The London Festival of Railway Modelling 2014 - March 22/23

[PhilJ W]

I went with two friends by road yesterday and the traffic was less than we experience on Sunday last year.  As two of us have mobility issues, and a Blue Badge, we headed for the main car park at about 10.00 only to be told it was full by the guy on duty but we had to be let in to turn-around.  At that point one of his colleagues directed us to park close to the building - result.   We also got a lift to the main entrance in an extended golf buggy with a friendly member of the Ally Pally staff and took advantage of his services when we returned to the car.

 

I had hoped to get some of the bits and pieces I needed from the smaller traders but some were absent.

 

The lack of Hornby seemed the general discussion but it was good to bump into Simon Kohler for a brief natter and, as always, his enthusiasm is very evident.

 

I am not sure whether I would go next year given the parking issue.

There was a similar situation last year. We were in a 17 seat minibus including a couple of blue card holders. Our driver was allowed to take the minibus right up to the entrance to drop off the passengers and then park it in an area not to far away, and this was reversed when it was time to leave.

[daveymills]

If I had gone, RS Tower and Sweethome Alabama would have been the stand-out layouts for me. Both capture their modelled areas quite spectacularly, and are two of the best operated layouts on the circuit with regard to the accuracy of movements and paperwork generated to run the layouts. But I'm guessing most visitors would have walked straight by them because they weren't British....

 

agree, i have never had, nor probably will ever have an interest in modelling US - yes these layouts are truly fascinating

[Ravenser]

Having had a second look today , my impression of the layouts is that the standard was high but that there were virtually all small to medium sized layouts. (This may be the first time Herculaneum Dock has been described as a medium sized layout - but in that venue it is)  There was no big show-stopper continous run layout like Gresley Beat - and the MRC weren't fielding a big layout either - which they have generally done in previous years. The big layout on display was RS Tower + Freemo - a very different animal, and US outline isn't my taste . I would however add that the standard of modelling on it was very crisp and clean - and I suspect closer to what the Yanks themselves aim at than we generally see with US outline. It is a system , and we don't see many of those here, especially at shows  (A side comment on  anachronism- the big 7mm Parcels layout had a grubby Black 5 near a blue TOPS numbered 20 - and I was unconfortable . The blue/grey BG behind the Black 5 - no problem, perfectly authentic, and I probably wouldn't have felt anything wrong if the 20 had had a D-number. I was much less uncomfortable watching a black Pennsy kettle with 9 heavyweight cars passing a rake of intermodal piggyback cars, though that's a much bigger anachronism)

 

Some photos, though a number of posters have expressed the view these aren't worth seeing...

 

New Bryford - some very fine and well observed structure work

 

Holbeach Estate Railway (as a Yellowbelly I'm perhaps prejudiced in favour of the subject - it just needs the board to extend about 10' further back, dead flat and green )

 

Georgemas Junct

 

St Denys

 

Ireland in S (MGW)

 

Australian N gauge

 

Puttnam

[Pacific231G]

I can't quite put my finger on why but I did find this year's show a bit unbalanced with something missing. There were enough interesting layouts to make it worth going even if I hadn't been helping to staff our society stand but AP is only about half an hour from me in West London and I think I'd have been disappointed if I'd driven for a couple of hours to get there. This should be one of if not the major national show but this year seemed to fall well short of that.  I wasn't worried by the lack of a large centrepiece layout- they don't really float my boat anyway-  and I found several layouts such as Bishopsmead interesting and in the afternoon on Sunday the crowds were thin enough to allow for conversation with the builders. 

 

I would like to thank Phil Parker for his excellent presentation on Edgeworth and he was very helpful with further questions afterwards. Phil's account of his own layout history was educational but it was interesting that on a show of hands only half the audience had or were building an actual layout. Given that the audience for this presentation would have been by definition people with at least some interest in layout building, this did leave  me wondering how the other half or more are relating to the hobby. 

[BanburyKev]

We had a very good weekend on Sabins End. Lots of positive comments about 3mm scale and TT gauge. Had seven invitations for future shows as well.

