Horsetan Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 OH NO. If Hornby are not going to produce the preserved KGV for Steam, that means no Bulmer's Cider Train Pullman trainpack! Disaster! This must be made a campaigning issue in the General Election! Set up a United Nations enquiry! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted March 28, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 28, 2015 They may produce KGV for the NRM range though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clearwater Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Hi Was at steam on Friday. As we arrived they told me that KGV and city of Truro are due back to Swindon in the autumn. Nice tie in if they've not sold out... The manor's off back to the WSR and the railcar is due to be moved - didn't catch where Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted March 30, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 30, 2015 Hi Dave Will the king have an alternative bogie that has no NEM pocket to give the bogie that slab fronted look? Very distinctive of the locos i believe. Regards, Ryan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Hi Was at steam on Friday. As we arrived they told me that KGV and city of Truro are due back to Swindon in the autumn. Nice tie in if they've not sold out... The manor's off back to the WSR and the railcar is due to be moved - didn't catch where Hi Ryan, To answer a couple of your questions in 1 if i may (although in a roundabout way i suppose). I havn't been authorised by Hattons to disclose any information on the King locomotive. And i will if i can, don't worry about that. With that comes the fact that features do change with various design meetings (for the better) and could include all manner of modellers 'must haves'. One thing i think i'm safe in saying, is that Steam are mightily impressed with what's been shown them already. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted March 30, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 30, 2015 Excellent to hear Dave. Most frustrating that Hattons have not shared any info to us overseas, even the posters they had at Ally Pally they haven't shared. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted March 30, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 30, 2015 Excellent to hear Dave. Most frustrating that Hattons have not shared any info to us overseas, even the posters they had at Ally Pally they haven't shared. They don't want the competition to see what they have up their sleeves.I can't wait to see something but I'll be patient. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted March 30, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 30, 2015 Well that doesn't make sense. Hornby was at Ally Pally as well and Hattons had posters up showing the Kings progress. All I want to see is those posters. Nothing extra that public hasn't seen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Hence my "tart leaning on a bar" post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgman Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 The last time there was a blue King I think he was laying in state at Westminster Abbey ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chris.trebble Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Having received Hattons announcement that HK15 was to be passed to STEAM, I queried if pre-orders would be honoured and received a reply confirming they would. I have now received a further announcement saying they would not and that all pre-orders with Hattons would be cancelled. HK15 can only then be ordered through STEAM with an increase in price from £169 to £199. I have no issue with STEAM marketing their own limited editions, but I do have an issue with Hattons and feel their actions are not entirely honourable. So, I shall not be pre-ordering again from Hattons and have cancelled another outstanding pre-order with them. As for a King, well it is interesting that Hornby appears to have overcome its 'design clever' interlude with reviews of subsequent models suggesting a return to former standards of excellence. I shall await production and subsequent reviews, but it may well be that I source my future King from Hornby via an alternative supplier. Disappointed and let down? Dead right! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Having received Hattons announcement that HK15 was to be passed to STEAM, I queried if pre-orders would be honoured and received a reply confirming they would. I have now received a further announcement saying they would not and that all pre-orders with Hattons would be cancelled. HK15 can only then be ordered through STEAM with an increase in price from £169 to £199. I have no issue with STEAM marketing their own limited editions, but I do have an issue with Hattons and feel their actions are not entirely honourable. So, I shall not be pre-ordering again from Hattons and have cancelled another outstanding pre-order with them. As for a King, well it is interesting that Hornby appears to have overcome its 'design clever' interlude with reviews of subsequent models suggesting a return to former standards of excellence. I shall await production and subsequent reviews, but it may well be that I source my future King from Hornby via an alternative supplier. Disappointed and let down? Dead right! Whilst I do sympathise totally with you, I think you'll find that monies from each sale of a Steam model go towards the upkeep of exhibits and the museum etc. Plus the Steam one will have 'embellishments' within the whole package making it a limited run, and very exclusive. I think they will, once all the details are known regarding the model etc for the Museum, be very desirable and sell out almost immediately. So in many ways the extra charge, while justified in the 'extras' is going to a very good cause within the preservation sector. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chris.trebble Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Dave, As I said I have no issue with STEAM marketing their own models and agree with the worthiness of the cause (I have purchased from NRM in the past for just that reason). However, my point is one of principle. Had HK15 been announced from the start as a STEAM limited edition, I may well have been among the early subscribers. But it wasn't - it was announced as a Hattons model with a Hattons price and it is that with which I take issue. Pre-ordering seems to have become a widespread and growing custom - perhaps this episode indicates a need for caution. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted March 31, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 31, 2015 What's the problem? Can you not order one now? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spagnoletti40 Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 As another would-be customer who committed to buy from Hattons with a pre-order, I find it is not good faith for them to renage on the deal. In their terms and conditions, Hattons reserves the right to withdraw offers, etc. under circumstances beyond their control but this deal with STEAM must have been very much within their control. Hattons could still have supplied their pre-orders with the 'basic' 1971 KGV as advertised, letting STEAM have its own limited edition with 'embellishments' and special packaging. With the enormous advertising spend that Hattons places with the main magazines, we are not likely to see much criticism of them in the press for this underhand deal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I'm not in the market for KGV "as preserved" so this is all moot to me but for clarification: Is this Hattons page out of date then, and they are no longer offering HK15?And replaced by this offering from Steam? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chris.trebble Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I'm not in the market for KGV "as preserved" so this is all moot to me but for clarification: Is this Hattons page out of date then, and they are no longer offering HK15? And replaced by this offering from Steam? Hattons announcement included the following: "With the HK15 being exclusive to the STEAM museum, we’re sorry to say that we will have to cancel any existing pre-order placed through ehattons.com. You will of course be able to order the item via the STEAM museum store, but we will be unable to honour any existing orders" - so the page is obsolete. As a further observation, the claims being made for the STEAM version suggest that the Hattons versions will be inferior! Caveat Emptor! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I'm not in the market for KGV "as preserved" so this is all moot to me but for clarification: Is this Hattons page out of date then, and they are no longer offering HK15? And replaced by this offering from Steam? Hattons announcement included the following: "With the HK15 being exclusive to the STEAM museum, we’re sorry to say that we will have to cancel any existing pre-order placed through ehattons.com. You will of course be able to order the item via the STEAM museum store, but we will be unable to honour any existing orders" - so the page is obsolete. As a further observation, the claims being made for the STEAM version suggest that the Hattons versions will be inferior! Caveat Emptor! I'm so glad I stuck to the Malcolm Mitchell "King" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 There seems to be some underlying assumption that the manufacturers and commissioners of model trains have great hordes of financial assets at their disposal to undertake the manufacturing of models for our pleasure and amusement. The whole process is very expensive and entails an enormous up-front risk. There are ways to mitigate that risk intelligently, but that toy shops (Hattons, Kernow, or whomever) are able to fund such projects at all is remarkable, but they do. Even the largest company in the British outline railway modelling business had recently been borrowing more money to fund manufacturing than their banking covenants permitted. They did so to remain viable as a business. We spent pages and pages discussing their (financially motivated) decision to not spend the amounts considered customary on trade samples. That should be an indicator of how thin operating margins are in this business. When business plans change, it isn't nefarious, it is people trying to keep their business (which is supplying us with playthings) afloat. Sometimes things don't work out the way they were originally planned. I don't think we need to take it personally. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Have you built it yet? I am in the throes of two at the moment and so far I have produced new etchings to replace the cab sides, cab roof, smoke box, front bogie to provide sufficient clearance for the leading axle, new backing plate for the leading bogie axle box and I am about to launch into replacements for the coupling rods. Regards Mark Humphrys Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted March 31, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 31, 2015 I'd love to hear more details of the model. I appreciate that in the early days DJM might not have wanted Hornby speccing their model in response but judging from the Hornby test model pictures their model must be pretty much frozen design wise now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted March 31, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 31, 2015 Considering Hornby have supposedly been working on the King for ages there doesn't seem to much progress.My money is still with Hattons due to both the spec advised and the livery I require. We still don't know for sure with their ambiguity what livery the Hornby Great Western king is in.Hattons are advertising several ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Have you built it yet? Started it. Only basic frames at the moment, with CSB suspension. Would like to see if it is possible to put in full inside motion, i.e. cranks, connecting rods, inside Walschaerts, etc. Is this something that would be within your etch design capability? I am in the throes of two at the moment and so far I have produced new etchings to replace the cab sides, cab roof, smoke box, front bogie to provide sufficient clearance for the leading axle, new backing plate for the leading bogie axle box and I am about to launch into replacements for the coupling rods..... So basically well on the way to designing a new kit, then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 As a further observation, the claims being made for the STEAM version suggest that the Hattons versions will be inferior! Caveat Emptor! How to become best friends with Dave. How about being a bit less emotive and use a word such as different rather than inferior. At least until you have got your feet under the table on here. Dave has pointed out that he is unable to release up to date CADs so your assumptions are pure guesswork. DJM coming into the market place can only be good for the hobby, both quality wise and price wise. Hattons and Steam doing top class (hopefully) commissions can also only be viewed as a positive move. If I were cynical I would be considering that you might have an axe to grind. Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 the claims being made for the STEAM version suggest that the Hattons versions will be inferior! Caveat Emptor! The model will be manufactured to the same specification but my understanding is that the Steam product may have additional mementos in addition to any item which distinguishes KGV at that date from other classmates; cavete autem Troglodytarum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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