West End Workbench

[jwealleans]

I use two part epoxy both for the roof to ends and roof to sides joints and I've never had a problem.

[Chas Levin]

4 hours ago, jwealleans said:

I use two part epoxy both for the roof to ends and roof to sides joints and I've never had a problem.

 

Thanks Jonathan and @Bucoops - I thought 2-part epoxy would be a popular choice but I'm interested ot know that gorilla glue's good for aly too.

I've used the same technique as you Rich of initially securing something with a dab of cyano  - tack-glueing it, if you will - before lumping on the serious stuff, very useful trick.

[St Enodoc]

9 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

I haven't actually yet built a Comet/MJT coach yet and I must admit that the roof end castings and their joining with the aluminium length is one of the things that puts me off a little, so this discussion is very interesting as I will try one at some stage.

 

I am dealing with an MJT aluminium roof currently though, so as you are too Jonathan, may I please ask if you - or anyone else - has experienced problems with glue or filler not sticking to the aluminium, either at the point of application or after a disppointingly short time? If so, which brands or types didn't work very well and which would you recommend as being best?

The traditional way is to use Evo-stik and after it's all set add a strengthening fillet of epoxy. I like @Bucoops Rich's suggestion, though, and might try that myself.

[MrWolf]

If it's possible, roughen the surfaces of the aluminium that will have the glue applied to create a key. The extruded/ rolled surface has a skin which glue doesn't take to very well. 

Something that I found out the hard way when restoring aluminium / plywood sidecar bodies.

[gr.king]

My aluminium bodied, SRG Phoenix (former BSL) coaches, assembled from kits using Evostik Impact adhesive 19 years ago, are still in one piece with no visible movement of the joints. The glue was used correctly of course, parts not rushed together with glue still wet, and the aluminium was thoroughly abraded in readiness for the glue. This was when I was already hearing that Evostik was no longer any good, having been made low in solvent to protect idiotic sniffers.

[jwealleans]

I did say 'until I remember something I've missed' on the underframe and I had.   There's a very prominent vacuum pipe which runs along the solebar on a Gresley carriage.   Which side it goes seems to be something of a lottery, but on all the pictures of CKs I have where it was visible it was on the corridor side, so there it has gone.   I use 0.9mm wire for this.  The bends towards the end are quite distinctive, but I have to remember not to take it too far round the buffer beam to the centreline  of the carriage as it interferes with the coupling.

 

 

Once that was on the rest is lowmelt work and just the bog standard MJT components, for which the underframe is helpfully marked.  The only little variation I add are the two wires from the dynamo which are probably invisible at normal viewing distance but do give it an additional fixing.  The base always seems very small for the casting (though I can't ever remember one falling off).   Also, apologies to any purists but I only ever fit the outside trusses.  The inside ones are not visible and often interfere with the bogies so they're omitted.  Having taken the picture I noticed that I hadn't added the dynamo belt, which I've now done.

 

 

Roof secured with two part epoxy and then the joint filled, sanded, filled again and sanded again.   I've put a light coat of primer onto it this evening which will help with what will ideally be the last round of filling and sanding tomorrow.    I should say that before securing it I did mark and drill the vent holes.  I dont' have a drawing for this vehicle, but helpfully the vents are in the centre of each of the compartment side windows, so once I had a couple marked as reference points it's easy to fill in the rest with a pair of dividers.  For those who've never used one, there's a very helpful groove down the centreline of an MJT roof so you have a drilling guide.  The water fillers and vent over the lav are on the joint or in the end casting so they'll be marked and drilled once the sanding is done.

[jwealleans]

Couple of days away from the bench on pond refurbishment duties.    That's all done for the moment so once it started to cool down a little today we were back at it.