[PhilJ W]

Good video (not mine) of some of the layouts at the show:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3XqbHRza2w

Great film, I'd like to see Herculaneum Dock in the flesh. The shunting on 'Overlord' looked a bit fast.

[andytrains]

I was manning the EM Gauge Society stand yesterday.

Somebody dropped a set of HMRS Transfers near the stand.

If they are yours contact me with details of what they are and I will get them to you.

[Mike Arnold]

Having had a second look today , my impression of the layouts is that the standard was high but that there were virtually all small to medium sized layouts. (This may be the first time Herculaneum Dock has been described as a medium sized layout - but in that venue it is)  There was no big show-stopper continous run layout like Gresley Beat - and the MRC weren't fielding a big layout either - which they have generally done in previous years. The big layout on display was RS Tower + Freemo - a very different animal, and US outline isn't my taste . I would however add that the standard of modelling on it was very crisp and clean - and I suspect closer to what the Yanks themselves aim at than we generally see with US outline. It is a system , and we don't see many of those here, especially at shows  (A side comment on  anachronism- the big 7mm Parcels layout had a grubby Black 5 near a blue TOPS numbered 20 - and I was unconfortable . The blue/grey BG behind the Black 5 - no problem, perfectly authentic, and I probably wouldn't have felt anything wrong if the 20 had had a D-number. I was much less uncomfortable watching a black Pennsy kettle with 9 heavyweight cars passing a rake of intermodal piggyback cars, though that's a much bigger anachronism)

 

Some photos, though a number of posters have expressed the view these aren't worth seeing...

 

New Bryford - some very fine and well observed structure work

AllyPally14 (Copy).JPG

 

Holbeach Estate Railway (as a Yellowbelly I'm perhaps prejudiced in favour of the subject - it just needs the board to extend about 10' further back, dead flat and green )

AllyPally14 (4) (Copy).JPG

 

Georgemas Junct

AllyPally14 (2) (Copy).JPG

 

St Denys

AllyPally14 (9) (Copy).JPG

 

Ireland in S (MGW)

AllyPally14 (6) (Copy).JPG

 

Australian N gauge

AllyPally14 - 10 (Copy).jpg

 

Puttnam

Ally Pally14 - 12 (Copy).jpg

Re the black Pennsy loco and coaching set - not anachronistic at all. The layout was  run totally using 2000+ era stock including preserved steam stock that has been run on the main lines with the relevent coaches behind. 

[PGC]

Like some other posters I was planning to go today but decided I would give it a miss, I know many specialist traders have given up attending and even Elieen's Emporium no longer attend due to price of the trade stands, which is on par or not far off from Warley. I had always thought it would be a better show if the tat stalls were removed and a smaller but better quality show staged in just one of the halls.

 

I have a bug bear on the way shows are laid out it seems some shows layouts and trade are just in random places with no thought on their placement in a show and I think this does play a part on how a show feels ranging from feeling like a quality exhibition to a feel of a car boot sale.

 

Slightly off topic I did hear that Warley may relocate to a smaller venue and return to a club exhibition in a few years time when the current management team stands down, although the Warley franchise at the NEC may continue if someone else took it on. I think the problem is these very large venues Ally Pally and the NEC have huge overheads and they have to be funded by high stand rents on traders, which forces out those cottage manufacturers. 

 

Warley has the small trader section for the small cottage industries. Are the rents of these stands lower? It would seem sensible if they are, and if they are, why don't MRC do the same at Ally Pally?

 

Phil

[trisonic]

Probably based on square footage of Stand, surely - not takings? Otherwise the bigger boys will complain of subsidizing their smaller competitors?

 

I've been reading the comments with interest. Is there just too many Exhibitions of Model Railways in England, perhaps? 

 

Best, Pete.

[Crepello]

Must say I felt this was the worst Ally Pally show I've been to. Too many American layouts for my liking (waits for flak!). Thankfully Oldham King Street Parcels was there to keep my attention for quite a time. The venue is looking very tired too, with no recent investment in the toilets--old-style hand dryers and manual taps. Restaurant meal was good as usual.

[roundhouse]

Must say I felt this was the worst Ally Pally show I've been to. Too many American layouts for my liking (waits for flak!). Thankfully Oldham King Street Parcels was there to keep my attention for quite a time. The venue is looking very tired too, with no recent investment in the toilets--old-style hand dryers and manual taps. Restaurant meal was good as usual.

