JSpencer Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 (edited) Thanks to Bachmann for the images of the Warflats as displayed at Ally Pally this weekend. 38-725.LS.jpg 38-726.LS.jpg 38-727.LS.jpg I cannot wait to see the tanks they intend to include. I have the impression it will be a Cromwell on one (or both) and a Comet on the other (if they decide not to do just two Cromwells). For £10 more, I am curious to see how good these will be in quality.Few manufacturers are down to that price. I hope that they are not simple resin lumps. You can get quite a good tank from diecast. They are similar in construction to most Diecast vehicles, however one area that hard to do are the tracks. Making these look fine, but ensuring the correct number of blocs (some people count these) and that they are perfectly engaged with the drive sprockets is the challenge. Those on the Cromwell sag between the front idler and the rear sprocket, those on the Comet have return idlers and consequently look tighter in fit. (Unless the Cromwell in question used the same F type hull as a Comet). There are several methods of manufacture for these, each with advantages and disadvantages. Tracks can really make or spoil the appearence of a model tank. (Likewise, I wonder what Oxford will do for their Sherman and Churchills). In my experience, people who are good at modelling both trains and tanks successfully are few and far between. I have seen some awful train dioramas or small layouts with excellent model tanks or awful tanks on a perfectly good layout with excellent trains. My hope is that the state of the art model Warflats have a decent looking tank worthy of sitting on the model (no need to go to Dragon standards with etched parts though). Edited March 30, 2017 by JSpencer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 I wrote to Merl Evans aeons ago kicking this off, there are quite a lot of possibilities, although the differences between WW1 and WW2 warflats does confuse what is possible. The important ones are the Coils, but you'll all go crazy because the frame work is partly exposed on unloaded wagons. http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/?q=warflat There were also some Trestles introduced right on the cusp on nationalisation. Paul Paul, Bachmann's painted sample of 38-727 (BR-owned FLAT WC) is in non-fitted grey, but it seems to carry vacuum brake fittings. Do you know if any / all of the wagons acquired by BR had their vacuum brake fittings removed / disconnected, which would justify the grey livery? Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Paul, Bachmann's painted sample of 38-727 (BR-owned FLAT WC) is in non-fitted grey, but it seems to carry vacuum brake fittings. Do you know if any / all of the wagons acquired by BR had their vacuum brake fittings removed / disconnected, which would justify the grey livery? Regards, John Isherwood. I don't work for Bachmann. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Where did the use of 'non-fitted' come from as I have only came across fitted and unfitted. Mark Saunders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 I don't work for Bachmann. Paul, I'm well aware of that fact - I was asking whether, with your well-deserved reputation for expertise in the field of wagon research, you are aware of any BR FLAT WCs that had had their vacuum-brakes removed or disconnected. Indirectly, I also invited your opinion as to whether the grey livery proposed by Bachmann is correct; I seem to recall that you have commented in the past as to the validity or otherwise of model rolling stock liveries. I'm sorry if you misunderstood my enquiry to have any other implication. Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Where did the use of 'non-fitted' come from as I have only came across fitted and unfitted. Mark Saunders One of my many foibles - sorry if it offends. Regards, John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Paul, Bachmann's painted sample of 38-727 (BR-owned FLAT WC) is in non-fitted grey, but it seems to carry vacuum brake fittings. Do you know if any / all of the wagons acquired by BR had their vacuum brake fittings removed / disconnected, which would justify the grey livery? Regards, John Isherwood. Some had vacuum-brake fittings removed, some didn't. I've just looked at a couple of photos that someone sent me (and which I can't post on here) which showed a pair of Warflats with bolsters. One was grey unfitted and had lost its jacks, the other, faded bauxite and fitted with both jacks and vacuum brakes. We had a small fleet of these allocated to British Steel Landore in the early 1970s for transporting ingot moulds. They carried both liveries, along with 'On Loan to GWR from WD' plates. One or two retained the side-chains they had been fitted with for service in Europe. Sadly, I didn't have a camera, so never photographed them, nor knowingly recorded their identities. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Decorum Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 I cannot wait to see the tanks they intend to include. I have the impression it will be a Cromwell on one (or both) and a Comet on the other (if they decide not to do just two Cromwells). For £10 more, I am curious to see how good these will be in quality. Few manufacturers are down to that price. I hope that they are not simple resin lumps. You can get quite a good tank from diecast. They are similar in construction to most Diecast vehicles, however one area that hard to do are the tracks. Making these look fine, but ensuring the correct number of blocs (some people count these) and that they are perfectly engaged with the drive sprockets is the challenge. Those on the Cromwell sag between the front idler and the rear sprocket, those on the Comet have return idlers and consequently look tighter in fit. (Unless the Cromwell in question used the same F type hull as a Comet). There are several methods of manufacture for these, each with advantages and disadvantages. Tracks can really make or spoil the appearence of a model tank. (Likewise, I wonder what Oxford will do for their Sherman and Churchills). In my experience, people who are good at modelling both trains and tanks successfully are few and far between. I have seen some awful train dioramas or small layouts with excellent model tanks or awful tanks on a perfectly good layout with excellent trains. My hope is that the state of the art model Warflats have a decent looking tank worthy of sitting on the model (no need to go to Dragon standards with etched parts though). A very good posting, putting into precise words what was only a feeling of disquiet in my head. Perhaps Bachmann will turn to a model tank manufacturer and negotiate a good deal for a bulk order. Let’s hope so. Still, if all else fails, we can buy our own tanks, although that would be bad news for people wanting trainloads heading for the coast in 1944! