Train spotting at Finsbury Square

[31A]

2 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

Class stuff Steve, however there is something that you mentioned that made me go cold! Guards' Doors opening inwards. I am absolutely sure I have NOT done that on any of my Builds on any Coaches! Ignorance on my part, is not bliss and I shall now have to check all the damn things, most of which are Bulleid Passenger Coaches and I have no idea how the Guard's Door(s) worked on those!

The one or two of these ER types I've done (badly, as you know already) I am going to tackle First. How embarrassing, so thank you for mentioning that one small fact.

Love this JIg by the way!

Also, I find the Plastic Roof work just so relaxing after hours of soldering and, in my case, faffing!

Phil

 

Thank you, Phil.  Perhaps the Southern was Different?

 

On LNER Guard's compartments (and BR Mk1s, for example) the door opens inwards so the hinges are on the inside, and no door stops (hooray).  The door opens over the floor, so it is shallower at the bottom and you can see the edge of the floor beneath it.

 

The vans I'm making are similar to these:

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/37792935182/in/album-72157604142594351/

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/37155887053/in/album-72157604142594351/

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/37300164714/in/album-72157604142594351/

 

Sorry to cause you palpitations!😢

 

 

[Oldddudders]

12 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

Nah. Waving, not drowning!

P

I'm sorry to further pollute Steve's thread, but the dummy being on, and the driver and shunter being in visual communication suggests to me that the caption is wrong, and the PP set is being propelled onto the BCK, to be taken down the branch. 

[30368]

11 minutes ago, 31A said:

Thank you, Phil.  Perhaps the Southern was Different?

 

Sorry Phil, I'm not sure the Southern was different however, I wouldn't be pedantic about this. I am only basing my view on all the guards compartments that I have used to get onto trains/units (footsteps) in depot yards so by no means conclusive,

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard

[5BarVT]

3 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Oooo Errr is that passenger getting out the wrong side of the train?

No, ‘cos the door’s shut!

Interesting position for the shunter - does that imply the loco is RH drive or is the fireman relaying hand signals across the cab to the driver?  In which case, why not ride on the platform side and cut out the middleman.  Perhaps that footboard was platform side when he got on and has been hanging on one foot style all the way out and back in again.

Times have changed!

Paul.

[Sabato]

Southern Guards doors opened outwards, even on Bullieds. I often watched guards race for their door after the right away, especially if the hinge side was leading. The jerk of the start, especially with 4-Subs,  would cause the door to start to swing shut. No doubt, from time to time the guard didn't make it.

 

Inward opening doors arrived with BR Standard stock (AKA Mk1).

[Mallard60022]

1 hour ago, Sabato said:

Southern Guards doors opened outwards, even on Bullieds. I often watched guards race for their door after the right away, especially if the hinge side was leading. The jerk of the start, especially with 4-Subs,  would cause the door to start to swing shut. No doubt, from time to time the guard didn't make it.

 

Inward opening doors arrived with BR Standard stock (AKA Mk1).

Oh thank goodness for that. You saviour you. I'll just have to check my ER Kit builds now then.

P

[Mallard60022]

4 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

I'm sorry to further pollute Steve's thread, but the dummy being on, and the driver and shunter being in visual communication suggests to me that the caption is wrong, and the PP set is being propelled onto the BCK, to be taken down the branch. 

 I hadn't really read the Caption that way and did describe as you say earlier in this thread Dudds. I think it was in a section somewhere on a photo site that was talking about shunting the dropped off Coaches at SJ.

So maybe this caption was just saying the Brake was dropped off here, and the reader knows it is ready to be attached and shunted west, then the whole lot reversed onto the Branch and went down to Seaton with the Loco leading for a change. It's one of the moves I'm looking forward to.

P

[31A]

It's time to call these vans finished now!

 

A couple of pictures of E1007E (as it has become) with painting complete, and underframe and roof weathered.  It's interesting what a difference the room lighting can make to the shade of red!

