40F Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 It does seem to be if that people aren`t moaning thay ain`t happy. You can only invite the layouts that are available and don`t forget that just because you don`t model XYZ this doesn`t mean no one else does. All in all a good exhibition Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 I think I would have prefered to see all the demo's in the side hall, Steve Banks and DEMU were rather lost out in the main hall. Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250BOB Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 It does seem to be if that people aren`t moaning thay ain`t happy. You can only invite the layouts that are available and don`t forget that just because you don`t model XYZ this doesn`t mean no one else does. All in all a good exhibition I certainly dont want it to sound like moaning.......but if we dont give honest opinions, then how will the exhibition team, who work hard, know what to put on so that the majority will find the exhibition of a high quality, and make people want to come back. They have a difficult job satisfying everyone..............but I do think a general theme of " I've been to better", is coming across from more folk than usual. You will always get "moaners"....what is required are honest opinions.....and I'm sure thats what the BRM team want too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted March 24, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 24, 2014 Ed I liked the idea in the west hall for the kids We were in the a West Hall!!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Trainshed Terry Posted March 24, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 24, 2014 We were in the a West Hall!!!!! Big kids Terry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted March 24, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 24, 2014 Big toys!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 I dont think that over 1 in 10 American layouts represents the UK modelling scene.........or does it.? I don't find it implausible, personally speaking. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Bigcheeseplant Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 I have not seen as much negative feedback on a major show for quite a while. I must admit feedback for any show is always interesting to find out what people like dislike etc. Ally Pally is organised by Warmers who as you know they own RMWeb although the layouts are booked by The Model Railway Club (mostly Nick Freezer) who I understand get a cut due to providing stewards etc. I think numbers where down last year due to snow etc., but personally I have thought that the show was not what is was a few years back, remember the original MRC show in London disappeared for a few years and nearly broke the club financially. In the letters pages of the railway mags at that time (pre internet) comment was made it was not the show it once was with traders not related to model railways were replacing the specialist trade I just hope that history does not repeat itself, as any show is always judged on the previous year. I think that without Warners backing there would not be a major London show. And maybe both the MRC and Warners should look at ways things can be improved in future years. I think one of the problems shared with Warley is that being so big the show tries to be everything to everyone, which means that most people will find things not to their liking. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenser Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 AFAIC the answer is definitely No. I avoid Ally Pally just like Warley as IMO it lost its appeal years ago. Glad to see nothing has changed and I'm not missing anything. There is definitely something in the air with the large commercial shows that seems to take them outside the hobby. The apparent concentration on RTR box shifter and usually the bigger club layouts - all the big shows except the "society" specials seem to be going this way. [emphasis added] The small trader used to turn up at shows to make themselves known or make a new release known, these days if they do not sell a stall full they cannot begin to cover the trade stand charge and cost of travel and manning the stall. What was seen as an opportunity to meet and greet your customers, gaining feedback and eliciting ideas and interest for the next development has gone. Everything now is online and at the same time remote. How many shows can you go to to buy wheels and all the other essential bits? Even the tools suppliers seem to go with masses of pre-packaged, gift-wrapped, inferior tat from China. What happened to the boxes of bits under the stalls with all-sorts of pot luck bargains for a few pence? They now seem to be pre-sorted and individually over-priced in polybags. It is a long time passing between shows when you cannot travel (or consider it a waste of time to bother travelling) to the big remote commercial ones. Actually what I think a lot of people are actually moaning about when they say it was "disappointing" is precisely that those things didn't feature prominently at Ally Pally this year. The supply of new red and blue boxes to shift was quite modest , and big club tailchasers were conspicuous by their absence Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
