Hattons announce OO Gauge King

[Ronny]

Hi mate, well I've got more things in mind for this model too.

Cheers

Dave

 

DCC controlled bell on KGV - I KNEW it.

[JSpencer]

No - I think it will be a Fell.

 

Stewart

 

Nah! The Fell was not Great Western. For a model to be duplicated it has be:

1) Great Western,

& 2) announced by DJM with a partner first

 

Then some other manufacature will announce a duplicate one within a few weeks.....

I would even bet that if DJM partnered with Gaugemaster and did a Bear loco, Dapol would announce one shortly afterwards.

 

Personally I blame the Great Western for all this mess, they were too standardised!

 

Anyway even in the very worst case senario, Hattons need not drop their King at all, they can just add a pair of trailing wheels and turn it into a Princess.....

[JSpencer]

DCC controlled bell on KGV - I KNEW it.

 

Funny enough Hattons sell DCC controled couplings. Now include that on an RTR loco by default would be a real first.....

[7013]

Comes as standard on many continental locos.

[ozzyo]

Funny enough Hattons sell DCC controled couplings. Now include that on an RTR loco by default would be a real first.....

 

 

Comes as standard on many continental locos.

 

And on some continental wagons as well I'm lead to believe.

[Jol Wilkinson]

And on some continental wagons as well I'm lead to believe.

But it probably puts the price up, so won't be popular in the UK.

[brushman47544]

They did back down on the Hall and built the Grange instead.

 

They have announced their upgraded Hall in 2013, but this is after years of Bachmann enjoying sole provenance of the Hall. If I recall correctly Hornby announced the Hall first and Bachmann second.

 

Except it was Bachmann that backed down re the Grange, not Hornby.

 

I do hope both models are a success if both do proceed. If the Hornby model is done to the standard of the Castle and STEAM is going with Hornby my money may well go that way simply as a way of supporting STEAM, although as I posted before I am also tempted by a BRITISH RAILWAYS blue one and I suspect that livery won't be high on Hornby's radar.

[Adams442T]

The Hornby King I am sure will now be a better model than the Hornby Star.  Indeed they would be on to a hiding if it wasn't, but better than the DJM/Hatton one? I have my reservations.

Presuming that their spec is at least as high as Hatton's then it should be another fine model, so it will then fall out to, "you pays your money and you takes your choice".  I have personally decided on the DJM Kings, solely because of the choice of locos available.

To those who say that Dave hasn't produced anything yet, well consider the Dapol Western and Well Tank, both fine models, IMHO, which he had a big part of.  Plus his way of communicating and openness is a big plus for me.

Competition is good, goes the mantra, and it will be interesting to see who blinks first......................

[Ozexpatriate]

Except it was Bachmann that backed down re the Grange, not Hornby.

Yes, Andrew, you are right. My mistake.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

..., solely because of the choice of locos available. To those who say that Dave hasn't produced anything yet, well consider the Dapol Western and Well Tank, both fine models, IMHO, which he had a big part of.  Plus his way of communicating and openness is a big plus for me...

Then again, in the interests of balance also consider the OO Dapol class 21/29, class whatever it is DEMU, D600, Bulleid Triplets and O gauge class 08, which didn't get produced by Dapol. How much of that lay at Dave Jones' door we just don't know, quite possibly none of it. But it's a fact that these things didn't become available from Dapol during the Dave Jones era.

 

Furthermore, it's one thing for an employee to perform well in an organisation, another to repeat the performance in their own show. Seen some fly, seen others crash and burn. Didn't predict them all correctly by any means. Call me an old cynic: I'll judge when the product is available. Not that I don't wish Mr Jones well, and my gut feeling is that good product will be delivered: but there is no such thing as certainty in this world, and plenty of random obstacles possible that will undo even the best laid plans.

[7013]

"but there is no such thing as certainty in this world, and plenty of random obstacles possible that will undo even the best laid plans."

As Hornby can attest to!

[The Stationmaster]

Then again, in the interests of balance also consider the OO Dapol class 21/29, class whatever it is DEMU, D600, Bulleid Triplets and O gauge class 08, which didn't get produced by Dapol. How much of that lay at Dave Jones' door we just don't know, quite possibly none of it. But it's a fact that these things didn't become available from Dapol during the Dave Jones era.

 

 

Surely the decision a company makes to go ahead, or not go ahead, with a product depends on a wide range of things but foremost must be finance and that is - in a small company - a top management decision and one which depends on the company's financial health and the availability of said finance.  I would have thought that in many respects such a decision lies entirely with the man at the top.

