RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted September 14, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 14, 2014 Quite agree, everyone has models which are best left hidden away. There is only one way to gain experience and that's to do it, but it's not a race and you will be your own harshest judge. That's best seen as a positive, as you say "get inspired to do better". Two things to add.... There is nothing wrong with compromise - every model ever made has some level of compromise - perfection is unavailable Keep in mind at all times that railway modelling is done for fun, when it stops being fun maybe it's time to take up bird-watching or photographing butterflies. This doesn't mean it shouldn't be taken seriously - I only get fun out of it if I do that - just like my bird-watching or butterfly photography! Spot on Chaz, totally agree. I moved to 7mm to challenge myself and do things previously done by others in a team environment. So far I've: Built some baseboards from ply Built points and track to O-MF standard Built brass wagons Started building a loco 18 months ago I'd have laughed if you'd told me I could do all this, after all I just do the scenics on layouts. But here I am , I've grasped the nettle and have stopped finding reasons not to do stuff that previously scared me. The biggest help of all has been creating threads on here and getting absolutely tremendous support and advice from accomplished modellers. I'm very grateful for the time and effort they have expended in dragging me into making track, wagons and my 1366 loco. I really don't think 7mm has seen its best days but I do think that how people approach it has changed. I'll also say that I think its changed for the better. Forums like this have made the knowledge and skills more accessible and IMO have gone a long way to de-mistifying the dark arts. Oh, and even though I've got the odd grey hair I'm a long way off retirement! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted September 14, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 14, 2014 Going back to Steve's original post, I for one would appreciate more mixed media loco kits, if only to reduce the amount of time I spend building them. I may be different in my attitude to building kits than some as I find a lot of them frustrating rather than enjoyable. Some kits seem to be simply designed for filling your every available spare minute which if you work full time and simply just want the end result can result in welcoming an RTR example! Not every item of rolling stock needs the "why use one bit when 20 will do" attitude. Regarding kit manufacturers retiring/selling up etc, a lot of kits (and parts) have been around for many years and are never updated. It seems once they are "out there" that's it until production stops. IMHO some would benefit from handing over to new blood, more inclined to go through the range and bring a bit of "new&improved" to the products. I'm sure 3D printing will steadily improve and allow regular and faster improvements to kits & bits as the technology becomes more the "norm". If a newbie to 7mm who has come from an RTR background picks up a poor/difficult/old kit as their first one and thinks thats what O gauge is all about, it could put them off! Anyway, incoherent rant mode "off".....and yes I've just bought a Connoiseur 02 kit and very nice it looks too but if an RTR one had been available........ Jon F. Another 7mm RMwebber buying an O2. Looks like Jim has a winner on his hands. Now if he'll just do a Beattie Well Tank I'd be over the moon! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 I'm realistic that I'm never going to achieve loco+10 in the space I have for the foreseeable future, and as retirement is at least 25 years away (unless I win the lottery) then I guess I need to "think smaller" than I'd like. Not that my pocket will reach to a 10 coach train at the moment either... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted September 14, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 14, 2014 I agree totally with this. I would also like to add the thing that stops a lot of people is their lack of faith in their own ability. We all started somewhere, and I know my first models would not cut the mustard now, whether airfix or whatever They see lovely models on here and get put off. I look at the same models and wish I was as good, and then get inspired to do better.I think one of the most offputting things is an unpainted brass kit cleaned to within an inch of its life and polished up. I've looked at them before now in kit manufacturers displays and noted not a hint of stray solder. You then think back to your own efforts and feel, well, inadequate. I only found out a few years ago about the effort folk go to with fibreglass brushes etc to clean them up. For years I thought that the kits were just very well soldered! Muppet. Now that I realise that it's OK to have a bit of excess solder around the joints, because it can be cleaned up, there's less pressure - I'm not aiming for the impossible. As I'm finding with my first kit. 