warbonnetuk Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 And on the Guardian website there's a rather nice gallery with lots of images from the show. Is it me, or have UK newspapers recently been rather positive in their coverage of railway modelling? Hey I got the back of my head in the Guardian! :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimbus Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 I took some snaps in the Bachmann cabinet, this is all I took and ive had to reduce the size for RMWeb, feel free to post them in their respective threads if they are useful. SAM_1723.JPG Such a tease, just 1/3 of a BR CCT! But I have to remark that Kader's toolmaking has really developed finesse over the last few years, particularly where freight stock is concerned. I wonder if that is a cross-fertilisation from their acquisition of Sanda Kan? The Nim. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
definate maybe Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 It seems the main gripes appears to be that there was not a layout to cover everyones personal interests or the right things for sale and therefore it was not worth it. Considering there are 3 main modelling scales with various offshoots, a few less well known/ seen gauges and god knows how many era's/ style of layout (mainline/ freight only/ shed/ branch and many in between) and many areas of the world to model then no show could cover everything for everyone. For those that thought it lacked quality then I would suggest that that is very disrespectful to the exhibitors who, for me anyway, shared some amazing talents. I suppose the one type of layout that was missing was the 'anything goes with something constantly moving and flashing lights in every available space' Personally these are not my kind of layouts but I think the younger/ casual viewers can be absorbed by the constant flow of these models. Standouts for me was my first viewing of Georgemas Junction, which I have long wanted to see and the amazing small details of St Denys. St Marnocks shed I have seen before but it always impresses me. Michaekerplatz held my attention for a while, which surprised me as I'm not normally taken by foreign models. Add to those the likes of Lambourn, New Bryford and Oldham King Street and for me the Quality was there. On the shopping side of things I found a nice mix of the rtp sales and those of a more specific nature although I do appreciate that my tastes may be a lot easier to find than those of you looking for a specialist item. Now everyone is entitled to there own opinions but for a non-specialised event I thought most of the bases were covered on the layout side of things and there were plenty of trade involvement whether it met your own needs or not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted March 24, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 24, 2014 To me the Ally Pally show represented BRM. It isn't a specialist gauge/era/company magazine - (I don't quite know how to phrase this next bit, but I'm not being uncomplimentary.) It's a general railway modelling magazine for general railway modelling folk, so therefore, the BRM show represents the BRM readership. If you want to see exclusively 7mm layouts and traders, then join the O gauge Guild and go to Telford. If you want EM layouts, join the EMGS and go to one of their expos. If you want D& E only layouts - go to DEMU showcase. I went as an exhibitor and thoroughly enjoyed the whole experience - the interaction with the public was one of the best I've been to and was quite surprised by what appeared to be a large proportion of either non-railway modellers, or those with just a passing interest. As Nobby says, there were a lot of families there - Sunday in particular. This show - and other large shows of the same ilk, cannot please all of the people all of the time. Looking at some of the replies on here, it seems that you can't please any of the people, any of the time. Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Claude_Dreyfus Posted March 24, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 24, 2014 If layouts were chosen on the basis of percentage of peoples interests in types of layout then we would lose the variety very quickly and shows would all become much the same. I fully understand that visitors will not be interested in all scales eras and countries as I once had that view but there are many people out there That get interested in something different after seeing such a layout at a show.. Agree... Gone will be that extra dimension and inspiration. Seems unfortunate that people get so tribal and refuse to acknowledge or appreciate good modelling; irrespective of the country or era the layout depicts. If we based it on percentage of interest, you would never see Japanese, Australian, South American and African models; that do appeal to the 'general public' as they are something different. You would just have a diet of UK steam and green, with some more modern offerings. How very parochial; how very sad... However some will knock certain types of layout quite openly. I have heard the comments when operating one of my layouts, ' on not another....... Layout' . It doesn't bother me as plenty do but it's a shame some have to be so vocal about it Occupational hazard sadly; how dare you exhibit something foreign! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Endacott Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 You can have a second viewing of Georgemas Junction at Trainwest. Mind you, this thread has got me worried. Four of the layouts don't have track plans in the guide. I haven't booked any S Scale layouts. There are three North American layouts - and one of those is Canadian. None of the layout names begins with the letter Q (or A, F, I, J, K, M, R, U, X or Z). The shuttle bus might be the wrong colour. None of the stewards are called Norman. And I have less than three weeks to put it all right! Geoff Endacott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted March 24, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 24, 2014 Four of the layouts don't have track plans in the guide. Oh b*gger . I'm not going to Trainwest then........... Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiesta Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 is the Q & A session with SK going to be put on here? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Dickerson Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 From the reactions of some people, it sounds like they'd complain if the bus driver had his hat tipped at a jaunty angle, or a duck in a nearby pond quacked at them in an unexpected manner. I didn't get to see the courtesy bus driver's hat, but he did slam the door in my partner's face having left several of us waiting at the non-existent stop before zooming off. And there was a very loud Canada Goose on the pond. I had a great time on Sunday - it did feel muted, and bits of it appeared to have been picked clean by punters. (Perhaps the only strange thing was that for something demonstrably not a national event, it had no London-themed layouts.) But I felt it still delivered. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizard of the Moor Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 On behalf of the Colinton crew, I would like to say Thank You to the organizers and stewards at Ally Pally for a very enjoyable weekend. There was a steady stream of interest in the layout, not least from all of the junior modellers filling in the answers to the quiz provided in the showguide. This is an excellent innovation to keep the youngsters interested and spur their imaginations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Such a tease, just 1/3 of a BR CCT! missed one out, I actually thought I took more of that but this is all ive got.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BanburyKev Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 To me the Ally Pally show represented BRM. It isn't a specialist gauge/era/company magazine - (I don't quite know how to phrase this next bit, but I'm not being uncomplimentary.) It's a general railway modelling magazine for general railway modelling folk, so therefore, the BRM show represents the BRM readership. If you want to see exclusively 7mm layouts and traders, then join the O gauge Guild and go to Telford. If you want EM layouts, join the EMGS and go to one of their expos. If you want D& E only layouts - go to DEMU showcase. I went as an exhibitor and thoroughly enjoyed the whole experience - the interaction with the public was one of the best I've been to and was quite surprised by what appeared to be a large proportion of either non-railway modellers, or those with just a passing interest. As Nobby says, there were a lot of families there - Sunday in particular. This show - and other large shows of the same ilk, cannot please all of the people all of the time. Looking at some of the replies on here, it seems that you can't please any of the people, any of the time. Cheers, Mick I think you have hit the nail on the head here. If you are a member of RMWeb you are probably going to be a serious 'railway modeller' and by that I mean someone who builds and has a layout. Therefore you will probably have an allegiance to a particular scale/company/era/country/etc. I am not a great fan of continental railways, but I did have a look at and appreciate the skill and effort involved in their construction and operation.. The Ally Pally show is a commercial offshoot of BRM magazine, just as Doncaster and Peterborough are, though for Ally Pally the layouts are handled by the MRC. It is a general model railway show, not a specialist event with probably the larger percentage of visitors being general public rather than serious modellers. There is no problem with that. With regard to the trade they are exactly that - they attend exhibitions to sell stock and increase their turnover. Not many businesses will do anything that results in a financial loss. I would love to be able to turn up at a show and purchase a couple of widgets from a small trader for 50p, but he has to sell a lot of widgets to cover stand rent, travel and accommodation before any money goes into the business to develop the next widget. I attended as an exhibitor on my TT gauge layout, Sabins End, and it was nice to have conversations with so many people about the layout itself, 3mm scale in general, using 50 year old Tri-ang chassis on my locos, tension lock couplings, making the buildings from card kits and recycling GEM track made in the 1970's , etc. All in all I thought it was a good show, or maybe it was not as good as the 'good old days at the Central Hall', with 15 layouts and a dozen traders and Chuff's Count Dracula's castle looming in the corner. Think I am showing my age now! See you all next year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 47137 Posted March 24, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 24, 2014 I want spectacle, something a bit special. It might be a layout with a viaduct four feet high, or HS2 in Lego, or a complete railway system without a fiddle yard. The Hornby Dublo was fantastic and the Liverpool overhead railway was top-notch. I admired the S scale layout, and tried to comprehend the amount of work it represents, though I didn't actually weep. I enjoyed some other layouts too, and certainly picked up ideas for a track plan and the presentation for a new layout. But