 

I like to be able to weather underframes separately to coach bodies; it makes it easier to control where the weathering paint goes, although in this case being mainly parcels train vans, this pair ended up being pretty mucky anyway.  I prefer to use Methfix transfers for numbering, but have run out of Es and they don't seem to be available any longer.  So the numbers on these vans were made up by 'cut and shut' from sets of waterslide transfers from Modelmasters and Cambridge Custom Transfers.  At least that's a bit easier than using individual characters, but as usual I find it difficult to 'lose' the transfer film (despite following the recommendations of applying to a gloss surface, using a new knife blade, etc), and this seems particularly obvious on these smooth sided vehicles.

 

 

 

 Then some pics of the finished vans on the layout.  E1007E is one of the vans that was numbered in the East Coast numbering series, whereas E70380E is in the 'run of the mill' NPCCS number range.

 

 

 

 

 

[46444]

Very nicely built and finished.

 

I agree with you about loosing the film on either Modelmaster or Cambridge Custom Transfers. Brilliant time saving products.

 

One thing I have found recently is using a carefully applied light coat of Halfords Laquer for a smooth gloss finish. This gives a good surface for these makes of transfers. I use Johnson's Kleer to help them set as well once in place.

 

When dry I'll apply another light coat of Halfords Laquer, followed by Halfords Matt Varnish if necessary.

 

This method does tend to help loose the backing film of the transfers. I'll then finish with Valejo/Tamiya acrylic varnish once the coach etc is weathered.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

[thegreenhowards]

1 hour ago, 46444 said:

Very nicely built and finished.

 

I agree with you about loosing the film on either Modelmaster or Cambridge Custom Transfers. Brilliant time saving products.

 

One thing I have found recently is using a carefully applied light coat of Halfords Laquer for a smooth gloss finish. This gives a good surface for these makes of transfers. I use Johnson's Kleer to help them set as well once in place.

 

When dry I'll apply another light coat of Halfords Laquer, followed by Halfords Matt Varnish if necessary.

 

This method does tend to help loose the backing film of the transfers. I'll then finish with Valejo/Tamiya acrylic varnish once the coach etc is weathered.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

Humbrol decalfix helps as well. Applied once the transfers are on and dry it creeps under the transfer and ‘sucks’ it onto the surface.

[31A]

2 hours ago, 46444 said:

Very nicely built and finished.

 

I agree with you about loosing the film on either Modelmaster or Cambridge Custom Transfers. Brilliant time saving products.

 

One thing I have found recently is using a carefully applied light coat of Halfords Laquer for a smooth gloss finish. This gives a good surface for these makes of transfers. I use Johnson's Kleer to help them set as well once in place.

 

When dry I'll apply another light coat of Halfords Laquer, followed by Halfords Matt Varnish if necessary.

 

This method does tend to help loose the backing film of the transfers. I'll then finish with Valejo/Tamiya acrylic varnish once the coach etc is weathered.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

 

Thank you for those kind words Mark, glad you like them!  The way I paint coaches seems to be quite similar to the way you describe.

 

Like you, I try to get as glossy a surface as possible to apply waterslide transfers to.  With these vans, the 'livery colour' was Halford's Ford Burgundy Red which in itself is supposed to be glossy I suppose, but in practice is not quite so.  Then all the maroon areas received a brushed coat of Johnson's Kleer.  I'm reluctant to apply too many coats of paint / varnish as the thickness builds up on details (there had already been two coats of primer!), and there's always a risk of causing 'runs' or picking up some 'foreign body', but the sides still weren't as glossy as I wanted, so to make sure I gave the panels which would receive transfers another coat of Kleer.  I thought that ought to have been glossy enough so then I put the transfers onto that, and sealed them with yet another coat of Kleer over the whole side.  After that, the sides received a coat of Humbrol Satin Varnish from aerosol, before weathering with Humbrol enamels.

 

I have read of Halford's lacquers but haven't got any yet.  When I next pay them a visit I'm minded to get one each of gloss, satin and matt and see how I get on with them, especially as Testor's Dullcote which was my favourite matt varnish doesn't seem to be available in the UK any longer.