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 My understanding is that there will be a Cromwell tank and that they will be produced by a separate part of the business who know about such stuff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted March 31, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 31, 2017 To be fair their resin cast covered WW1 tanks are pretty good and as Andy says they do have the specialists under the Bachmann umbrella. As to rarely seeing good rail and military models have you looked on here? there are some very good layouts mixing the two hobbies. The cream for me is still Rowlands Castle as a show layout but on here there's Remagen and several others featuring correct military traffic in their stock. Admittedly there is an element who stick anything on a flat wagon but I've never seen such a layout featured as a military layout. So I wouldn't really categorise that as modelling the two together as the same applies to most of the other features of those layouts too. They do appeal to a certain group though who like it all mashed up, more like a trainset, so I don't see it as a problem as they aren't claiming to be finescale so it's just variety. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Paul, I'm well aware of that fact - I was asking whether, with your well-deserved reputation for expertise in the field of wagon research, you are aware of any BR FLAT WCs that had had their vacuum-brakes removed or disconnected. Indirectly, I also invited your opinion as to whether the grey livery proposed by Bachmann is correct; I seem to recall that you have commented in the past as to the validity or otherwise of model rolling stock liveries. I'm sorry if you misunderstood my enquiry to have any other implication. Regards, John Isherwood. John I am getting a bit tired of being continously put on the spot as if I can be expected to know everything about the building/use of wagons over the past 70 years (and even 100 years on occasion!). I took photos, I helped to measure many but I don't have access to every item of rolling stock, nor do I spend my time in libraries - doubtless to the annoyance of many whom know I live only 10 minutes walk from being in the NRM public library. Unlike many others I have exposed my knowledge through my Zenfolio site. I do make comments such as there were Trestles - there is a lovely official photo of these and running numbers in the records held by the NRM. Also, and more to the point I really dislike commenting on pre-production samples as I know that these can alter. Unlike some other Bachmann/Heljan/TMC/Oxford/Lionheart models I've not had any input into the Bachmann models since proposing the subject aeons ago. As I say I do not work for Bachmann and therefore do not have access to the extensive file they will have built up on this subject, some from public sources and others from private ones. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 John I am getting a bit tired of being continously put on the spot as if I can be expected to know everything about the building/use of wagons over the past 70 years (and even 100 years on occasion!). I took photos, I helped to measure many but I don't have access to every item of rolling stock, nor do I spend my time in libraries - doubtless to the annoyance of many whom know I live only 10 minutes walk from being in the NRM public library. Unlike many others I have exposed my knowledge through my Zenfolio site. I do make comments such as there were Trestles - there is a lovely official photo of these and running numbers in the records held by the NRM. Also, and more to the point I really dislike commenting on pre-production samples as I know that these can alter. Unlike some other Bachmann/Heljan/TMC/Oxford/Lionheart models I've not had any input into the Bachmann models since proposing the subject aeons ago. As I say I do not work for Bachmann and therefore do not have access to the extensive file they will have built up on this subject, some from public sources and others from private ones. Paul Paul, Your position is adundantly clear. I had understood from your participation in numerous threads related to wagon matters that you enjoyed such discussions - clearly I misread your motives. I merely asked a question relating to a particular prototype; I did not expect you to pass judgement on the authenticity of Bachmann's model. Moreover, you did post "I wrote to Merl Evans aeons ago kicking this off, there are quite a lot of possibilities ...........". A simple "'Fraid not" would have been better received. Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 (edited) I have several images in my collection taken by a South Wales enthusiast at Roath Branch Junction yard during the mid-1960s; a location where wagons (I) en-route to and from Cathays C&W, or (ii) withdrawn, were stored.. ( I am unable to post them at this time, as I do not have his permission and do not wish to breach his trust ) . One image shows W160145 as a 'fitted' Bogie Bolster, in bauxite livery, with brake hoses visible and buffer beam jacks fitted. . Two other images contain a total of three further warflat conversions to 'Bogie Bolster' all in unfitted grey livery, minus the buffer beam jacks. Unfortunately the numbers cannot be read. . Whilst not 'Warflat' related, the same enthusiast snapped several other interesting wagons, including; Rectank EC, B99018 at fitted with small wooden cradles at each end of the sunken deck, at Ystrad Mynach whilst in use on ingot mould traffic to/from