Oxfordrail - Adams Radial

[BlackRat]

Measured against what.....a target date?

 

We all sent targets dont we, or goals, or aims?

 

I really can't understand why your getting your knickers in such a twist, most do t seem to be that bothered.

 

It'll happen........drekly as we say in Cornwall.

 

In the meanwhile find something else to worry about.

[2ManySpams]

For a moment I thought the world was ending but then I realised that it was just toy trains. Phew.

[DJM Dave]

To pinch a phrase from the terraces:

It's all gone quiet over there, it's all gone quiet...

Test shots promised to be shown Q1 (gone) and then April (2 hours left).

It's a shame the new broom has contracted Hornby and Bachmann disease so soon...

Go on. Prove me wrong and update the website now. Quietly frankly last update on January 20 and nothing since doesn't bode well for what we all hoped was a serious player.

After initial fanfare, even DJM are not taking their website seriously and had to be pressured into putting something up on the Class 71 after Hornby did their blog. Before that the latest news was November 14 last year and there is still no updates about all the other models announced.

Well, if your that interested in DJM, you would surely have read that I would only post progress reports when I had something to say?

 

As I have said on here many times, that progress is purely waiting for the first products to hit the shops to allow for re investment.

If you wish me to say things or make things up blatantly so you feel 'in touch' with developments then you will be disappointed.

 

As for Oxford, they are probably taking the same stance as I am with their model and that is 'don't give a sucker an even break' , and that is, why, when you have a competitor making (quite coincidentally you understand) 3 competing models made by third parties, should you tell them how your getting along?

 

Bottom line is you shouldn't, and I won't, and I fully support Oxford fully by taking this stance if they are doing so, even if both I and Oxford one day announce the same product.

 

Cheers

Dave

[Vistisen]

>snip>

 

Bottom line is you shouldn't, and I won't, and I fully support Oxford fully by taking this stance if they are doing so, even if both I and Oxford one day announce the same product.

 

Cheers

Dave

Now that really would be fun, the RM frothers would drown themselves in the debate as to which of you two takes the role of nasty villain trying to preempt some poor innocent other company from making something. When perhaps the truth would be that you both looked at the models at the top of wish lists and thought I could do that. Which is after all what probably happened in the case of the current 'clashes'. 

 

One of my favorite quotes from Woody Allan "You'd be paranoid too, if everybody was after you!" seems to apply here. I almost wish the owners of the 71 would come out into to the open and tell us who approached them first and when. But then they would not be able to follow the amazing frothing here while knowing all the time the truth. which i must admit would be quite good fun. or possibly ( and even more likely) they just don't care as long as at least one good model gets made.

[jjb1970]

The only way to view model release schedules is that they are optimistic statements of hope rather than realistic assessments of when products will be delivered. That is true for all the manufacturers I think (well, I'll give Rapido the benefit of the doubt as their APT does seem to be progressing pretty quickly and as planned), whether it is good or bad doesn't matter as it is what it is. Just accept it and while you wait there are plenty of other releases to drool over and buy. I do think that perhaps some manufacturers really fall down badly in mismanaging expectations, but c'est la vie. When Oxford Rail start shipping models then judge them as models, nothing more and nothing less.

[Cross Fell]

'As for Oxford, they are probably taking the same stance as I am with their model and that is 'don't give a sucker an even break' , and that is, why, when you have a competitor making (quite coincidentally you understand) 3 competing models made by third parties, should you tell them how your getting along?'

 

By not telling a competitor how your getting along you are also denying your investors the information. It doesnt seem to be a problem for Hornby to provide updates, after all unless the competing model has some kind of super secret unknown detail difference that no-one but your self is aware of, whats the problem with showing your progress. It will put to bed a lot of the uncertaintly and speculation.

 

Any model will be as good as the research and development undertaken and unless that information is not made available to all parties, theoretically all models should be the same. Yes there will be differences in how models are produced with regard to details due to manufacturing processes but is it really nessacary to bicker about it?

 

What all manufactures should do is just announce their programme, go away and get on with and get the stuff on the shelves. That will stop the 'i'm doing this but not showing you' rubbish. Or alternatively overwhelm us with details, cads and updates and aim to drive standards up.

 

Either way get on with it.

 

Peace out

 

Martin
 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...As for Oxford, they are probably taking the same stance as I am with their model and that is 'don't give a sucker an even break' , and that is, why, when you have a competitor making (quite coincidentally you understand) 3 competing models made by third parties, should you tell them how your getting along?...

 

 It's Oxford's decision to make, true enough. Their own site had established the customer expectation of an update, none of us twisted their arm for that. If they have realised that this is now not in their best interest they are free to come out and say so.

 

Meanwhile the competitive landscape is changing: Hornby have significantly raised their game and are now producing a regular bulletin communication flow on product development status...

[JSpencer]

I agree that if there is there is nothing to report then report nothing, although maybe a statement saying (after all Oxford did set an expectation) they have nothing additional to report as they had hoped at this time could calm some of those expectations ( me personally, I am not that bothered).

 

There are two European articles, 101 and 102 which will make casual innocent behavior look like colluding and illegal behaviors.

 

Hornby backing out constantly as a favour to others could easily be interpreted as such. Hornby were clearly well advanced with their radial and King when the other two were annouced. Not so advanced with the 71... Either way, there cannot be unwritten rules in the industry which allows one manufacturer to make a stake that the others do not touch.

 

Equally, manufacturers cannot have casual conversations about oil prices going up and needing to increase prices without there being some risk of it being seen as price fixing. If in doubt, don't.