 

Equally decisions made a customers of a company depend on a wide range of thing with the added complexity that there are now two bosses involved in decision making and what they decide can be influence by an even wider range of factors - which the vast majority of us know nothing about.  But in some of the examples you have quoted would a commissioner, for example, be going to someone for assistance if that person had previously let them down?

[Downendian]

Taking Mike's point further - Hattons previous commissions have often languished around in Hattons special offers bins (class 14 D95XX) and their sublime metrovic class 28 Co-Bo. The Beyer-Garrett sales has faired much better (unexpectedly I say) again super model.

I would suspect even having one "one commercial hand tied behind their back" with the Hornby competition, they will still shift many more units than the previous commissions. It may have been mentioned (and apologies if it's obvious) but how many models of each DJM King will be produced? I do think that Hattons will make a tidy sum from this deal. I also notice that ehattons haven't and I guess won't advertise the Hornby models for preorder.

 

Neil

[JSpencer]

It should noted that to date, all of Hattons commissions have made it onto our layouts. They generally complete one commission before doing the next.

 

Admittedly for 10000, they cancelled the bulk of the projected liveries, but still had a model. All be it of the 4 liveries that did make it, 3 were for 10001, an odd choice because the tooling represents 10000 as I now know from Bachmanns efforts.

 

That said, there are fair number of Dapol Kernow projects that have not seen the light of day yet, despite 5 years or more passing by. 3 of them have made progress in recent times. A few new projects from this year seem to be advancing well, but what has happened to our Bullied trio?

[Bernard Lamb]

I thought that the rationale behind the non appearance of the 21/29 had been well documented.

Partly by Dave I think.

No accurate drawings meant no model.

Bernard

[Downendian]

They're basing on the Fred Phipp's gauge 1 model Bernard, which is outstanding.

[The Stationmaster]

It should noted that to date, all of Hattons commissions have made it onto our layouts. They generally complete one commission before doing the next.

 

Admittedly for 10000, they cancelled the bulk of the projected liveries, but still had a model. All be it of the 4 liveries that did make it, 3 were for 10001, an odd choice because the tooling represents 10000 as I now know from Bachmanns efforts.

 

That said, there are fair number of Dapol Kernow projects that have not seen the light of day yet, despite 5 years or more passing by. 3 of them have made progress in recent times. A few new projects from this year seem to be advancing well, but what has happened to our Bullied trio?

I suspect the answer to your latter point might lie in another post a bit further up this thread regarding what didn't appear from Dapol.  Commissioners are in many respects very much in the hands with the people with whom they place their work and that then comes back to the points I made in my previous post.

 

Having seen evidence with my own eyes yesterday, and posted photos of it on RMweb, it looked to me as if the Kernow O2 is advancing quite well through the offices of DJM, the same might be said - although not so far advanced - as the recently announced state of progress on the Gate Stock.  I would have thought it fairly obvious that not everything can be done at once (and I'm still waiting, but not fidgetting about) my 2 x D6XX from Kernow, but it is clearly moving along as are other projects. In the meanwhile I've waited over 2 years for some items from Hornby and nearly as long for some from Bachmann.

 

Another point about the entire UK model railway business, whichever companies are involved, is that they need to finance their work as it progresses and the Chinese are just like everyone else in the world - they don't work for nothing.  To finance railway model development is not cheap and it needs planning so ensure cash flow and pay the bills as they come in (scanning, if done, then CADs, then forward to tooling development and EPs, then decoration samples, then production - with, so I understand, each stage billed as it comes).  So before something arrives on the retailers' shelves it will have cost its UK 'manufacturer'/commissioner well over £100,000 - which they have had to find simply to get the model to the point where we can buy it, that is quite an investment by any stretch of the imagination.  So it isn't just about finding someone reliable to do the job it is also about sorting the finances and other resources in order to deliver the required information to those who do the actual work which leads to production.

[Rugd1022]

Well said Mike.

 

If anyone needs an excuse to pre-order four Kings in GW livery, here's a good one... when the GWR quadrupled the B'ham line between Lapworth and Tyseley in the '30s, they used four Kings to test the strength of the newly widened roadbridges, coupled in pairs running side by side at 60mph on a Sunday morning, those involved being 6001, 6005, 6014 and 6017... imagine the noise!

[Allegheny1600]

A representation of working inside motion?

Isn't that a first for the UK market?

Ordered one in 1930's condition, just because I want to show my faith in this model! But, no plans for a suitable layout or even, train!!!!