'difficult' is achievable with determined effort and perseverance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 Another 7mm RMwebber buying an O2. Looks like Jim has a winner on his hands. Now if he'll just do a Beattie Well Tank I'd be over the moon! Naa already got one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted September 15, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 15, 2014 I think one of the most offputting things is an unpainted brass kit cleaned to within an inch of its life and polished up. I've looked at them before now in kit manufacturers displays and noted not a hint of stray solder. You then think back to your own efforts and feel, well, inadequate. I only found out a few years ago about the effort folk go to with fibreglass brushes etc to clean them up. For years I thought that the kits were just very well soldered! Muppet. Now that I realise that it's OK to have a bit of excess solder around the joints, because it can be cleaned up, there's less pressure - I'm not aiming for the impossible. As I'm finding with my first kit. 'difficult' is achievable with determined effort and perseverance. Not true in the case of our display models, most of them are test etch builds with very little cleaning up - and they certainly aren't shiny. They are however designed to be soldered together with the iron and the mess on the inside or underneath where it doesn't show. Michael Edge Judith Edge kits Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianwales Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 Not every item of rolling stock needs the "why use one bit when 20 will do" attitude. Jon F. Hi Couldn't have put it better myself, Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
puddlejumper Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 Certainly is. Drill through your neighbour's wall while he's out? What if it's a she??? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted September 15, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 15, 2014 What if it's a she??? Smile nicely? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted September 15, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 15, 2014 Friends who are far better loco builders than me tell me it is a lot easier to avoid putting too much solder on in preference to removing it afterwards. I have yet to master the technique. One suggestion is not to spread the flux too far it only encourages the solder to spread. Hence I have bought one of the CPL flux pens to try. One of the friends was the late Brian Broumpton his 517 looked to have been machined out of solid NS. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted September 15, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 15, 2014 Naa already got one. That's the one you're going to post to me for safekeeping isn't it.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 Friends who are far better loco builders than me tell me it is a lot easier to avoid putting too much solder on in preference to removing it afterwards. I have yet to master the technique. One suggestion is not to spread the flux too far it only encourages the solder to spread. Agree about not putting too much solder on - buy solder as wire and use a razor blade to cut a little bit, place it in the joint with tweezers - you can always add more. On flux I do the opposite Don. I use loads of liquid flux along a joint - if the solder flows along the joint that's good. It ends up as a thin film which doesn't need removing. Unless you are planning to leave it in an unpainted state the primer will cover the solder and no trace will show. The only bit that will need removing is usually the little bump raised when the iron was withdrawn. Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 I did once see someone at a little local show "demonstrating" how to solder a brass kit together. He was using resin-cored electrical solder with no other flux feeding it directly onto none too clean brass. The result was appalling, with great 'orrid lumps all over and I suspect some very dodgy joints. I had to turn away - made me feel quite ill...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted September 15, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 15, 2014 I remember Martin Brent showing me that decent flux was more important than cleaning the brass first. I still prefer to clean it though Belt and Braces makes sense. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ROSSPOP Posted September 15, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 15, 2014 If you want to be successful with soldering especially in 7mm you will need plenty of heat and a selection of fluxes , and solders as well as cleaning the materials being soldered. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 I'm realistic that I'm never going to achieve loco+10 in the space I have for the foreseeable future, and as retirement is at least 25 years away (unless I win the lottery) then I guess I need to "think smaller" than I'd like. Not that my pocket will reach to a 10 coach train at the moment either... T scale perhaps is the answer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fay Posted September 15, 2014 Author Share Posted September 15, 2014 I'm quite surprised S scale hasn't been more popular, bigger than OO so you get the presence like O gauge but not as big so you can get more in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 I think that 0 FS has a positive future providing we all remember to support the suppliers who back the scale. Although I'm commited to FS myself for the forseeable future, I'd also like to think Scale7 is the future of 7mm as it is a step up in standards from 0FS. I'll probably cause a sharp intake of breath here as S7 seems "construction led" but maybe PECO could support it by offering an RTR option to their track products. After all, their points were designed yonks ago to accomodate all sorts of standards and haven't really been upgraded in the same way that their OO stuff has. (Code 75 etc). With RTR track available it would pave the way for improved standards in the long run. 7mm scale is still seen as a bit "odd" in some quarters though. I long ago fell out with the model bus industry (and the MBF), most of whom refuse to accept that 7mm / 0 gauge seems to exist. I badgered as many of the smaller kit suppliers as I could for a resin 7mm bus kit, the like of which they were turning out to a fairly high standard in 4mm. They all refused, saying that bus modellers tend to have collections and 7mm scale would then be too large for most collectors. Strangely it didn't seem to stop some of them from producing a few 1:50 scale kits! . Thankfully Wistow and Radley Models have gone a small way to providing something suitable. Jon F Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 I'm quite surprised S scale hasn't been more popular, bigger than OO so you get the presence like O gauge but not as big so you can get more in. I'm not sure I agree with you. When I have seen S scale layouts they haven't looked that much bigger than 4mm and IMHO lack the presence of O. No, I think the attraction of S is that it necessarily involves a lot of scratchbuilding. In fact I seem to recall one of it's exponents calling it the S for scratchbuilders' scale. Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted September 16, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 16, 2014 You have hit on probably the major benefit of 0 gauge Chaz. It is the first scale where there is a real feeling of weight and presence. You can create that feeling in photos of smaller scales but not in front of your eyes. It also affects how the vehicles run. This is not a knock at smaller scales (I also model in 2mm) just an observation of the difference.Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 You have hit on probably the major benefit of 0 gauge Chaz. It is the first scale where there is a real feeling of weight and presence. You can create that feeling in photos of smaller scales but not in front of your eyes. It also affects how the vehicles run. This is not a knock at smaller scales (I also model in 2mm) just an observation of the difference.Don Quite so Don. "weight and presence" is exactly right. I have seen it argued that O gauge is a better bet if your eyes are starting to go. Not so in my opinion - the level of detail is necessarily greater. No, if that's why you are moving to a larger scale get yourself a better pair of specs instead. One other benefit that is becoming more telling - more space inside locos for DCC decoders, keep-alives, speakers, puffing smoke generators etc. Try cramming that lot into a 4mm Beattie Well Tank. Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fay Posted September 16, 2014 Author Share Posted September 16, 2014 Oh no I fully agree, it was the presence of O that drew me to it. What I was saying was S is a bigger scale and I'm just surprised it isn't more popular. But then it is more of a scratch builders scale. Having said that it's a long time since I personally seen an S scale layout Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianwales Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Oh no I fully agree, it was the presence of O that drew me to it. It was Canton and also a certain two tone green that enticed me into 7mm Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
81A Oldoak Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Me too. It was size and mass (or should that be weight?) that attracted me. I also agree with Chaz Harrison that 7mm scale is not suited to failing eye-sight. Au contraire, RTR N gauge is a better bet because much detail can be ignored as we learned from our maiden model of the GWR Manor. I think It's like art; N for the Impressionists, O for the Realists. But Mrs Chaz might have a view on that. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Oh no I fully agree, it was the presence of O that drew me to it. What I was saying was S is a bigger scale and I'm just surprised it isn't more popular. But then it is more of a scratch builders scale. Having said that it's a long time since I personally seen an S scale layout There's a bit of R-T-R "scale" (as opposed to 'hi-rail') S Scale in US outline; the problem for me is that prices either parrallel, or exceed, O Scale. So whilst I'd like to try it, as I don't really like being in the "mainstream" with everybody else*, it just isn't viable as an alternative to the stock I've already built up in O Scale. * Fortunately for me, 2-rail US-outline O Scale is still far from 'mainstream' - on either side of The Pond..!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.