then my memory gets hazy. I left the premises with a slack handful of Profi track (this has gone at the back of my display cabinet), two bags of scenic dressing, and a feeling of frustration that this was not a show, but rather a hosted and sponsored event. - Richard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 24, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 24, 2014 I didn't get to see the courtesy bus driver's hat, but he did slam the door in my partner's face having left several of us waiting at the non-existent stop before zooming off. And there was a very loud Canada Goose on the pond. I had a great time on Sunday - it did feel muted, and bits of it appeared to have been picked clean by punters. (Perhaps the only strange thing was that for something demonstrably not a national event, it had no London-themed layouts.) But I felt it still delivered. Mention of the shuttle'bus reminds me of one excellent 'incidental' feature - on Saturday the W3 service 'bus was running up to the show from the Ally Pally station end in pairs - someone somewhere had clearly cottoned on to the likelihood of lots of folk wishing to get up the hill and had duly strengthened the 'bus service to suit. Plus - at least on the 'bus we travelled on - an excellent driver who carefully explained that we would be told the best stop to alight at and don't get off at any other stop etc. As I said an incidental but definitely part of making it a decent day out; someone somewhere in the London 'bus empire deserves a vote of thanks for arranging that. Edit to correct 'bus route number!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Huw Griffiths Posted March 25, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 25, 2014 There is a courtesy bus to and from the car park, I went both days as I took elderly friends on both days. Neither would have made it comfortably up to the show if they walked. I liked the idea in the west hall for the kids and the idea of having a small trader area, I got four items from the club stand which I am pleased with. Able to pick up an order from C&L which not only saved postage but stocked up with rail, Able to buy some paint (Royal Mail wont send any more) and a few other bits. Best of all had a chat with a few different modellers regarding a few building tips. Mention of the shuttle'bus reminds me of one excellent 'incidental' feature - on Saturday the W3 service 'bus was running up to the show from the Ally Pally station end in pairs - someone somewhere had clearly cottoned on to the likelihood of lots of folk wishing to get up the hill and had duly strengthened the 'bus service to suit. Plus - at least on the 'bus we travelled on - an excellent driver who carefully explained that we would be told the best stop to alight at and don't get off at any other stop etc. As I said an incidental but definitely part of making it a decent day out; someone somewhere in the London 'bus empire deserves a vote of thanks for arranging that. I didn't get to see the courtesy bus driver's hat, but he did slam the door in my partner's face having left several of us waiting at the non-existent stop before zooming off. And there was a very loud Canada Goose on the pond. I had a great time on Sunday - it did feel muted, and bits of it appeared to have been picked clean by punters. (Perhaps the only strange thing was that for something demonstrably not a national event, it had no London-themed layouts.) But I felt it still delivered. I didn't even get to see the courtesy bus - leave alone its driver - I didn't know exactly where it ran from, or at what times. This meant the uphill walk from Alexandra Palace railway station on Saturday morning - when the only bus I saw was a W3 service bus passing me. Returning home on Saturday evening, I didn't even get to Alexandra Palace railway station - but then I found out that I didn't need to. On leaving the show, I noticed loads of people piling onto an (already crowded) W3, headed for Alexandra Palace and Wood Green stations. I also heard people moaning that they'd never be able to get on. As I had loads of time to get back to Victoria for my coach home, I had a look at the bus stop on the other side of the road - and saw that the W3 service buses picked up from there, with a ~15 minute journey offered to Finsbury Park station. This interested me - as my train in the morning had stopped there, on its way from King's Cross - so I knew I wouldn't be stranded if I went this way. Anyway, the bus for Finsbury Park turned up within a minute or two. I got on it - most show visitors did not - so I got a downstairs double seat to myself. After a short, pleasant, journey, the bus pulled up outside Finsbury Park station where - apart from the expected First Capital Connect trains for King's Cross - I also noticed signage for Piccadilly and Victoria Lines. The Victoria Line stuff was of particular interest to me - as this would take me to Victoria station. Also of interest was the fact that Finsbury Park is in Zone 2 (as opposed to Zone 3 for Alexandra Palace) - and the fact that going this way meant that I could avoid a wait at King's Cross, for the train to depart. I'll probably go to next year's show - and I know which way I'll be getting there (it won't involve FCC or Alexandra Palace station). I know what you mean about trade stands being picked clean by punters. One example that springs to mind was at another show - the Replica stand, at last year's "Warley", where Mk 1 TSO interiors seemed to disappear very quickly. I'm no expert - but I can't help wondering if this might have had something to do with the