 

1 hour ago, thegreenhowards said:

Humbrol decalfix helps aswell. Applied once the transfers are on and dry it creeps under the transfer and ‘sucks’ it onto the surface.

 

Thank you, I might try and get some of that next time I go to the Model Shop.

 

I did have a very old jar of Carr's Transfix which was very good at doing what you describe, but it has finally run out.  I did get some Microscale Micro Set which I hoped would do the same thing, but it seems to react with the Johnson's Kleer and turns it milky.

 

The meths solution that I use for Methfix transfers can also turn Kleer milky, so if I know I'm going to be using Methfix transfers I varnish the relevant panels with Humbrol Gloss varnish instead.

[jwealleans]

2 hours ago, 31A said:

Testor's Dullcote which was my favourite matt varnish doesn't seem to be available in the UK any longer.

 

It's not available in many places although allegedly still made.   Mick B recommended Army Painter matt varnish which I have got hold of a can of but have yet to try.

[46444]

I had the same problem using Kleer. I thought I had a nice glossy surface for the Cambridge Custom Transfers but they still 'silvered'. I also had problems with Methfix transfers reacting with the Kleer and leaving a bloom.

 

I've taken a few snaps of rolling stock that has received Halfords Laquer. These have all been finished with Halfords Matt Varnish.

 

Transfers are Cambridge Custom Transfers. The ex-PO wagon transfers are from Modelmaster.

 

 

 

 

Other than the distressed ex-PO 5 plank and LNER open wagon they were all hand painted with either Revell, Games Workshop or Valejo acrylics over Halfords primer.

 

 

 

As you have mentioned building up light coats of primer, colour and varnish is key. With the Halfords Laquers they do spray on the heavier side so caution is needed. 

 

Of course it does not always work and sometimes you can still see transfers like on this ex-SR van. 

 

 

I spoke to one of the team in Leeds Model shop recently about Testers Dullcote. Apparently it is still made but not sold here due to it containing some rather nasty products hazardous to health. 

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

 

* The LNER open is a Kernow special which was finished as a St. Blazey wagon. The PO wagon is a Bachmann special to commemorate Merl Evans. Both cost £10.00 having been reduced.

Edited October 29, 2023 by 46444

[31A]

40 minutes ago, 46444 said:

I had the same problem using Kleer. I thought I had a nice glossy surface for the Cambridge Custom Transfers but they still 'silvered'. I also had problems with Methfix transfers reacting with the Kleer and leaving a bloom.

 

I've taken a few snaps of rolling stock that has received Halfords Laquer. These have all been finished with Halfords Matt Varnish.

 

Transfers are Cambridge Custom Transfers. The ex-PO wagon transfers are from Modelmaster.

 

 

 

 

Other than the distressed ex-PO 5 plank and LNER open wagon they were all hand painted with either Revell, Games Workshop or Valejo acrylics over Halfords primer.

 

 

 

As you have mentioned building up light coats of primer, colour and varnish is key. With the Halfords Laquers they do spray on the heavier side so caution is needed. 

 

Off course it does not always work and sometimes you can still see transfers like on this ex-SR van. 

 

 

I spoke to one of the team in Leeds Model shop recently about Testers Dullcote. Apparently it is still made but not sold here due to it containing some rather nasty products hazardous to health. 

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

 

* The LNER open is a Kernow special which was finished as a St. Blazey wagon. The PO wagon is a Bachmann special to commemorate Merl Evans. Both cost £10.00 having been reduced.

Thank you for those pictures Mark and showing the encouraging results you've got from the Halfords Lacquer.  I look forward to trying it.  Those wagons do look very good!

 

[Chas Levin]

Beautiful coaches Steve, as others have said! And yes, the differences caused by lighting can change shades to an astonishing degree. I've spent time on previous projects chasing my tail in trying to achieve accurate hues, only to see them vary like a kaleidoscope on their way round the layout!