 

There were too many British layouts for me

 

The toilets near the downstairs basement have paper towels which is much better.

[47137]

This is a show of national importance and as such every single layout should show the highest standards of originality, craftsmanship, presentation and operating finesse.

 

It lacked that elusive ‘something’ because it failed to consistently present the sources and fruits of real modelmaking, and instead concentrated too much on ready-made items with sound effects and weathering. The fact that people are writing about the good layouts says it all. The show was too much like today’s mainstream modelling press – an endless repetition of subsidiary topics (static grass, weathering, static grass…), and like the press it made barely a pastiche of the hobby.

 

If next year’s show is to make the grade it must include better layouts throughout and these need to show off the skills of model makers. It must also have a pricing structure to facilitate the attendance by the specialist trade too. I’d like to see some assurances to this effect from Warners, on this forum, before I go to any of their shows again.

 

- Richard. (Very unhappy)

[Colin]

I went on Sunday (so no Bachmann scrum) and treated the show more or less as a social event, it was nice to catch up with a few people I don't see so often.

Personally I was glad to see more smaller layouts as I'm not a fan of giant tailchasers - the 2mm fine scale Lambourn BLT was just lovely and the running was the best advert I've seen for 2mm in ages. I also liked Georgemas Junction, Angel Bank, Sweethome Alabama and Wheal Elizabeth in particular - all fine layouts. Also full marks to the Dublo 3-rail crew for the first end-to-end HD layout I've ever seen! It looked great fun.

Trader support seemed a bit patchy - specialists such as Comet, Dart Castings, 247 or Branchlines weren't there so I was unable to stock up on kits and bits -  a bit frustrating.

I went away wishing there had been more to see; slightly disappointed overall.

[bbishop]

I enjoyed the RMWeb meet up, although we were a bit light on numbers. Maybe the bar might have been a better location, although the pint I had later on was pretty dire. The evening festivities with Roundhouse et al were far better lubricated, although my input was limited as I was chauffeuring our curate to Sunday mass.

 

There is a photograph of the exhibition on page 4 of today's Grauniad, perfectly fair although they might have chosen a less grumpy individual.

 

And so to the show itself. The alarm bells should start ringing when one of the most successful exhibition managers doesn't think it worthwhile attending. There were some very good layouts, but other than New Bryford and Michaelerplatz (sic), I had seen them before. I want to see layouts that I haven't seen before; in which case St Albans or Railex, although further afield, would be better options. The Davids take risks, and occasionally a layout hasn't developed as far as hoped, but better the occasional dud than a menu of over exposed layouts. What is the target audience. I think it is people that go to one or two shows a year, happy to spend nine minutes in front of each layout and buy tat in the remaining hour. It isn't for the dedicated enthusiast.

 

Bill

[edcayton]

I couldn't go to the show this year or last-bought the ticket last year and had the heart attack and couldn't go. At present there is no way I could walk from the car park to the show, go round the show a couple of times and then back to the car.

 

I've always liked this show. I think the venue is great, and have seen some superb layouts here. It's a great shame that so many people seem to have been disappointed this year. Warners have got Coventry  and Peterborough to come, we'll have to see what they are like.

 

Trisonic Pete's point about the number of shows is well made, however I think that I'll only be able to do smaller shows in future, so I hope the local shows survive.

 

Ed

[roundhouse]

Its amazing as to how many people find Ally Pally disappointing each year and the layouts not up to their standards yet I see more faces that I recognize at this show than any other each year we are there.

 

Its a big venue that dictates a large fee to hire so stand rents are going to be higher than at smaller regional shows.

 

Any layout that comes any distance is going to want accommodation for their operators and that isn't going to be cheap even in the outer reaches of London. Add to that  it takes many months if not years to build, so you can't just have a show full of new layouts.

 

I am very conscious that sometimes some of my layouts go out to many shows thus causing over exposure but if I only did a handful of shows with a particular layout hen I probably wouldn't have built it to take to shows.

 

The show cant be that mundane each year otherwise it would have less and less visitors and would no longer be viable.