If possible, may I suggest the front bogie fitted to the loco should be without an NEM box but this should be fitted to any 'spare' or additional bogie. I have several continental locos with no front coupling but the NEM box is still intrusive on the front end appearance.

My thanks for offering us potentially definitive 'King', Dave.

Cheers,

John E (formerly known as '6026'!)

[JSpencer]

A representation of working inside motion?

 

John E (formerly known as '6026'!)

Hornby have done representation of inside motion for years. But actual working would be a first if somewhat pointless exercise as you would not see it as the loco went round.

[JSpencer]

I suspect the answer to your latter point might lie in another post a bit further up this thread regarding what didn't appear from Dapol. Commissioners are in many respects very much in the hands with the people with whom they place their work and that then comes back to the points I made in my previous post.

 

Having seen evidence with my own eyes yesterday, and posted photos of it on RMweb, it looked to me as if the Kernow O2 is advancing quite well through the offices of DJM, the same might be said - although not so far advanced - as the recently announced state of progress on the Gate Stock. I would have thought it fairly obvious that not everything can be done at once (and I'm still waiting, but not fidgetting about) my 2 x D6XX from Kernow, but it is clearly moving along as are other projects. In the meanwhile I've waited over 2 years for some items from Hornby and nearly as long for some from Bachmann.

 

Another point about the entire UK model railway business, whichever companies are involved, is that they need to finance their work as it progresses and the Chinese are just like everyone else in the world - they don't work for nothing. To finance railway model development is not cheap and it needs planning so ensure cash flow and pay the bills as they come in (scanning, if done, then CADs, then forward to tooling development and EPs, then decoration samples, then production - with, so I understand, each stage billed as it comes). So before something arrives on the retailers' shelves it will have cost its UK 'manufacturer'/commissioner well over £100,000 - which they have had to find simply to get the model to the point where we can buy it, that is quite an investment by any stretch of the imagination. So it isn't just about finding someone reliable to do the job it is also about sorting the finances and other resources in order to deliver the required information to those who do the actual work which leads to production.

I think the old adage is biting off more than you can chew. I agree it costs a lot and they cannot develope all at once, there were problems etc and that a few of these projects have progressed rapidly since.

 

Indeed the fact they cannot work and do everything is an argument not to start other projects just yet and consolidate the ones they do have.

 

I am actually very afraid now that the locos I want that have had on order since 2009 and 2010 are now going to be pushed back by that 2 horse race for the recently announced 1361, a loco I do not want.

 

Indeed I hope the 2 horse king race won,t put other projects on the back burner.

[7013]

I am currently building a 28xx that has working inside motion

[drmditch]

I've managed to build a J21 with (part) of the internal motion working. That one is Stephenson geared. I'm currently (when I get over my house move) building a second with Joy gear.

[Allegheny1600]

I am currently building a 28xx that has working inside motion

 

 

I've managed to build a J21 with (part) of the internal motion working. That one is Stephenson geared. I'm currently (when I get over my house move) building a second with Joy gear.

Exquisite work Gents, I admire your talents!

I should have said, a representation of working inside motion on an RTR model!

Does the Hornby representation of the inside motion actually work, in the sense that it moves back & forth, up & down, not in the sense of does it actually admit steam in & out of the cylinders!?! Some of my Continental models do have inside motion that moves back & forth, up & down but they are twice this sort of price!

Cheers,

John E.

[The Stationmaster]

I think the old adage is biting off more than you can chew. I agree it costs a lot and they cannot develope all at once, there were problems etc and that a few of these projects have progressed rapidly since.

 

Indeed the fact they cannot work and do everything is an argument not to start other projects just yet and consolidate the ones they do have.

 

I am actually very afraid now that the locos I want that have had on order since 2009 and 2010 are now going to be pushed back by that 2 horse race for the recently announced 1361, a loco I do not want.

 

Indeed I hope the 2 horse king race won,t put other projects on the back burner.

 

I understand there are several factories in China looking for model railway work so I don't think there is any particular bottleneck there although when it comes to production slots it might be another story - I haven't got a clue on that one either way.

 

That apart things would be very much as my post explained - the simple fact is that it can't all be done at once because what is happening has to fit a business plan as much as it has to fit anything else.  Don't forget that research is also an essential part of any model development and even the biggest companies in the UK market have very few people to do that and design work and to be honest I can't really see work (which is already well underway so I understand) on Kernow's 1361 is likely to delay that on a large diesel while another large diesel is also going through the process.