 

Regarding varnishes I'd second the use of Humbrol Decalfix very enthusiastically. I use quite a lot, but in repeated small amounts. In other words, I use a suitably small paintbrush to apply just enough to fully wet the newly applied transfer and as I'm usually applying multiple transfers to one side of something (numbers, letters or whatever) I let that dose settle in while I'm cutting and applying the next item. I then re-apply another light amount to the first transfer, carrying on like that, alternating between repeat doses to already positioned transfers and applying new ones. I usually stop after about three or four applications to the same transfer, unless there's a particularly troublesome area, such as the 'N' and 'E' on an LNER wagon needing to go over some strapping or rivets. In those cases, even more doses, if carefully applied, can result in transfers moulding themselves round the smallest details to an amazing degree and they look uncannily like they're painted on:

 

 

 

The Decalfix allows the transfer material to stretch as well as soften, so although the sections round the strapping in those photos are necessarily longer, they don't break, or pull the ends of the letters inwards.

 

For varnish, I've used Ronseal interior water-based stuff for years (usually under their 'Diamond Hard' branding). It has some of the best self-levelling I've seen in any paint or varnish, it dries absolutely evenly 99.9% of the time (given careful brushing of course), it has only ever upset transfers in two cases that I can remember (one of which was using years-old vintage transfers), it comes in matt, satin and gloss and also in various tints (I use the Teak Satin one as part of my LNER coach teaking routine) and being water based, it's quick and easy to prep and clean up.

 

Sorry - bit of a long post but hopefully useful!

[Neil]

A word of caution re. Halfords lacquer. I use it (satin and matt) I like it but it does seem to react with some early Bachmann lining and lettering where I suspect transfers have been used. It doesn't seem to cause problems with Pressfix, Modelmaster or my own home made waterslide efforts.

[46444]

25 minutes ago, Neil said:

A word of caution re. Halfords lacquer. I use it (satin and matt) I like it but it does seem to react with some early Bachmann lining and lettering where I suspect transfers have been used. It doesn't seem to cause problems with Pressfix, Modelmaster or my own home made waterslide efforts.

 

Good piece of advice Neil.

 

Recently I re-finished a Bachmann GWR Mogul for a friend using Fox lining. Once finished I gave it a coat of Halfords Laquer. 

 

The lining on the tender reacted to the laquer. I left well alone and thankfully it all bedded down nicely.

 

Perhaps using the Halfords laquer to obtain a gloss finish to apply the transfers to is appropriate. Then finish with a more gentle varnish to avoid complications. 

 

Cheers,

 

Mark 

[31A]

2 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

Beautiful coaches Steve, as others have said! And yes, the differences caused by lighting can change shades to an astonishing degree. I've spent time on previous projects chasing my tail in trying to achieve accurate hues, only to see them vary like a kaleidoscope on their way round the layout!

 

Regarding varnishes I'd second the use of Humbrol Decalfix very enthusiastically. I use quite a lot, but in repeated small amounts. In other words, I use a suitably small paintbrush to apply just enough to fully wet the newly applied transfer and as I'm usually applying multiple transfers to one side of something (numbers, letters or whatever) I let that dose settle in while I'm cutting and applying the next item. I then re-apply another light amount to the first transfer, carrying on like that, alternating between repeat doses to already positioned transfers and applying new ones. I usually stop after about three or four applications to the same transfer, unless there's a particularly troublesome area, such as the 'N' and 'E' on an LNER wagon needing to go over some strapping or rivets. In those cases, even more doses, if carefully applied, can result in transfers moulding themselves round the smallest details to an amazing degree and they look uncannily like they're painted on:

 

 

 

The Decalfix allows the transfer material to stretch as well as soften, so although the sections round the strapping in those photos are necessarily longer, they don't break, or pull the ends of the letters inwards.

 

For varnish, I've used Ronseal interior water-based stuff for years (usually under their 'Diamond Hard' branding). It has some of the best self-levelling I've seen in any paint or varnish, it dries absolutely evenly 99.9% of the time (given careful brushing of course), it has only ever upset transfers in two cases that I can remember (one of which was using years-old vintage transfers), it comes in matt, satin and gloss and also in various tints (I use the Teak Satin one as part of my LNER coach teaking routine) and being water based, it's quick and easy to prep and clean up.

