Train spotting at Finsbury Square

[31A]

5 hours ago, 45568 said:

Lovely work Steve! The J15 must be one of the best of Hornby's 'little black 0.6.0s', certainly the variety catered for in the model is exemplary. A pity that the later releases didn't sell too well, I did my bit and ended up with four of them! This project has me on the lookout for a cheap donor, but care is needed to get the right starting model.

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C.

Thank you Peter, I'm glad you like it.

 

I agree, the J15 is a lovely little model and with a very good mechanism as well, the slow speed running is second to none.  It is not without one or two slight niggles but what model is.

 

I omitted to mention that I filed some metal off the chassis block to lower the body slightly, which helps disguise the join in the lower part of the boiler.  I did think about re-drilling the holes for the boiler handrail knobs to make them perpendicular to the boiler, but decided that was a job too far for this time!

 

You're right about choosing the right starting model.  This one was R3230.  Starting with an LNER livery version meant the lower cab roof could be retained for this model.  If I had got a Westinghouse fitted one I would not have needed to add the pipework along the footplate angle; having said that I think my version has come out quite well!  From looking at pictures of the real ones, it seemed I was restricted as to which 'Covered Wagon' I could make it by the tender underframe - in this case the model has the oval slots in the frame whereas others have the D-shaped cut outs.  Also, some seem to have had the shorter chimneys fitted, which the Hornby model doesn't cater for as far as I know.

 

Anyway, it was a nice little project to do.  I think three J15s is probably enough - for now!

 

[Chas Levin]

On 07/12/2023 at 21:08, 31A said:

In reality the cab is so enclosed that the crew is hardly visible...

 

Still well worth putting them in IMHO though Steve - you only need a glimpse of a blue jacket to sustain the illusion...

[31A]

Happy New Year from Finsbury Square to everyone on RMWeb!

 

[lezz01]

Right back at yah Steve.

Regards Lez.

[Barry O]

Have a great 2024 Steve!

 

Baz

[31A]

33 minutes ago, Barry O said:

Have a great 2024 Steve!

 

Baz

Thank you Barry, same to you!

 

[Neil]

Happy New Year Steve. I see motive power shortages have become so critical that control have had to 'borrow' a couple of exhibits from the museum at York. Vintage locos out on the national railway network; it'll never catch on you know.

[Chas Levin]

And to you, Steve 👋🏻

[steve1]

And to you too Steve.

 

Maybe we’ll bump into one another at a show sometime! 😀

 

steve

[31A]

3 hours ago, Neil said:

Happy New Year Steve. I see motive power shortages have become so critical that control have had to 'borrow' a couple of exhibits from the museum at York. Vintage locos out on the national railway network; it'll never catch on you know.

Hard times Neil!  I'm assured they'll still turn a wheel ....

[31A]

3 hours ago, steve1 said:

And to you too Steve.

 

Maybe we’ll bump into one another at a show sometime! 😀

 

steve

Hope so, Steve!

 

[manna]

G'Day Folks

 

Happy New Year Steve. Nice to see the GN taking center stage.

 

manna

[31A]

31 minutes ago, manna said:

G'Day Folks

 

Happy New Year Steve. Nice to see the GN taking center stage.

 

manna

Thanks Manna, same to you!

[31A]

Some projects don't go as expected .....

 

A little while ago I bought a Hornby Magazine / Dapol LMS Stove R six wheeled brake van, at the Hull MRS show on Remembrance Weekend in November.  I thought it would make a nice little quick project.  Most people you talk to about these say something like "Nice model, pity it doesn't run", but I've always had a soft spot for these vans ever since I had a Hornby Dublo one (and that didn't run very well either).

 

However making the Dapol one run properly isn't difficult; basically you need to fix the swivelling "axleguard units" that carry the outer axles so that they no longer pivot and the wheels run in a straight line.  Then you need to give the middle axle a bit more vertical play.  It's held in place by a clip which you can unclip, then remove the middle "Bearing block" by undoing the self tapping screw in the middle of it, taking it out and deepening the slot in it with a file, so that the axle has more "up and down" to it.

 

If you're happy with the wheels being wagon sized rather than coach sized, that's all you need to do.  But to me the wagon sized wheels look silly on a coach, so I set about fitting bigger ones.  I had done this before, when the model first came out - here's one I did earlier:

 

 

In order to fit the bigger wheels you need to remove quite a lot of plastic from the pieces (formerly swivelling) that join the axleguards.  This leaves them quite fragile, but as they no longer need to swivel, you can glue the axleguards to the insides of the solebars.

