Hornby king

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...Personally however, I'm on a tight modelling budget and hope Hornby knock the existing Loco driven King model into the RailRoad range so a) I can afford it (compared to the prices ebay and co currently charge) and have the opportunity to have a bash at detailing myself...

 

The classified section here is your friend. Lost count of how much good project material I have acquired here and on other modeller sites at a sensible price. Just a matter of waiting patiently I find. Or try a 'wanted' when you have the funds.

[The Stationmaster]

Just thinking aloud here.  IMHO Hornby are going to announce a King as I don't think they'd run those teasers on their FB page simply to say 'April Fool' esp as it's several months away.

 

Assumptions are being made that the existing King could be dropped to the RR range (not unreasonable except when you look at Hornby's recent offerings there MAY be another alternative - we won't know until the announcement/s).

 

In the recent past we've had Tornado, DoG and P2 in RR and higher spec versions (P2 hi-spec still to reach the shops of course). The RR P2 has been met with very appreciative reviews on here (and Lord knows we're a tough bunch to please).  In my view the RR versions of DoG and Tornado have also been well received in terms of value for money.

 

We can only guess at where Hornby really are in terms of sorting their supply and manufacture but it occurs to me they might bring out a new King in differing levels of spec.  Although the old tools are fully written down there might be a better economic case for them have 2 or 3 versions of a wholly new King rather than a new hi-spec King and an old spec King?

Quite possible - a top spec (whatever that might mean) for Steam with a premium price plus 'Hornby versions' at a different price point with lower level of detail/finish; very much the same sort of idea as the P2.

 

We know Steam are having a 'newly tooled' model of a 'King' developed as several of us have been told exactly the same thing by folk at Steam - although we don't know when it will be announced.  We are also assuming, partly from what's on Farcebook but also from a past association, that Hornby will be the 'manufacturer' of that 'King' and from those assumptions it's easy to draw parallels with Hornby's most recent marketing ideas involving iconic engines.  And if Bachmann, and others,  can announce models outside what we tend to assume as the 'normal' times why can't Hornby?  And am I alone in noticing the RMweb etc wishlist poll has yet to appear - or perhaps I'm drawing a false conclusion from that one?

 

So, along with the Hattons/DJM model we might well finish up with a 'King' for all markets.  The Hattons/DJM one has a spec which will obviously appeal the 'informed modeller market', the Steam one will obviously slot into their rather specialised market which stretches far beyond 'informed modellers', while potential Hornby own label versions could slot into other market areas.  Alas the cake might finish up in smaller slices but I suspect there is room there for more than one, particularly with Hattons/DJM covering a huge range of periods.

[Cleefy]

As someone who isn't going to be buying a King from anyone, it's going to be interesting to sit back and watch this one play out. New kid on the block vs grizzled vet. Cue the music...

[Miss Prism]

I'm inclined to agree with Stationmaster Mike that the King market is probably big enough to support two players (unlike the 1361 saddle tank, where I remain sceptical), and it's high time Hornby did a revamp on the previous version, which it has been milking for years. Although I can't make head nor tail of Hornby's website at the moment (there seems to be no listing of its products, which is an elementary disaster for any website), I get the impression that the previous version is no longer in production anyway, so maybe Hornby has decided to go with a revamp rather than flog a dead horse, or in other words, Hornby might have no intention of putting the previous version into the Railroad range.

 

I suspect we will hear no more mention of the somewhat discredited 'design clever' notion, but if Hornby's new King is a Steam tie-in, I hope that Steam can be savvy enough and articulate enough to specify exactly what they expect from the product in respect of detail level, finish and mechanical aspects. Despite protestations from Kohler that 'prototype drawings were used', it was clear that they did not do that with the Star, at least as well as it could have done, and the King is arguably more of a minefield than the Star. I don't think anyone begrudges an extra tenner to go towards Steam's ongoing existence, but the product will have to be really good to stand up to what is being expected from the Hattons/DJM venture.

Edited September 5, 2014 by Miss Prism

[Legend]

The thing is, that if there has to be duplication, the King is probably one of the few models that can support it. No different from late 70s/80s when you had Lima and Hornby.   Hornby don't seem to have a great track record with Kings with the 1978 version (with boiler skirt even though motor was in tender) having to be replaced by the upgraded 1980 one!  I can quite see the DJM/Hattons one appealing to modelers  and the Hornby one to collectors of red boxes.

[Coldgunner]

"My word, there is a real buzz around the office this afternoon about an announcement regarding The King on Monday, watch this space... Happy Friday everyone!"