 

Sorry - bit of a long post but hopefully useful!

 

2 hours ago, Neil said:

A word of caution re. Halfords lacquer. I use it (satin and matt) I like it but it does seem to react with some early Bachmann lining and lettering where I suspect transfers have been used. It doesn't seem to cause problems with Pressfix, Modelmaster or my own home made waterslide efforts.

 

1 hour ago, 46444 said:

 

Good piece of advice Neil.

 

Recently I re-finished a Bachmann GWR Mogul for a friend using Fox lining. Once finished I gave it a coat of Halfords Laquer. 

 

The lining on the tender reacted to the laquer. I left well alone and thankfully it all bedded down nicely.

 

Perhaps using the Halfords laquer to obtain a gloss finish to apply the transfers to is appropriate. Then finish with a more gentle varnish to avoid complications. 

 

Cheers,

 

Mark 

 

Thanks all for those very useful and constructive answers.  Certainly some stuff to think about there!

 

Chas, you've done really well with the waterslide transfers on those wagons (and a lovely job of painting them).  I shall get some Humbrol Decalfix ASAP!

[31A]

Next up, a Covered Wagon.  Nothing to do with Conestoga or even a Vanfit, this was the nickname given to the five ex GER J15s which were given side window cabs, and cabs on the tenders, in the 1930s for use on the Colne Valley line (Chappel & Wakes Colne-Haverhill) where there was a lack of turntables and consequently a lot of tender first running.

 

Information came from the Isinglass drawing 441 and drawings in the GERS Journal Np. 133, as well as the relevant RCTS Green Book and Yeadon's Register volumes.

 

A little while ago I obtained another Hornby J15 for a very reasonable price from the Aladdin's Cave that is Anoraks Anonymous in Doncaster.  It was an LNER one, which was fortuitous for this conversion as the locos that were given new cabs retained the low roofs, unlike the models in BR livery which depict the later high cab roofs.  The J15s are full of detail pitfalls for the modeller and Hornby have catered for quite a few variations.  Also useful in this case is the lack of Westinghouse brake, and the tender has oval cutouts in the frames rather than D shaped.

 

 

So, the starting point is a bit of metalwork.

 

The tender cab and new cab sides are cut out of 10 thou brass and soldered up.  The beading is thin copper wire from an old point motor solenoid.  I made the coal guards for the tender spectacle plate following the advice in Guy Williams book 'The 4mm Locomotive", only drilling holes for the bottom of the rails and soldering the tops, lining them up by eye.  He used 5 amp fuse wire but I found this too soft, and used 0.31mm nickel silver wire instead.  I'm not sure whether the scribed coal doors will be visible after it's painted!

 

Another view of the tender cab:

 

 

And here we have 7524 reduced to a kit of parts, and with the cab sides above the splasher boxes sawn off.  The sawn lines aren't too straight in places, deliberately so to try and avoid some of the internal cab detail which is part of the casting.  I have also drilled holes in the smokebox and cab front for the vacuum ejector exhaust pipe, which is lying alongside in this picture.

 

 

This evening I have Araldited the new cab sides in place, and am leaving it alone now until tomorrow to let the glue cure.

 

[Chas Levin]

Nice work Steve, this should be a fine loco when it's finished!

 

I have one (unmodified) of these too and of all the RTR locos I have - or have ever owned - it's undoubtedly one of very the smoothest runners at low speed. Never thought of turning it into a Wagon though! 😁

[31A]

3 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

Nice work Steve, this should be a fine loco when it's finished!

 

I have one (unmodified) of these too and of all the RTR locos I have - or have ever owned - it's undoubtedly one of very the smoothest runners at low speed. Never thought of turning it into a Wagon though! 😁

Thank you Chas!  I've already got two, and as you say, the best slow speed running locos I own.  It has a few faults as a model, not show stoppers in my opinion and I can forgive them in view of the performance.

 

Some tricky plumbing next!