 

 

At the end of the last session I'd put some final smears of filer onto the ends and then added all the roof vents and destination board holders.   A quick sand down today and the roof is as good as it's going to be.  I should mention here that the roof paint I use has talc mixed into it so it does act as a filler for very small blemishes.   I also filed along the cornice to make it as straight as possible and then added the door rain deflectors and raintsrips.  The door rain deflectors are a very distinctive feature of these carriages, especially in teak livery.  This one will be blood and custard so they won't be quite so prominent, but they will be there.   They're made of 20 x 20 thou Evergreen strip with the ends cut to an angle.  Water fillers, I should add are from 1.6mm plastic rod.  The last feature to add will be the handrails either side of them.

 

 

Rainstrip is 20 thou rod - once this has set I run a knife along the top to flatten it down a bit.   Other than the roof handrails, the door vents are about the only thing remaining on the bodyshell.    The floor and bogies have been primed and will be sprayed black  - one upside of building a BR carriage, you don't have to mess about with teak solebars and wheel centres.

[jwealleans]

Paint applied today in between other jobs.   The body has had an all over coat of Halfords filler primer, inside and out, and then white along the sides.

 

 

The inside coat is for the colour - it makes a good undercoat for the 62/186 I'll use there.   The white is a good base for both the cream and crimson as they're both fairly transparent colours.   It also makes any major blemishes obvious so I can try to do something about them before I start the topcoat application.

 

 

Floor and bogies now black.   One fairly new change to my carriages is putting paper under the floor above the wheels so they won't short if they both touch the floor.   This is a result of running on Dave Scott's DCC layout where the odd short is tolerated far less kindly than on most of the layouts I frequent.   Although not many of my friends have adopted the Devil's Electrickery (and Wickham Market is very firmly DC), the possibility of visiting other DCC layouts remains.   It doesn't do any harm to a DC layout to eliminate them either, of course.  I had some black paper which was bought for corridor connectors but was too thick, so small pieces of that are attached with PVA.

[jazz]

On 09/07/2023 at 20:53, jwealleans said:

Paint applied today in between other jobs.   The body has had an all over coat of Halfords filler primer, inside and out, and then white along the sides.

 

 

The inside coat is for the colour - it makes a good undercoat for the 62/186 I'll use there.   The white is a good base for both the cream and crimson as they're both fairly transparent colours.   It also makes any major blemishes obvious so I can try to do something about them before I start the topcoat application.

 

 

Floor and bogies now black.   One fairly new change to my carriages is putting paper under the floor above the wheels so they won't short if they both touch the floor.   This is a result of running on Dave Scott's DCC layout where the odd short is tolerated far less kindly than on most of the layouts I frequent.   Although not many of my friends have adopted the Devil's Electrickery (and Wickham Market is very firmly DC), the possibility of visiting other DCC layouts remains.   It doesn't do any harm to a DC layout to eliminate them either, of course.  I had some black paper which was bought for corridor connectors but was too thick, so small pieces of that are attached with PVA.

Nice work.  The white primer is the same reason I always send my models to Geoff in grey primer. It quickly shows minor faults that would spoil the finish.

[jwealleans]

Couple of days break while I attended to a faulty strip light in the workshop.  I find it very hard to work under what amounted to a strobe light.   i now have a twin daylight batten LED above my head and very bright it is too.

 

 

 

While painting is very necessary for completing the model it doesn't make for desperately interesting pictures.   What can be done while the body is drying, though, is the interior.   I make these from 15 or 20 thou plastikard on a 40 thou base.   The methodology is fairly obvious and while it can all be a bit flimsy while you're cutting it out, it's surprisingly strong once stuck together.   The holes around the two bogie screws serve to locate it and once complete a spot of Tacky Wax at each end will hold it in place.The plastikard is very light - MJT vehicles are already quite heavy so you don't need to add any extra ballast.  If you're making multiples of the same carriage you can find someone with a Silhouette cutter and have them made - Paul Bolton did me around a dozen of these for D134/175 BCKs when I was batch producing them for Grantham.   For one or two carriages it's just as easy to do them by hand.  Once you're in the swing of it it only takes a few minutes per compartment.