 

The brake shoes are moulded flush with the outsides of the axleguards rather than being in line with the wheels, but having fitted bigger wheels they now look even more incongruous.  So I cut them off, and replaced them with some whitemetal ones (ABS) glued in line with the wheels.

 

I know there are various options for replacing the whole underframe of these vans with better parts, and that may have been a sensible way to go but I was trying to use what I'd got as far as possible, plus the underframe as supplied has a lot of quite nice detail on it (battery boxes, steps etc.).

 

 

This does make the van ride about a millimetre higher than it previously did, but as it'll spend most of its life in Parcels trains mixed up with all sorts of vans, I can live with that.  One can also invoke new wheels / stiff springs etc, if you want to justify it.

 

As I was hoping this would be a quick project, I thought I'd try out one or two different techniques which I could use in future to speed up the painting of brass coaches.   With brass coaches I usually spray them first with primer, then spray the underframes black and weather them by hand brushing.  I thought I might be able to cut out the black spray stage if I sprayed the underframe with Railmatch Frame Dirt from an aerosol.  The way this model is constructed also lends itself to spraying the roof with Railmatch Roof Dirt while it is separated from the body.

 

 

The Roof part went well, but the Frame Dirt paint isn't the colour I'd paint a vehicle's underframe!  To me it looks far too much like a chocolate brown colour.  I've been told some people use this colour to spray track before laying, which seems like a much better use for it!  So, it  was back to square one on that score, hand painting an 'underframe weathering colour' in my usual way, which is a mixture roughy 50:50 of Humbrol No. 29 Dark Earth and No. 33 Matt Black:

 

 

Anyway, so far so good (reasonably).  More to come....

 

 

[lezz01]

You do know you can get a Cleminson 6 wheel bogie of the type that Slaters use on their 6 wheelers. I think Brassmasters do it as a spare part and if not Scalefour stores has two options, one for GW type and one for MR/LMS type both are from Brassmasters. £12 from S4 stores, £15 from Brassmasters. Plus postage in both cases. If you know someone who's a member then get them from S4 stores. I can get them for you from the stores but then it's double postage but if you know a member from a club or where you have regular with someone in the Soc. then go with S4.

Regards Lez.  

[31A]

57 minutes ago, lezz01 said:

You do know you can get a Cleminson 6 wheel bogie of the type that Slaters use on their 6 wheelers. I think Brassmasters do it as a spare part and if not Scalefour stores has two options, one for GW type and one for MR/LMS type both are from Brassmasters. £12 from S4 stores, £15 from Brassmasters. Plus postage in both cases. If you know someone who's a member then get them from S4 stores. I can get them for you from the stores but then it's double postage but if you know a member from a club or where you have regular with someone in the Soc. then go with S4.

Regards Lez.  

Thank you Lez, yes I did know, but I wanted to make the most of what I'd got in the RTR model.

 

The first van that I did (in the picture above) runs perfectly well with the outer axles fixed and the middle one floating in its slot.  After all, the overall wheelbase is similar to the Hornby LNER 4-w CCT or Southern four wheeled brake, for example, so I don't think "steering" axles are really necessary for vehicles of this type in OO.  Maybe different in P4 or EM.

 

The design of the Dapol Stove R seems to be an attempt at a 'half way house' with outer axles which are free to pivot

 but are not guided in any way, which seems to be a contradiction to the rule which is always stated in articles about building rolling stock, to make sure the axles are parallel to each other and at right angles to the longitudinal axis!  I think this is the main cause of the poor running of this vehicle as supplied, while the middle axle doesn't have enough vertical play to cope with irregularities in the track.  

 

There are also six wheeled underframes for this van available from Comet and Ian McDonald.  I have made an Ian Macdonald kit for an LNER BZ (which uses a Cleminson type arrangement) and it runs very well.  There are also plastic mouldings available from Chivers, which I believe are from their LMS 6-w Fish Van and would be suitable for a Stove R.  I have built one of these Fish Vans as well, and made the middle axle floating in an MJT axleguard suspended from a longitudinal wire (an idea copied from a D&S GN six wheeler kit), and that works well too.