the Ifor Works, Dowlais. and An unidentified 'Warwell' Bogie Bolster conversion in unfitted livery, again at Roath Branch Junction yard during the mid-1960s, and marked 'cond'. . However, his piece de resistance, is a loaded BR Lowfit conversion to 'Glaswag' B451120 at Spike Sidings, Tyndall Fields yard, Cardiff. Brian R Edited March 31, 2017 by br2975 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Paul, Your position is adundantly clear. I had understood from your participation in numerous threads related to wagon matters that you enjoyed such discussions - clearly I misread your motives. I merely asked a question relating to a particular prototype; I did not expect you to pass judgement on the authenticity of Bachmann's model. Moreover, you did post "I wrote to Merl Evans aeons ago kicking this off, there are quite a lot of possibilities ...........". A simple "'Fraid not" would have been better received. Regards, John Isherwood. .. and there was no need for your question to be directed to one person, a general question would have received answers if there were any, from others and from me if I had known. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 .. and there was no need for your question to be directed to one person, a general question would have received answers if there were any, from others and from me if I had known. Paul Understood - I now better understand your motives for posting to RMweb. I will not in future assume that you a wish to discuss wagon matters with all and sundry. Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rembrow Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 (edited) In my local model shop I've been seeing a range of 1/72 completed models of AFVs from the 2nd WW, which have been offered to the trade and were from a partwork I believe. These have been mainly German or American prototypes, however this week I saw an M4 Sherman and this M3 Grant, which was a version of the American M3 Lee tank, with a different turret to British spec. These follow the Oxford diecast style, with a mix of diecast and plastic mouldings. Although in desert camouflage, could be used for wartime or post war returning armour with Warflats/Warwells. This was circa £9. Edited April 18, 2017 by rembrow Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 In my local model shop I've been seeing a range of 1/72 completed models of AFVs from the 2nd WW, which have been offered to the trade and were from a partwork I believe. These have been mainly German or American prototypes, however this week I saw an M4 Sherman and this M3 Grant, which was a version of the American M3 Lee tank, with a different turret to British spec. These follow the Oxford diecast style, with a mix of diecast and plastic mouldings. Although in desert camouflage, could be used for wartime or post war returning armour with Warflats/Warwells. This was circa £9. They were done by Ixomodels for Altaya 6 or 7 years back for a by weekly monthly series. They were ok but a bit like comparing Railroad with super detailed models. The price today reflects what they cost then. This series appeared on an international scale with many 1000s produced at the time. The most detailed models out are makes like Dragon which include finely fitted etched parts. Funny enough Dragon too had a design clever moment to try and cut back on costs (the models going for £30+) which did really take off. Like Hornby they too seem to unable to produce their models in correct quantities, either too many, or not enough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
26power Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 Possibly a glimpse of Warflat here? c.1969 - Andover, Hampshire. https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/34528413286/in/dateposted/ John Turner site. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FelixM Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 Here too…https://www.flickr.com/photos/lickeybanker/29488630554/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 Here too… https://www.flickr.com/photos/lickeybanker/29488630554/ Though these are the ones that were built in the late 1970s, rather than the type Bachmann are modelling. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
26power Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 c.1970 - Ludgershall, Wiltshire. https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/34744083920/in/dateposted/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_B Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Though these are the ones that were built in the late 1970s, rather than the type Bachmann are modelling. What's the differences? A Bogie change for certain, but what else? Ian_B Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 What's the differences? A Bogie change for certain, but what else? Ian_B A completely different body? Unlike the warWELLS which were re-bogied and airbrake fitted to older wagons, the warFLATS were new build to a different design. Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted June 9, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 9, 2017 (edited) What's the differences? A Bogie change for certain, but what else? Ian_B The main difference is the fishbelly shape to the earlier wagons with a deeper centre section while the later ones look to be plain straight girders from the side, There are similar fishbelly girders on the centre line but they are only visible from a direct side view as they are hidden underneath. Modern warlfat, Brian Daniels photos. http://rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=13692 WW2 warflats in post 6 here http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?23840-MoD-Railway-Wagons WW2 warflat in internal only MOD use in modern times https://pgmodels.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/img_4151.jpg Edited June 9, 2017 by PaulRhB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
class37418stag Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Hello everyone Former WW2 warflat bogie wagon used carry heavy steel in British steel work as internal user ? Thank you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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