 

I confess to having missed a trick here, probably because I haven't built a carriage for a little while.  I usually put a brass piece at an angle in the end of the body to serve as the lav/vestibule partition.  I'll have to glue a piece of plastic in now the roof is on.  As long as it blocks the light from side to side you can get away with almost anything in the ends as they're not really visible.  I don't bother putting seats in any more as they're not really visible either - the internal windows and partitions are about all you can make out at normal viewing distance.

 

 

Body has been painted brown inside and the roof now has its undercoat.

[St Enodoc]

5 hours ago, jwealleans said:

I don't bother putting seats in any more as they're not really visible either - the internal windows and partitions are about all you can make out at normal viewing distance.

What a good idea! I've been putting seats in using the excuse that they help to keep the interior nice and square, but they're a faff to paint. Next time I'll see how it goes without. Thanks.

[jwealleans]

We've jumped an evening here as i forgot to bring the card from the camera down the other night.   The bodyshell had had the first topcoat, the cream colour.

 

 

The previous vehicles in the set had been done with Ford Sahara Beige, which looked a bit pale.   For this carriage I found some Vauxhall Gazelle Beige on Ebay which has a touch more yellow to it.   This had been painted and left 48 hours to harden as we are, of course, going to mask over it.  Masking beaded carriages is a PITA.  I used to use Euro tape, but that seems to have disappeared so it's back to Tamiya and pressing it into the corners with a cocktail stick.   You inevitably get some bleed but you can do your best to minimise it.  Edit -  for those who haven't done this before, don't put gloss onto gloss, put a coat of red primer onto the cream before you start with the red, or it'll pool in the crevices and give a very uneven and in places transparent finish.

 

 

The red went on tonight.   This is Ford Rosso red.  You can see that there are some areas where it's seeped under the masking.   I'll touch these in with a brush in due course, but you have to let it thoroughly harden off before you do that.   I've painted the ends a lightly faded black as a first coat as well.

 

 

The interior has had a coat of Halford filler primer - the yellow makes a good base for the wood effect on the interior.   That has been done but I forgot to take a picture.  Next time.

Edited July 20, 2023 by jwealleans

[St Enodoc]

Ford Sahara Beige and Rosso Red (or Peugeot Regency Red) were my choices in the UK. Over here, I haven't found quite as good a match for the cream (Holts DST59 Beige Sahara is almost OK), unfortunately, but Holts DSF43 Hermitage isn't bad for crimson.

[iak]

18 hours ago, jwealleans said:

We've jumped an evening here as i forgot to bring the card from the camera down the other night.   The bodyshell had had the first topcoat, the cream colour.

 

 

The previous vehicles in the set had been done with Ford Sahara Beige, which looked a bit pale.   For this carriage I found some Vauxhall Gazelle Beige on Ebay which has a touch more yellow to it.   This had been painted and left 48 hours to harden as we are, of course, going to mask over it.  Masking beaded carriages is a PITA.  I used to use Euro tape, but that seems to have disappeared so it's back to Tamiya and pressing it into the corners with a cocktail stick.   You inevitably get some bleed but you can do your best to minimise it.

 

 

The red went on tonight.   This is Ford Rosso red.  You can see that there are some areas where it's seeped under the masking.   I'll touch these in with a brush in due course, but you have to let it thoroughly harden off before you do that.   I've painted the ends a lightly faded black as a first coat as well.

 

 

The interior has had a coat of Halford filler primer - the yellow makes a good base for the wood effect on the interior.   That has been done but I forgot to take a picture.  Next time.

 

Is this the tape one used to use?

 

https://nationalbodyshopsupplies.co.uk/t-euro-masking-tape-1-5-36mm-24-rolls-t2536/

 

 

[jwealleans]

Quote

Is this the tape one used to use?

 

It's not - what I have in mind was red and seemed to be some kind of plastic.   It was also only about 6mm wide, if memory serves.

 

Day out today - took some of the trains to a testing/running session at Graham Nicholas' Hills of the North layout.    If you haven't read the thread, please do, it's an impressive project.  Today was to test the construction so far and identify/iron out any gremlins.   Some of the willing guinea pigs involved:

 

 

Tom and Barry at the operating seat for Garsdale station.   The boards behind them are the main scenic section of Graham's Shap exhibition layout.

