edcayton Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Probably just bunching! I was surprised in the morning about how few of the passengers in the queue for the courtesy bus didn't get on the W3 at Wood Green, I would suggest the majority would have a free pass, and if they had done so, it would have freed capacity on the shuttle bus for the rest of us - we trundled past Ally Pally station without stopping because we were already loaded to the gunnels and this was a full hour after the show opened. One of the reasons I didn't stick around until last knocking was a certainty that the bus would be full if I left it any later, although as I was already fairly close to the daily Oyster price cap, I had decided that if a W3 turned up first I would travel on that, but as it happened a not-full shuttle bus was just about to depart and I stepped straight on. Jon. and people seriously suggest that public transport is a good option for getting to the show? Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted March 25, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 25, 2014 It was a very pleasant walk down the hill on Saturday evening to Alexandra Palace station - avoided the bus queues. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I want spectacle, something a bit special. It might be a layout with a viaduct four feet high, or HS2 in Lego, or a complete railway system without a fiddle yard. <Waves> - Whilst we had staging for our big trains on the roundy bit, that was pretty much what we did on the rest of it... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 25, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 25, 2014 Probably just bunching! I was surprised in the morning about how few of the passengers in the queue for the courtesy bus didn't get on the W3 at Wood Green, I would suggest the majority would have a free pass, and if they had done so, it would have freed capacity on the shuttle bus for the rest of us - we trundled past Ally Pally station without stopping because we were already loaded to the gunnels and this was a full hour after the show opened. One of the reasons I didn't stick around until last knocking was a certainty that the bus would be full if I left it any later, although as I was already fairly close to the daily Oyster price cap, I had decided that if a W3 turned up first I would travel on that, but as it happened a not-full shuttle bus was just about to depart and I stepped straight on. Jon. If they were bunching they were doing it remarkably consistently and maintaining their booked service interval at the same time, and they were still doing it in the early afternoon when loadings had tailed off. The people boarding seemed to have a variety of tickets and of course some - as in the case of Dr Station Cat travelling with me - had a One Day Travelcard which had the advantage of covering all four of the trains and 'buses we used to get to/from Ally Pally. The shuttle 'bus took a small part of the queue we were in at Ally Pally station - the rest of us didn't join the scrum to get aboard but waited for the W3 as they were very frequent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Myself and Jaz enjoyed the show. Thank-you to all who made it an enjoyable day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold mcowgill Posted March 25, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 25, 2014 and people seriously suggest that public transport is a good option for getting to the show? Ed I always use the W3 from/to Finsbury Park, it's never been particularly busy with quick links straight onto both the Underground and FCC. Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 25, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 25, 2014 and people seriously suggest that public transport is a good option for getting to the show? Ed Sorry Ed - missed this one. Why shouldn't public transport be a good option - it's certainly better than driving to Ally Pally (I did it once, on a Sunday, and that was quite enough thank you). On Saturday we had a pretty good trip 08.17 from Reading, and even the Circle Line/H&S was working working quite well, so time to buy a bun at KX, then forward on the 0926 to Ally Pally and a few minutes wait before going up the hill on the W3. Not necessarily the easiest journey in the world for us as it involved two changes at large London stations whereas the Warley show is a through train from Reading for me but trains and 'buses are frequent to get you to Ally Pally and there is a choice of routes (and it all worked last year despite the snow). Cost of a One day Travelcard from Reading was £22, and of course could have been used elsewhere in London later in the day had we been so inclined. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Mike Posted March 25, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 25, 2014 Despite all the views stated 'for' or 'against' this year's show, you simply have to ask yourself one question, "Am I getting value for money?" At £11 a throw, and presumably more next year, my personal answer is no. Fair enough - that is your opinion. I would disagree (even if the show had been much worse), looking at the prices of other model railway shows you might say that £11 was a bit steep, but as soon as you look beyond that to any other form of entertainment then £11 doesn't look unreasonable at all. Music, theatre or sport will easily cost you at least £11 (and often much more!) for less time. So perspective is important. Hiring large venues and paying the expenses to fill the space with layouts and demos is not cheap! Cheers, Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I would agree that perspective is important - just down the road for example, it can cost you anywhere from £26 to £126 (plus fees) for a couple of hours of "entertainment"... http://www.arsenal.com/tickets/non-member-ticket-prices Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewC Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Despite all the views stated 'for' or 'against' this year's show, you simply have to ask yourself one question, "Am I getting value for money?" At £11 a throw, and presumably more next year, my personal answer is no. Everyone will have a different opinion of what the perceive as value for money. £11 sounds like quite a bit of cash just to wander around a large hall getting whacked by smelly tramps and their rucksacks. <tongue in cheek> If you start to properly deconstruct the admission into what you actually get at a show like this, then it really is a bargain. Did you take advantage of the clinics? How much is a 1 to 1 for half an hour with an expert worth? Do your shopping. Last year I saved enough in shipping and postal charges by picking things up to pay for the admission twice over. This year I had to cut my visit short but it still worked out to less than £4/h had I paid full price. You can't do much these days for £4/h. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted March 25, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 25, 2014 it's certainly better than driving to Ally Pally Wholeheartedly agree with this, a bunch of us went to a motorcycle show once, all in one campervan, it was hopeless, by the time we drove down from Notts, found somewhere to park then walked to the venue is was almost time to turn round and go home - never again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andytrains Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 30 mins by car or 90 mins on public transport? It's a no brainer. And I only live ten miles away! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giles Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 One of the significant reasons I go to shows nowadays is to buy the basic items such as brass rod, flux, sheet, paint, transfers, tools, wheels, axles etc. that I used to be able to buy from my local (now non-existent) model shop. These goods are so often supplied by the smaller trader. However particularly in the larger shows, there is a tendency for these traders to be terminally discouraged by high stand fees. In my personal opinion, they are as much an attraction to me as the layouts, and I would wish to see them nurtured and encouraged by affordable rates -even if it means me paying a little extra at the door. I find at so many large shows, I just walk past so many trade stands selling (apparently) similar, high-value goods, and I struggle to find the basics. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sub39h Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Despite all the views stated 'for' or 'against' this year's show, you simply have to ask yourself one question, "Am I getting value for money?" At £11 a throw, and presumably more next year, my personal answer is no. Will I go again next year? Very unlikely. Terry I didn't go this year but I went last year. I made up the entry price on what I saved buying things at show prices. I also got some ideas and advice that may have cost me some time later. Even without this, can you tell me what else you would do to entertain yourself for a whole day for £11? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted March 25, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 25, 2014 Even without this, can you tell me what else you would do to entertain yourself for a whole day for £11? A bottle of Tesco's finest vodka? Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyA Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 30 mins by car or 90 mins on public transport? I was on a stand so I was not travelling at the same time as everyone else. However, Friday and Saturday evenings, it took me over two hours to do the 26 mile journey home. Thank goodness Sunday evening was only just over one hour. When I come as a visitor next year, and I plan to come, it will be by public transport with a walk up the hill. Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 It helps if you know where the local bottle necks are. I left about 5 on Friday and once through Muswell Hill the next jam was in Finchley to get on the Barnet by pass only held up for a very short while. Left about 5:30 on Saturday, kept away from the North Circular no jams. Left Sunday about the same time, no hold ups at all Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PhilH Posted March 25, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 25, 2014 If stand space is sold on square footage (I don't know if it is) perhaps smaller traders, the ones who usually make shows worth going to, should get together and form a co-operative to rent a bigger stand at the big shows.Might work......Might not...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted March 25, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 25, 2014 Interesting idea n scale co-op HO co - op Etc. The downside is that they might be competitors but is worth consideration. Even a discounted rate for small traders but those that just cross the threshold then there's a problem. There are still a large number of small specialist traders at this show. Do bear in mind that at many smaller shows you still can't buy paint glue detail bits track etc. as the trade rent might be a lot less but the potential sales are a lot lower. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 If stand space is sold on square footage (I don't know if it is) perhaps smaller traders, the ones who usually make shows worth going to, should get together and form a co-operative to rent a bigger stand at the big shows. Might work...... Might not...... Unless there is a discount for larger stands, the cost of one large stand would still be the same as that for six smaller stands covering the same area....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Although there was no 'star' layout this year, I found plenty of interest and thought the show was well worth going to. For the first time, I went on Sunday and drove there, with no hold-ups on the way there and not much delay coming back via a different route. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jol Wilkinson Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 One of the significant reasons I go to shows nowadays is to buy the basic items such as brass rod, flux, sheet, paint, transfers, tools, wheels, axles etc. that I used to be able to buy from my local (now non-existent) model shop. These goods are so often supplied by the smaller trader. However particularly in the larger shows, there is a tendency for these traders to be terminally discouraged by high stand fees. In my personal opinion, they are as much an attraction to me as the layouts, and I would wish to see them nurtured and encouraged by affordable rates -even if it means me paying a little extra at the door. I find at so many large shows, I just walk past so many trade stands selling (apparently) similar, high-value goods, and I struggle to find the basics. A trader also has to consider the visitor profile of shows. People who are attracted by the RTR retailers are not very likely to be interested in etched kits for signals, horseboxes, locos, etc. and wouldn't have much interest in DIY items in general. So a trader has to identify which shows will provide both an adequate return as well as providing as much visibility as possible. "General" shows just don't work for the specialist as well as the "scale" society shows while these probably wouldn't support many RTR retailers. The fact that fewer specialist traders are attending AP and similar large exhibitions is just an indication of insufficient sales opportunity at such a show. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andytrains Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I was on a stand so I was not travelling at the same time as everyone else. However, Friday and Saturday evenings, it took me over two hours to do the 26 mile journey home. Thank goodness Sunday evening was only just over one hour. When I come as a visitor next year, and I plan to come, it will be by public transport with a walk up the hill. Tony Tony. I was also on a Demo Stand. (EM Society). Andy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Hiring large halls may not be cheap, but that isn't my problem! That's the show organiser's problem. My concern is the cost to me. If I personally feel that I'm not getting value for money, I won't attend again. If you feel that you are getting good value then it is your choice to attend. Judging by the number of negative comments on this thread, I suspect that a lot of people won't bother next year. Terry Since you've taken the username of someone who was renowned for making railways work on a shoestring budget, perhaps you could tell us how much the organisers should have charged, and how you can deliver the same quality of show for the reduced price...? I'd be curious to know, since I believe that prestigious events such as the major show in a capital city or at a conveniently located exhibition centre ought to be charging more. If you look at the ticket prices for comparable events at similar locations or even what that amount will buy you* within the hobby, it's a bargain..... (* £11 probably equates to the secondhand price of a couple of crappy coaches or wagons that I could probably find at the back of the cupboard, that I forgot I had and don't need anyway...) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete 75C Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Judging by the number of negative comments on this thread, I suspect that a lot of people won't bother next year. ...and I'm sure that shortfall will be made up by those punters who (like me) have never been before but are planning to next year. The negative post-show comments that always appear after any show don't to a damn thing to put me off because we're all different and have our own set of standards and expectations. What doesn't rock your boat will probably delight somebody else. I take consolation from the fact that amongst all the negativity, RMWeb is still a reasonably happy place to spend some time and hoover up advice etc. If it wasn't, I'd have given up playing with trains ages ago. Each to their own, and that's exactly the way it should be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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