about these models. My understanding is they were fitted with a variety of engines of different manufacture. Most were fitted with a Ford or Morris side valve engine but other engines were also used. Someone mentioned the JAP engine but as this was air cooled it is not the version represented by the model as the model has a radiator for a water cooled engine. Some of the later ones might even have been fitted with a diesel engine.

[Tony_S]

Porcy Mane.

Thank you for your description. I am about to have a go too though I haven't unboxed the trolley yet. I was a bit concerned that there may have been some direct connection from the wheels on the motor unit to the motor but from your photos it would appear not. My decoder is in the post from the very nice people at Coastal DCC.

Tony

[The Stationmaster]

Just a little thought about these models. My understanding is they were fitted with a variety of engines of different manufacture. Most were fitted with a Ford or Morris side valve engine but other engines were also used. Someone mentioned the JAP engine but as this was air cooled it is not the version represented by the model as the model has a radiator for a water cooled engine. Some of the later ones might even have been fitted with a diesel engine.

 

I spent a fair part of a day on one on the then recently closed Bridport branch and it had a Ford sv engine - noisy beggar when you were sitting next to it but I doubt if you'd have heard it from more than a hundred yards or away from the line and you wouldn't have noticed it all among road traffic noises.  

 

Fortunately it didn't have a whopping great DCC chip in the roof so we could actually sit upright in it  (didn't have a  DCC chip in the trailer either as that was a flat bed)  but despite the lack of such a chip it still worked alright.

[walrus]

In the spirit of St Trinians, combined with the time of year, here's a little seasonal silliness.....

 

 

Well that's another way to hide a DCC chip.....

[Roy Langridge]

Well that's another way to hide a DCC chip.....

 

Don't want to think about where he inserted it...

 

Roy

[Porcy Mane]

Thanks for that description. I will find it very useful. Good luck with your conversion to a wider gauge, which I would also like to try at some stage. Do you know what diameter the axles are?

 1 .5 mm but I suspect the ends are stepped down to 1 mm.

Edited December 13, 2016 by Porcy Mane

[Roy Langridge]

 1 .5 mm but I suspect the ends are stepped down to 1 mm.

 

Looking at the photos I think the insulation is in the wheel, not on the axle?

 

If so, for P4, would replacement axles that are stepped twice work or would they foul the chassis? What I am considering is, say 1.8mm in the centre to keep the wheel centred inside the bearings, 1.5mm through the bearings and then whatever diameter is needed in the wheel?

 

Roy

Edited December 13, 2016 by Roy Langridge

[Porcy Mane]

Looking at the photos I think the insulation is in the wheel, not on the axle?

 

Correct. An insulating top hat.

 

 

 

If so, for P4, would replacement axels that are stepped twice work or would they foul the chassis? What I am considering is, say 1.8mm in the centre to keep the wheel centred inside the bearings, 1.5mm through the bearings and then whatever diameter is needed in the wheel?

 

 

Sounds like a good plan.

Without measuring, there appears to be enough clearance to do this. The driven trailer is a different design to the trolley. The axles run through "half tubes" cast into the mazak? casting.

You may need to take into consideration the final drive cog on the driven axle, This axle is stepped up to 1.6mm dia in the area where the cog is located. The diameter is then increased further by straight knurling to provide the friction fit for the cog.

 

One thing I'm considering doing is slightly countersinking the bearings slightly to reduce the bearing surface to hopefully reduce rolling resistance. I've noticed on mine that when propelling the driven car tries to raise the un-driven car causing its axle nearest the coupling to lose rail contact. This might be a problem for P4 flanges. Scraping the inside of the "hornguides" to allow a small amount of up and down movement might be beneficial and there seems to be a couple of places where some lead foil could be added.

 

All this mucking about makes me appreciate why the Bachmann designers/engineers have done things the way they have.

Edited December 13, 2016 by Porcy Mane