 

[45568]

Interesting little project Steve. For the benefit of others who may be tempted, this may save you a little metalwork?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/225097636285?hash=item3468dd59bd:g:nX0AAOSwK1ZiVKIS&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4Lrk%2BN7ymp81LAmnYnxs%2FMdyCKB%2Bt94anI2bqjubuygmqHVPXFcQzmg%2BbNFFIbxZAN5ngkhwBIwmEOrASP2Pe8609VfPlq0Ma3kBMuJL8%2FNcekkJFnt4Pr1bzpiqh1EfpVNa2H6xAStL9oRgtSv3ghJRt29HijQP%2BqcD3Ospxq6y36XMwer5o6Qqn%2Brl%2BZUSXBOX5WBkI1QrrzscFZbWstFlBHdDZ%2FS8M0IaPiKL9rnp1DeQ7ui8aOC6tI%2BwqngB6ftrGx0kunMZ19I0fPy0DEM7LRbjHaxNryv%2BcAxXVNG%2B|tkp%3ABk9SR5yW2rnyYg

No connection etc. but I have had a couple of these and they are very good.

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C.

[31A]

3 hours ago, 45568 said:

Interesting little project Steve. For the benefit of others who may be tempted, this may save you a little metalwork?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/225097636285?hash=item3468dd59bd:g:nX0AAOSwK1ZiVKIS&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4Lrk%2BN7ymp81LAmnYnxs%2FMdyCKB%2Bt94anI2bqjubuygmqHVPXFcQzmg%2BbNFFIbxZAN5ngkhwBIwmEOrASP2Pe8609VfPlq0Ma3kBMuJL8%2FNcekkJFnt4Pr1bzpiqh1EfpVNa2H6xAStL9oRgtSv3ghJRt29HijQP%2BqcD3Ospxq6y36XMwer5o6Qqn%2Brl%2BZUSXBOX5WBkI1QrrzscFZbWstFlBHdDZ%2FS8M0IaPiKL9rnp1DeQ7ui8aOC6tI%2BwqngB6ftrGx0kunMZ19I0fPy0DEM7LRbjHaxNryv%2BcAxXVNG%2B|tkp%3ABk9SR5yW2rnyYg

No connection etc. but I have had a couple of these and they are very good.

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C.

 

Thanks Peter, I was afraid someone would come up with something like that! 🤣

 

I was rather hoping there might be an etch for the loco cab or at least the cab sides, but I've got beyond that stage now.

 

The tender cabs that were fitted to several J15s (other than the "Covered Wagon" ones) seem to have been a bit 'home made' at depots and differed in details; I see the door on that one is different to the Isinglass drawing I'm working from for mine.

 

Nevertheless it might be something to bear in mind if I ever get another J15 - you never know!

[45568]

14 minutes ago, 31A said:

 

Thanks Peter, I was afraid someone would come up with something like that! 🤣

 

I was rather hoping there might be an etch for the loco cab or at least the cab sides, but I've got beyond that stage now.

 

The tender cabs that were fitted to several J15s (other than the "Covered Wagon" ones) seem to have been a bit 'home made' at depots and differed in details; I see the door on that one is different to the Isinglass drawing I'm working from for mine.

 

Nevertheless it might be something to bear in mind if I ever get another J15 - you never know!

Steve,

           I have a new Nu-Cast E4 to build, I intend to use a spare Hornby J15 tender I picked up on Ebay complete with the Nui cab, (having already bought another J15 tender and cab kit!). Looking at the instructions parts 15/16 are cab sides for the NE area with a side window. I know spares can be readily available from NuCast, these may offer an alternative.

Look forward to seeing this finished!

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C.

[jwealleans]

57 minutes ago, 31A said:

I was rather hoping there might be an etch for the loco cab or at least the cab sides

 

I have a vague recollection there might be one on the Alan Gibson etches.  I doubt I can find mine now, but someone might have them left over in a box - now it's too late for you to use them, of course.

 

I put an etched weatherboard affair onto a Hornby J15 for one of my mates at Ely Club, but I couldn't tell you where he got it from. 

 

Edited November 3, 2023 by jwealleans