 

 

Graham and Mike Edge going over the operation of Bog Junction.  Currently all trains pass through this point, so it's quite critical.

 

 

Steve Pearce (31A) getting to grips with Central station, which is where all trains originate or terminate at the moment.   Also fairly important.

 

I brought one or two items along to give them a run out.   Below a view over Central MPD and to the goods yard behind the passenger terminus...

 

 

... where the track gang had just brought in their Wickham.   I still haven't found the wheelbarrow to lash onto the trailer.

 

 

As you'd expect given that it's the main thing I'm currently working on, I took the Easterling set and a couple of the locos which might end up pulling it.

 

 

61655 Middlesbrough in what will be Dentonholme yard, currently one of the terminating points.   The current train (7 vehicles) is just about on the limit of what this loco can pull, so I shall have to investigate adding weight.  Even on the flat it was only just managing and on the numerous inclines it needed help.  It is an unmodified Hornby, though, so hopefully there's scope to pack some lead in.

 

 

Here's the part built D7 in its place in the set.  You can see the effect of the painted interior.

 

 

The dining pair and the end of the main (Yarmouth) portion.   I've yet to start the two Lowestoft carriages.  Running the set around a different layout was very beneficial and gave me a few faults and tweaks to work on.

 

 

61655 in among the foreign locos after taking the set round the layout.

 

 

I took 61059 along as well.  Here it is backing out of Central after bringing in a fitted van train.

 

 

The wandering tractors in Dentonholme yard having been round the layout and back again.

 

Finally, it has to be done...

 

 

At the rear of central goods yard,

 

 

 and at Bog Junction.   It's a shame I couldn't get a full view of the signal, it's an impressive beast.

 

Edited July 16, 2023 by jwealleans

[jwealleans]

The coach body was deemed sufficiently dried off to be touched in this week.  This is done with afine brush and a small quantity of the aerosol paint sprayed into a jam jar lid.   You have to be quick but you can use it before it goes off.   Small amounts and repeated often are the key, especially with transparent colours.

 

 

There's some unevenness in the masking, but you can cover a small degree of that with the width of the lining transfer.   Once that is applied, assuming you get it straight, there remains the option of further touching in the paint using the lining as a guide.

 

 

I added jumper cables and the dimension plate to the end.   I'm not really sure why they aren't cast in.  Maybe Mike can comment?

 

 

The interior has had a coat of Klear which brings out the colour and graining nicely.   The lowered section in the middle is where I fitted the piece of etch to hold the sides in.

 

 

Roof and end painted.   I forgot to adjust that jumper cable before painting, so it may need touching in once I've moved it.

 

There may be a slight holdup as one of the bolsters (drilled and tapped 1/8" brass hex section) has stripped it's thread out when I was taking it off to adjust the ride height slightly.   Of course, it's one which I don't have another bolt to match to so I've had to order up some bar to make a new one.   No real hardship as I have some more of these MJT carriages I purchased from Dave Scott which have bogies but no bolsters, so some would have had to be made eventually.   The body can still be worked on while the bolster is fabricated.

 

 

[MikeTrice]

37 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

I added jumper cables and the dimension plate to the end.   I'm not really sure why they aren't cast in.  Maybe Mike can comment?

They were done over 22 years ago. I cannot recall why certain decisions were made at the time.

[billbedford]

2 hours ago, jwealleans said:

I added jumper cables and the dimension plate to the end.   I'm not really sure why they aren't cast in.  Maybe Mike can comment?

 

Through lighting control wasn't common until the mid 30s. 

[jwealleans]

Fair point, Bill.  I don't want to open up what would be a pointless debate, but putting part of the jumper assembly onto the casting does seem the least helpful option.   Having it as a separate component for those modelling the GN or earlier LNER would seem better.  Maybe if the Dart Castings chaps are ever revising the masters they might consider that option.