appearance last August of a certain "first part" work (that's right - the one with the £4 coach, which sort-of resembled a Mk 1 SK). For some reason, I can't help wondering if, somewhere, a number of people might be trying their hand at coach rebuilds / upgrades / repainting / lighting projects. I know that some have already found their way onto this site (and others) - but I suspect there might soon be a few more finding their way along the track - time will tell. As for London-themed layouts, this strikes me as an interesting point. I'll freely admit that mainline expresses running in endless loops aren't my prime interest, when it comes to model railways (however, I did see a lot of very inspiring layouts {and models} of many sorts of railways). I'm actually more interested in the smaller stuff - branchlines - micro layouts - narrow gauge - trams. I'm surprised that I haven't seen any layouts featuring the Docklands Light Railway - in fact, I haven't seen any such layouts anywhere (unless you count the large scale diorama, featuring a P86, in the London Transport Museum). Obviously, people are only going to build layouts (or models) of stuff that interests them - and it can't help that RTR or kit models of DLR stock seem to be a bit thin on the ground. It also can't help that plans of DLR stock don't seem to feature in model railway magazines. However, over the years, there have been a number of layouts of far more obscure railways - with similar amounts of stuff available - and this is why I'm surprised that I haven't seen DLR layouts. And on the Guardian website there's a rather nice gallery with lots of images from the show. Is it me, or have UK newspapers recently been rather positive in their coverage of railway modelling? About time, too. It's also about time the mainstream, free-to-air, TV networks started putting on programmes about modelmaking in general (especially railway modelmaking). Surely, some people must have had their fill of soaps - unfunny "comedies" - costume dramas - property programmes - and all the other "schedule fillers". Surely, it must be time for a change from all those terrible "Celebrities Looking Stupid" programmes - featuring loads of ZZZZZZZZZZZZZ listers you've never heard of, behaving like **##**@@**s and generally making complete fools of themselves. Surely, it must even be time for a few less repeats of "JK's Pond Life Show" - featuring lie detector results, drug tests, DNA paternity tests and (of course) loads of confrontations between inmates guests from the UK, the USA and doubtless soon any other country where "Jezza" and his team can dredge up a seemingly endless supply of noisome wasters. Personally, I can't see why anyone would wish to expose themselves to public ridicule in this way. Wait a moment - I think I get it now! All the scum on these programmes think they're "stars" - well there's certainly enough of the things coming out of their mouths! Still, what do I know? I mean - just like millions of other, frustrated, occasional viewers - I have no say in what the networks choose to stick on the telly (and no way of getting my views heard by the people who make the decisions). Anyway - rant over. Did I enjoy the show? Yes - very much. Stuff I liked - lots of first rate model trains and layouts - seminars (very welcome - very good, too - but not something I'm used to seeing at hobby shows) - specialist trade support (like many here, I'd always like to see more) - demo stands and "society" stands. I also enjoyed meeting a number of very interesting, very decent, people including (but not limited to) - RMweb members - the BRM team - and loads of people manning layouts and society stands, who patiently explained how they go about different aspects of building models. In fact, I like seeing these guys at any shows I go to - it doesn't seem to matter if they're dealing in my era, type of train etc - there often seems to be a lot I can learn from them - and I've got plenty to learn. Huw. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Mention of the shuttle'bus reminds me of one excellent 'incidental' feature - on Saturday the X3 service 'bus was running up to the show from the Ally Pally station end in pairs - someone somewhere had clearly cottoned on to the likelihood of lots of folk wishing to get up the hill and had duly strengthened the 'bus service to suit. Plus - at least on the 'bus we travelled on - an excellent driver who carefully explained that we would be told the best stop to alight at and don't get off at any other stop etc. As I said an incidental but definitely part of making it a decent day out; someone somewhere in the London 'bus empire deserves a vote of thanks for arranging that. Probably just bunching! I was surprised in the morning about how few of the passengers in the queue for the courtesy bus didn't get on the W3 at Wood Green, I would suggest the majority would have a free pass, and if they had done so, it would have freed capacity on the shuttle bus for the rest of us - we trundled past Ally Pally station without stopping because we were already loaded to the gunnels and this was a full hour after the show opened. One of the reasons I didn't stick around until last knocking was a certainty that the bus would be full if I left it any later, although as I was already fairly close to the daily Oyster price cap, I had decided that if a W3 turned up first I would travel on that, but as it happened a not-full shuttle bus was just about to depart and I stepped straight on. Jon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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