 

[Clive Mortimore]

2 hours ago, lezz01 said:

You do know you can get a Cleminson 6 wheel bogie of the type that Slaters use on their 6 wheelers. I think Brassmasters do it as a spare part and if not Scalefour stores has two options, one for GW type and one for MR/LMS type both are from Brassmasters. £12 from S4 stores, £15 from Brassmasters. Plus postage in both cases. If you know someone who's a member then get them from S4 stores. I can get them for you from the stores but then it's double postage but if you know a member from a club or where you have regular with someone in the Soc. then go with S4.

Regards Lez.  

Being a skinflint I too resorted to Slaters, their 40 thou plastic card. I also used some old Airfix wheels in my prototype.

 

Like Steve has done, I have fixed outer axles and a floating inner one.

 

Chassis playing dead. Crude but works.

 

The BGZ body, remains of cutting and shutting Airfix/Dapol Non-gangway Brake Seconds into all Seconds.

 

This is my crane runner, it has a longer wheelbase which is fixed. It still is able to go through Peco medium points, which makes me wonder why we worry so much about 6 wheeled coaches and wagons?

 

 

Edited January 2 by Clive Mortimore

[Flying Pig]

2 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

This is my crane runner, it has a longer wheelbase which is fixed. It still is able to go through Peco medium points, which makes me wonder why we worry so much about 6 wheeled coaches and wagons?

 

The Hattons 6 wheelers appear to have fixed outer axles with some sideplay on the middle wheelset, so presumably they wondered the same thing.

[jimwal]

I reasoned the same as Steve regarding the wheelbase of six wheelers.

I've built or converted a number of six wheel vans having done them exactly the way that Steve and Clive have and they are fine.

 

My phone (Samsung A52s) uses a different photo format to any of the accepted types here.

Until I find way round it, I'm unable to upload any pictures here.

[St Enodoc]

18 hours ago, 31A said:

Frame Dirt paint isn't the colour I'd paint a vehicle's underframe!  To me it looks far too much like a chocolate brown colour.  I've been told some people use this colour to spray track before laying, which seems like a much better use for it!

I don't spray Frame Dirt but I use it to touch up after soldering copperclad points and so on.

[31A]

7 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

I don't spray Frame Dirt but I use it to touch up after soldering copperclad points and so on.

Must have forgotten what you said!  It's been a while.... 🙄

[Mallard60022]

Good one Steve. I got one of these in an Auction Pack, as I have a pic of a D63XX at SJ with one and some Milk Tankers. Haven't altered mine. The wheels look a bit small and odd but it seems to run ok on my Railway. I might dig it out if I can find it and give it a whirl now that I see a way of dealing with the wibbly axles etc.

Clive's looks brilliant too. He makes more Coaches than the LMS did in their whole existence.

Philth 

[Mallard60022]

Red Leader has a couple of 'brownish' sprays that he uses for Track and Sleepers. Can't remember of they are Frame Dirt?

P

[31A]

10 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

Red Leader has a couple of 'brownish' sprays that he uses for Track and Sleepers. Can't remember of they are Frame Dirt?

P

Thanks Phil, perhaps that's where I got the idea from then....

[31A]

So anyway, that's the Underframe taken care of; moving on....

 

One reason why I wanted another Stove R was that I've never been very happy with the rendition of BR Maroon on the one I've already got, it seems to dark.  I thought a BR Crimson one might look better.  So, the second hand one I bought in Hull was in LMS livery!  No problem, how difficult can it be to repaint it to Crimson.

 

Once I'd managed to break into it, it all unclipped nicely.  It's quite a clever design really; the glazing is held in place by  lugs in the floor, and the roof clips into that.  The glazing was glued in place (although this doesn't seem to be really necessary) but the glue was easy to break without damaging anything.  I couldn't get the buckets out but masked off the windows in them with slivers of masking tape.

 

I sprayed the body in my usual way with Halford's Red Oxide Primer, followed by two coats of Railmatch BR Crimson enamel from aerosol.

 

Still trying to be innovative and shorten the process for painting coaches, I thought I'd try and then produce a gloss finish ready for the transfers, and on a visit to Halford's had picked up a can of their Gloss Lacquer.

 

Oh dear.

 

Well one side wasn't too bad:

 

 

The other side was more like somebody who'd been on the beach for too long without any sun protection.

 

 

I'm not sure whether the photo really does it justice.  The paint had crazed and bubbled, and could easily be scraped off with a fingernail!  Why one side was much worse I don't know and can only guess that I may have kept mt finger on the button a bit longer.  Anyway, it all had to come off again!