[jwealleans]

Been a few days - bit of a mare at work meant I got no free time at the weekend.   Anyway, even small steps get you towards where you need to go and there have been a few this week.

 

 

The 1/4" brass hex rod arrived from Macc Models (no connection, but very satisfied) and so i've cut, drilled and tapped a replacement bolster.   You can also see the plastic block i built up around the coupling screw hole.   This helps prevent them from drooping and also, when used as the female end, makes it very obvious when you've got it in the hole so you don't have carriages riding round the layout on top of the adjacent coupling pin.   That also makes them droop and often derails the elevated vehicle.

 

 

The roof has had a couple of coats of a dark grey/black mix, the body has been lettered (HMRS) and lined (Fox) and had three coats of lacquer to seal them in.

 

 

Interior has had another coat of Klear and the whole lot is now in the airing cupboard just to help everything harden off.

 

To finish with a plug - I shall be demonstrating weathering at Thirsk show this weekend.  It's always a good show and for a very worthy cause (Yorkshire Air Ambulance).  In addition to myself, Rob Pulham of this parish and his very talented wife are usually to be seen as well as Martin Smith and Peter Simmerson whose layouts I operate and which can be seen on this thread.   Hope to see some readers there.

 

http://www.expo-thirsk.co.uk/blog/

Edited July 28, 2023 by jwealleans

[26power]

Your Thirsk link just seems to take you back to the top of this page!?  (Tried on both ipad and PC).

 

There's a topic in the exhibitions section:

And from that there is this link:
http://www.expo-thirsk.co.uk/blog/

 

Hope this helps a few attend!

[jwealleans]

29 minutes ago, 26power said:

Your Thirsk link just seems to take you back to the top of this page!?

 

No idea why that should be.   I've deleted and re-entered it and it's working now.

[jwealleans]

After that slight break for Thirsk, back to the bench tonight.  I know Larry Goddard used to moan like hell if he had to use more than one strip of glazing material each side, but it only took an hour or so to do the carriage and all the compartment side is individual pieces.   The corridor side is easier but it's still eight or nine sections of varying sizes.  I use PVA to secure the material.  The interior is also glazed  - it does help the overall effect slightly, but it's mainly to hold the No Smoking and First signs, which are surprisingly visible from the outside.

 

 

There's usually a particular step which feels like the point where you start to see the finish of a model approaching.   With locos it's when they move unaided, or the valve gear is all erected and free.  With me and LNER carriages, it's when I can put the first coat of white on the lav windows.   It's largely downhill from here.

[jwealleans]

Just a short session tonight - window transfers and handrails.   The transfers are by John Peck  - he does a standard set in the D10 range but also offers an LNER carriages only set.   They're very fragile but look the part.

 

 

The corridor handrails which features on many LNER carriages are a highly characteristic and indispensable part of the build.   Vehicles without them look bare.   They're brass (except on catering vehicles, where they were chrome) and run at a level about half way up the door droplight.  I use .7mm brass wire and PVA to attach them.   The easiest way is to make up some spacers and use the ledge inside the carriage to set the height.   This is all now drying off.

[jwealleans]

I'm calling this one done bar tiny tweaks and running tests.   The bar across the alarm gear needs painting (I'd forgotten to put it in) and I need some 5/8" 10BA bolts for the bogie to hang from.  I'll look for those at Redcar this weekend.  Footstep needs straightening on the compartment side as well.

 

 

 

I had to do a little bit of touching in of the cream paint  - not sure whether the lining moved or I had my eyes closed when I did the first lot of cutting in.  You can see the Precision Decals window labels.   Door and commode handles are MJT.  Corridor side handrail also needs a tiny tweak to straighten it up.    The corridor connectors are from a seller on Ebay.  i used to make my own, but these are laser cut, so a better shape, more consistent and take about a twentieth of the time to make up and fit.   I apply them with just a couple of spots of PVA so they can be replaced easily if damaged or I find a better solution.

Edited August 4, 2023 by jwealleans