 

Its a huge task to organize and I fully support the MRC and all those others  that put the effort in to hold the show.

 

There were a fair few American layouts this year but There were always a large crowd watching them when I went past except towards closing where everything goes quiet.. Despite all the foreign outline layouts put together, the British outline layouts by far outnumbered all of these put together (which is only to be expected).

 

Look forward to next years show where we will be operating on a British layout. Its not done many shows yet (two) and only has a few between now and next March but

unfortunately some will have seen it before!!

 

Ian

[Glorious NSE]

For the record, I make it 11.6% American layouts, probably marginally higher than average, but hardly a sign of dominance.

[TheSignalEngineer]

 

I've been reading the comments with interest. Is there just too many Exhibitions of Model Railways in England, perhaps? 

 

Best, Pete.

Probably a valid point there Pete. In the 4 weekends before AP there have been 5 exhibitions (2 attended) and at least as many Toy Fairs in my normal travelling zone. In April there are 6 shows and 6 fairs within a one hour drive, plus York which is just beyond that. 

[AndrewC]

Well despite the gloom merchants and the idiots in the parking lot, I had a great time yesterday. (Sunday) I'd never describe a layout as a dud. Sure some are better presented and constructed than others. Its to be expected. This is a general show and not a specific finescale exhibition. A good variety of skill levels, scales, and modelling subjects are key to a good rounded exhibition. We all learn and improve with time. Not everyone builds a portable Pendon with their first attempt. Its an old argument but it stands true. Some people get more inspiration from a less than perfect layout than from a masterpiece. Its seen as an achievable goal.

 

For those bemoaning the lack of marquee layouts this year, perhaps its down to the ever rising cost of building, transporting, and maintaining such layouts. Time and space cost £££. Something that is in short supply for many these days. Far more economical to book 3 or 4 small layouts that can be transported in a mid sized car or people carrier with 2 or 3 operators each, than to book a behemoth that needs truck rentals and a dozen or more operators.  There is still a good selection of such layouts but many have been seen at Ally Pally before. No doubt the Moaning Myrtles that whinged about lack of showcase layouts would be the first to moan about having seen the same showcase layout several times previously. So what is the answer? Larger marquee layouts that take longer to build and subsequently the builders want to keep it on the circuit longer, or smaller faster to build "chain saw" layouts which would have a much shorter exhibition lifespan?

 

I think the North American modular layouts like last year's Essex Belt Lines from the Thamesiders and RS Tower + modules this year will become the way to go if exhibitions and punters want big layouts. More flexible, cheaper to transport, (usually) and can, if done right be different for every exhibition.

British modellers have always eschewed modular layouts, preferring a unified scenic appearance. Maybe now is the time for a rethink on that. Anyone for a full length HST blasting along a 90' modular layout?  

 

soap box returned to the shed.

[railroadbill]

Went on Sunday with Mrs Bill and we both had a good time. Traffic for us was easier than previous years, parking always good at Alley Pally, short queue to get in, thought programme was useful in working out viewing strategy.   Just seemed fewer people this year, but I've always been on a Saturday before.  Perhaps the aisles were wider as well but it appeared easier for people on mobility scooters or in wheel chairs to get around and approach layouts. And I didn't see any "rucksack collision" incidents either [see Warley thread :-) ] 

 

Layouts: pleased to see Woolacombe Bay in the flesh, RS tower which was big enough to run very long trains that therefore looked American, and also showed the Freemo approach working well.  Liked Dawes Creek with n gauge Vline trains, Holbeach estates which had very short wheelbase 009 locos running, Gamle Carlsberg with excellent detail, and the enormous Hornby Dublo 3 rail set up. So there was a good spread of different scales, standards, eras, layout sizes.  And Herculanem Dock and the TT layout etc. etc. 

 

In fact I could just list everything, because there was something of interest in them all, and I came away with lots of ideas.  I also felt that there was often a strong story behind each layout, a sense of place and purpose, that engaged with the viewer.  Also there was always someone on each layout very happy to talk about it or answer specific questions, so a very friendly show we thought.