 

https://www.facebook.com/officialhornby?fref=nf

[toboldlygo]

Sigh - 2 more days of frothing lol

[The Stationmaster]

 

I suspect we will hear no more mention of the somewhat discredited 'design clever' notion, but if Hornby's new King is a Steam tie-in, I hope that Steam can be savvy enough and articulate enough to specify exactly what they expect from the product in respect of detail level, finish and mechanical aspects. Despite protestations from Kohler that 'prototype drawings were used', it was clear that they did not do that with the Star, at least as well as it could have done, and the King is arguably more of a minefield than the Star. I don't think anyone begrudges an extra tenner to go towards Steam's ongoing existence, but the product will have to be really good to stand up to what is being expected from the Hattons/DJM venture.

From what was said to me at the time I was given the impression that as a result of what had happened with the 'Star' Steam will be running a much more critical eye over any 'King' which is intended for them.  The only thing about that is whose critical eye do you use?  On here, between a number of us we can find things from all sorts of sources and we have a variety of interpretations of what we find in those sources which enables a fairly well informed consensus to be arrived at - in other words a lot depends on sources and how they are used.

 

And if you want to do, say, 6000 in early form there's an awful lots of bits and pieces on the preserved examples that need to be ruled out.  We shall see what we shall see.

[rovex]

If this is how Hornby are going to announce new products in future can we have some suggestions as to photos for other new releases -

 

A duck's bum for a new Mallard

 

A thrown banana for an updated GWR railcar.

[Metr0Land]

George Brown 'tired and emotional' for the F*ll    (younger viewers and listeners may not be aware of this politico from the 60's)

[Cleefy]

If this is how Hornby are going to announce new products in future can we have some suggestions as to photos for other new releases -

 

A duck's bum for a new Mallard

 

A thrown banana for an updated GWR railcar.

 

A chopped down tree for... something...

 

Edit: dammit, Metr0Land!

Edited September 5, 2014 by Cleefy

[mow]

As for the F....lying Scotsman will Hornby use images of Salmond or Brown?

 

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/that-alex-salmond-lying-scotsman-train-photo-is-fake#27l6nc

[Ozexpatriate]

... it's high time Hornby did a revamp on the previous version, which it has been milking for years. ... I get the impression that the previous version is no longer in production anyway,

I don't think Hornby have produced a King with their existing tooling since the "British stamp collection" limited edition (R3074 if eBay is to be trusted) several years ago.

[Ozexpatriate]

And am I alone in noticing the RMweb etc wishlist poll has yet to appear - or perhaps I'm drawing a false conclusion from that one?

Mike,

 

I'm not sure what you imply there. The poll has long been scheduled for October. Perhaps that influenced the timing of an anticipated/speculative STEAM announcement? That there might be correlation between the Hattons announcement and the anticipated/speculative STEAM announcement seems entirely possible to me.

 

It will be interesting to see, now that at a minimum Hattons/DJModels has announced a King, whether the King will be removed from the list in the poll.

 

Other than GWR coaches (and hopefully a couple of my favourite hobby horses) I don't think we'll see GWR locomotives polling very highly this year. In fact even with subdued programmes announced for 2014, a number of perennial favourites will presumably not appear in the poll (Drummond black motor, D16/3 etc)  it will be very interesting to see what rises to the top now.

Edited September 5, 2014 by Ozexpatriate

[John M Upton]

As the recent acquirer of a pair of tender driven King's I think we can safely say it was me purchasing them, etched plates, paint and transfers for the aforementioned that has triggered all this!

 

I will carry on with them anyway as I have this feeling any new one post cock up correction (at least in the case of any alleged Hornby model) will be at least two years away I would have thought.

[Metr0Land]

Mike,

 

 

Other than GWR coaches (and hopefully a couple of my favourite hobby horses) I don't think we'll see GWR locomotives polling very highly this year. In fact even with subdued programmes announced for 2014, a number of perennial favourites will presumably not appear in the poll (Drummond black motor, D16/3 etc)  it will be very interesting to see what rises to the top now.

 

 

Interesting indeed.  Just imagine that say 5 years ago anyone would have suggested P2, DoG, Crosti 9F, Beyer Garrett, Class 71/74 etc they'd probably have been howled down in terms of 'yeah it would be nice, but not really practical/economic for the big boys to do'.

 

Now, iconic locos such as Turbomotive and maybe (my personal need) GT3 aren't so far fetched.  Iconic locos which had either limited geographic use and/or limited timescale seem no longer far fetched.

[jjb1970]

We have one manufacturer (Heljan) who have made their own niche making short lived, sometimes one off prototype and pilot scheme diesels so I'd imagine that nothing is too limited or obscure to be of interest on that basis provided a manufacturer is confident the models will sell.