 

The layout with the biggest crowd was the excellent Overlord and we deliberately came back later on for a long long look at it.  Had a good chat about marine modelling as well and was able to swap stories about a late friend who had been in that operation, and learnt some crucial information about a particular loco he'd been involved with. So got a lot out of this exhibition!

 

 

 

Bought 2 cans of my favourite varnish and some spares for obsolete coaches. Mrs Bill has spotted a led equiped Christmas tree model for our "round the Christmas tree" layout  so we were both happy.  And I got to meet Andy Y.

 

Cheers,

Bill

[Michael Delamar]

I was there as an exhibitor on Angelbank and had a really enjoyable time, we had lots of interest and nice comments.

 

I was happy to grab a few Bachmann 4fs at a bargain price just before the show opened, yes I know people say they may be a risk as they are sold as seen but a bargain for me as ill be modifying them so not worried about conditions of box etc.

 

my favorite exhibit was the great train robbery one, really well presented. I also liked the modern image 7mm scottish layout, the stock was excellent, nice to see in 7mm.

 

It seems to me it is more of a family "dad and lad" type of show for the people of London and that to me is a good thing to get people interested, there are enough specialist scale shows throughout the year.

[justin1985]

This year I was both stewarding, and helping out with operating Lambourn. As a volunteer it was both a very long weekend, and very hard work, especially when it came to clearing the barriers and tables etc at the end of the day. Still, I felt it was a good show, and featured some excellent modelling! Some criticisms here seem (as usual) slightly unfair. 

 

Warley has the small trader section for the small cottage industries. Are the rents of these stands lower? It would seem sensible if they are, and if they are, why don't MRC do the same at Ally Pally?

 

Phil

 

I'm just a common or garden MRC member, with no involvement in the organisation or finances, but I understand that this IS the case. Certainly from discussion with one trader in the west hall (specialist area), presuming I understood him correctly, there had been a specialist trader discount for the past few years. Nonetheless, ALL prices have been creeping up, and some specialists have had to drop out. London Road Models was mentioned as having stopped coming for this reason.

 

Costs are inevitably high, for what is a supremely accessible location with very high maintenance costs to be covered (exhibition space in London is increasingly marginal - just look at Boris' plans to replace Earl's Court with more buy-to-leave flats, with no replacement).  The last few years have seen the official security duties pass to venue staff (SiA approved staff etc) so costs are increasing in all directions. 

 

This is a show of national importance and as such every single layout should show the highest standards of originality, craftsmanship, presentation and operating finesse.

 

It lacked that elusive ‘something’ because it failed to consistently present the sources and fruits of real modelmaking, and instead concentrated too much on ready-made items with sound effects and weathering. The fact that people are writing about the good layouts says it all. The show was too much like today’s mainstream modelling press – an endless repetition of subsidiary topics (static grass, weathering, static grass…), and like the press it made barely a pastiche of the hobby.

 

If next year’s show is to make the grade it must include better layouts throughout and these need to show off the skills of model makers. It must also have a pricing structure to facilitate the attendance by the specialist trade too. I’d like to see some assurances to this effect from Warners, on this forum, before I go to any of their shows again.

 

- Richard. (Very unhappy)

 

 

Another perspective, from someone living in London, is that the exhibition is increasingly the ONLY window for the model railway trade, certainly other than the more remote suburbs. Ally Pally can't afford to be a specialist show for finescale orientated modellers (whatever that means) but it really does have to do its best to be all things to all men. And just as important as specialist retailers are, its equally important for London modellers to have a few big retailers selling PECO track at respectable prices, Woodland Scenics etc., as there simply isn't anywhere else to buy the basics without shopping online!

 

As a steward, I can certainly report that a LOT of the general public and families were very disappointed by the absence of the Hornby Roadshow stand, whatever we might think. 

 

I certainly disagree that the modelling on display was unduly dominated by ready to run\plonk. Of course there was some "sameyness" (although the sound effects that I noticed were mainly coming from the O and G gauge models), but there was also some real stand out modelling, in my book. Aside from Lambourn (my bias) I felt that St Denys, which I had not seen before at all, was a real standout layout - excellent weathered kit built and detailed N gauge stock, wonderfully detailed scratch built buildings (those bridges!) and most importantly a sense of place. Sweet Home Alabama was equally evocative to my eyes, despite American HO being far from "my thing" (and again first time I've seen it in the flesh). 