[Ozexpatriate]

 Just imagine that say 5 years ago anyone would have suggested P2, DoG, Crosti 9F, Beyer Garrett, Class 71/74 etc they'd probably have been howled down in terms of 'yeah it would be nice, but not really practical/economic for the big boys to do'.

Probably? As I recall, they were definitively so. Not to mention the infamous Blue Pullman which became so notorious for the naysayers that people referred to it as B... P......

Edited September 5, 2014 by Ozexpatriate

[The Stationmaster]

Mike,

 

I'm not sure what you imply there. The poll has long been scheduled for October. Perhaps that influenced the timing of an anticipated/speculative STEAM announcement? That there might be correlation between the Hattons announcement and the anticipated/speculative STEAM announcement seems entirely possible to me.

 

It will be interesting to see, now that at a minimum Hattons/DJModels has announced a King, whether the King will be removed from the list in the poll.

 

Other than GWR coaches (and hopefully a couple of my favourite hobby horses) I don't think we'll see GWR locomotives polling very highly this year. In fact even with subdued programmes announced for 2014, a number of perennial favourites will presumably not appear in the poll (Drummond black motor, D16/3 etc)  it will be very interesting to see what rises to the top now.

Thanks Michael - I must have missed that although I had picked up that it was being put back because of the revised date of Bachmann's announcement.

 

And yes - it will be interesting to see what rises to the top - in all the categories as well as overall.

[Steffi_C]

Personally however, I'm on a tight modelling budget and hope Hornby knock the existing Loco driven King model into the RailRoad range so a) I can afford it (compared to the prices ebay and co currently charge)

 

I've picked up really clean current spec loco driven Kings on eBay this past year at pretty good prices - generally in the £30 - £50 range.  Keep an eye out for auction listings, the BIN prices are always way too high.

[Horsetan]

1977 I believe. Thank you very much.

...and on the toilet as well, so that should get Stubby47 interested....

[84A]

The King is a poor choice of model for Hornby in my opinion. Admittedly, the existing model has its flaws, but examples can be readily found on eBay for circa £40, even less in some instances - i've bought at least two at that price. The market is reasonably saturated with examples over the years - are people really going to be prepared to pay at least a ton on top of that knowing that the same loco is being released by a competitor? Extremely doubtful if you ask me! Seems like Hornby really does need a new `Researcher'!

 

To have really put the cat amongst the pigeons, Hornby should have certainly looked into a Thompson Pacific. With Bachmann still clambering to release models from circa two years ago, it would have been the perfect complement to the Gresley P2, regardless of which A2 (or even A1) was produced. Not only that, it would have sold perfectly alongside existing Hornby Gresley 61ft 6in models and also forthcoming Bachmann Thompson stock. Yes, its another Eastern pacific, but you only have to look at the market to see the success they bring.

 

In comparison, the King can be complimented with the Castle models, the forthcoming Hall and existing Hawksworth coaches. The market is flooded with Castles, admittedly not new ones, but flooded all the same - many sold cheaply on eBay. Hall's generally dont sell well, with many examples found fairly cheap second hand, with the same said for Hawksworth coaching stock. People will of course be interested in a King, but Hornby should really be looking at the bigger picture - why just sell a loco when you can sell a loco and a rake of coaches to match?

 

All of this coming from someone living a stones throw away from 84A!

[JSpencer]

Looking at where Hornby are now, it seems they have been working on this for a long time and people have been asking for a new King too. What Hornby (or anyone else for that matter not in the know) could not predict was that a competitor would annouce one just before Hornby did.

 

They seem to have completed a lot of work too, which I think will be hard for them to stop now.

 

As to whether or not detailed Great Western 4-6-0 locos sell well or not, I have no opinion really and won't comment on whether or not their market research was correct.

[Cleefy]

The King is a poor choice of model for Hornby in my opinion. Admittedly, the existing model has its flaws, but examples can be readily found on eBay for circa £40, even less in some instances - i've bought at least two at that price. The market is reasonably saturated with examples over the years - are people really going to be prepared to pay at least a ton on top of that knowing that the same loco is being released by a competitor? Extremely doubtful if you ask me! Seems like Hornby really does need a new `Researcher'!

 

We shall, apparently, find out later today, but if the model is in partnership with Steam then aren't they partly responsible for this 'poor choice'?

 

If I were in the market for a King, I would, believe it or nay, be hoping for a Design Clever job around the same price as the DoG/P2 (i.e. £125 give or take). That would at least give us a clear choice. Two 'full fat' models for the thick end of £200 - not so much.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Cleefy

[Andy Y]

I had picked up that it was being put back because of the revised date of Bachmann's announcement.

 

 

That was part of the reason for the spring to summer jump plus the workload of doing the poll. It wasn't anticipated that there would be such a rash of announcements during August/September too.