 

On "over exposed layouts", perhaps its worth remembering that it is only the real hardcore of enthusiasts who are likely to visit both the northern circuit of exhibitions, and Ally Pally. As several people have pointed out, this is the only BIG exhibition south of Coventry. I would imagine a very high proportion of the 12,000 or so punters can't make it to any of the northern exhibitions, with the possible exception of Warley. 

 

I went on Sunday (so no Bachmann scrum) and treated the show more or less as a social event, it was nice to catch up with a few people I don't see so often.

Personally I was glad to see more smaller layouts as I'm not a fan of giant tailchasers - the 2mm fine scale Lambourn BLT was just lovely and the running was the best advert I've seen for 2mm in ages. I also liked Georgemas Junction, Angel Bank, Sweethome Alabama and Wheal Elizabeth in particular - all fine layouts. Also full marks to the Dublo 3-rail crew for the first end-to-end HD layout I've ever seen! It looked great fun.

Trader support seemed a bit patchy - specialists such as Comet, Dart Castings, 247 or Branchlines weren't there so I was unable to stock up on kits and bits -  a bit frustrating.

I went away wishing there had been more to see; slightly disappointed overall.

 

Thanks for the comments on Lambourn. Richard has done a great job of reviving this 30 year old layout, and its original owner even showed up and operated for an hour or so on the Sunday. The running wasn't always perfect - but mainly because of my amateurish operating! Once I had learned to remember which routes shorted which others etc., it was a joy to operate, and really shows off the advantages of 2FS track standards!

 

Justin 

[Kenton]

 

Is there just too many Exhibitions of Model Railways in England, perhaps?

AFAIC the answer is definitely No. I avoid Ally Pally just like Warley as IMO it lost its appeal years ago. Glad to see nothing has changed and I'm not missing anything.

 

There is definitely something in the air with the large commercial shows that seems to take them outside the hobby. The apparent concentration on RTR box shifter and usually the bigger club layouts - all the big shows except the "society" specials seem to be going this way.

 

The small trader used to turn up at shows to make themselves known or make a new release known, these days if they do not sell a stall full they cannot begin to cover the trade stand charge and cost of travel and manning the stall. What was seen as an opportunity to meet and greet your customers, gaining feedback and eliciting ideas and interest for the next development has gone.

 

Everything now is online and at the same time remote. How many shows can you go to to buy wheels and all the other essential bits? Even the tools suppliers seem to go with masses of pre-packaged, gift-wrapped, inferior tat from China. What happened to the boxes of bits under the stalls with all-sorts of pot luck bargains for a few pence? They now seem to be pre-sorted and individually over-priced in polybags.

 

It is a long time passing between shows when you cannot travel (or consider it a waste of time to bother travelling) to the big remote commercial ones.

[bbishop]

Andrew,

 

The first time I saw Charwelton at a show, the scenery was 50% plywood. So in that sense, it was a bit of a dud, but I still spent an hour watching the trains go by. I'm prepared for an exhibition manager to take a risk and make a mistake: as an exhibition manager I was prepared to book on the basis of previous work and in one instance came a serious cropper. But if the majority of Ally Pally punters attend a couple of exhibitions a year, then I agree they will want to see the finished product.

 

I'm actually don't think there should be a showstopper, because it would be very crowded in front of it. Better that there are a number of good quality layouts. I was happy with the quality of the layouts, my issue (and maybe that of other RMWebbers) was that I'd seen most of them before. I think Ian was alluding to Star Lane: I haven't seen it yet so will spend a good time in front of it next year, probably a complete run through of the sequence.

 

The main reason that I went to Ally Pally was for the crack with friends. It certainly wasn't for the trade, I spent £22-15 on a tinlet of SECR wagon brown, Slaters 7mm wagon wheels and some lights for my beer garden.

 

My ramblings are trying to distil the ripples of dissatisfaction that are appearing on RMWeb. Your average punter will have been completely satisfied. Personally, I expect to get more satisfaction from Nescot next month.

 

Bill