Such cases may be hard to prove, but no company wants to go through the process.

 

The fact that two companies choose to make they same item, whilst doubtless wasted resource or limits returns in this niche industry, is perfectly legit and serves as proof they do not collude. There is no victim and villain in that I am afraid. It is not like a certain fast food restuarant arriving on the high street, swamping the local market with promos are forcing the neighbours out of business... Here we have two manufacturers making the same model, and we are sufficiently intelligent to choose one which best matches our needs (assuming we all want to buy just one, which in practice will be far from the case).

[DJM Dave]

'As for Oxford, they are probably taking the same stance as I am with their model and that is 'don't give a sucker an even break' , and that is, why, when you have a competitor making (quite coincidentally you understand) 3 competing models made by third parties, should you tell them how your getting along?'

 

By not telling a competitor how your getting along you are also denying your investors the information. It doesnt seem to be a problem for Hornby to provide updates, after all unless the competing model has some kind of super secret unknown detail difference that no-one but your self is aware of, whats the problem with showing your progress. It will put to bed a lot of the uncertaintly and speculation.

 

Any model will be as good as the research and development undertaken and unless that information is not made available to all parties, theoretically all models should be the same. Yes there will be differences in how models are produced with regard to details due to manufacturing processes but is it really nessacary to bicker about it?

 

What all manufactures should do is just announce their programme, go away and get on with and get the stuff on the shelves. That will stop the 'i'm doing this but not showing you' rubbish. Or alternatively overwhelm us with details, cads and updates and aim to drive standards up.

 

Either way get on with it.

 

Peace out

 

Martin

 

Your second paragraph says it all!

Cheers

Dave

[Igor]

Thank you Blackrat and Spams for the patronising comments. In the bigger picture toy trains are, of course, a minor distraction (unless you happen to work in model shop, in which case it's important business), but this is a railway forum where we can discuss such trivialities like model trains...

 

As far as the commercial organisations which are Oxford and DJM, I am simply trying to say that, as a potential consumer/purchaser, I expect their websites to be updated relatively regularly (even if there is no real news) to keep me interested/on-board.

 

If it's not regular, then at least provide some communication when a previously mentioned date/target/deadline/indication is passed. Then, as has been said, there is expectation of news. Isn't that the whole point of of a website anyway - to provide information? It has been said before that posting on here doesn't mean you have posted to the world and everyone has seen it.

 

As for DJM's comments, you can say as many times as you like about the cash flow situation on here, but it needs to be highlighted on the front page of your website so that everyone is clear. The site also needs a simple list of all the announced projects, if only to act as positive encouragement. That's an incentive, a trick being missed. The information is spread out and hard

to to find unless you know where to look on this forum.

 

DJM also shows us why the lack of Oxford Rail updates is something I was worried about. It has actually led to him *speculating* as to why there is no news! Hornby don't seem to be worried about telling people how they are getting along (or worried that ideas could be pinched in the process).

 

Cross Fell's words contains a lot of sense.

 

Its not a sound byte I particularly like, but one of the politicians said recently - "wouldn't it be good to under-promise and over-deliver rather

than the other way around".

[Andy Y]

Thank you Blackrat and Spams for the patronising comments. 

 

It's only to be expected if you keep circling over various topics with speculatively negative comments - http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=user_activity&search_app=forums&mid=12016&sid=e3ecaab0c3456ac8ab031ab115dfc5d0&search_app_filters[forums][searchInKey]=&userMode=content

 

Do us a favour and have a rest for a bit with the continual negativity (at least you distribute it around all companies). Maybe if you were a little less anonymous your comments would carry some weight?

[billbedford]

I've long felt that RMWeb needs a 'Fantasy Manufacturing' forum, where, much like fantasy football, people can tell us all how they would run various companies if only they were in charge. It would be a boon to those people here who have obviously read a marketing manual, but have not yet got round to putting any of its content into practice.

[Porcy Mane]

I've long felt that RMWeb needs a 'Fantasy Manufacturing' forum, where, much like fantasy football, people can tell us all how they would run various companies if only they were in charge. It would be a boon to those people here who have obviously read a marketing manual, but have not yet got round to putting any of its content into practice.

Haven't you noticed? There's a few model railway suppliers fulfil that criteria in the real world.

 

Porcy

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

Customers, eh?  

 

You can't live with 'em and you can't kill 'em.

[Froxfield2012]

I don't want to contribute to any negativity but I have to confess that I have been looking recently at the Oxford Rail website and wondering whether they are still on target or not.  I do think they have raised expectations of some sort of update around now.  It doesn't have to be much, just an indication of how things are going.  And, yes, I am a potential customer for the Adams Radial offering.  They offer a "query" link on the website, so I jut may take them up on that.

[Ozexpatriate]

As I have said on here many times, that progress is purely waiting for the first products to hit the shops to allow for re investment.

If you wish me to say things or make things up blatantly so you feel 'in touch' with developments then you will be disappointed.

Dave, what you choose to say is of course your prerogative.

 

I continue to be pleased with the customary quarterly communication on progress we receive from Bachmann, even though some here turn a lack of demonstrated progress (like the SECR birdcage set as an example) as a brickbat against them.

 

Rapido's communications continue to be excellent and Hornby has dramatically stepped up their game. I remain of the school of thought that an informed customer is more likely to be a satisfied customer.

 

In the case of sharing material design and progress information on duplicated announcements, then I respect the very understandable reluctance to share a lot of detail. It is competitive information.

[Froxfield2012]

Just to confirm, I asked the question of Oxford Rail and they replied that China is working on the model and making good progress.  They confirm that the intended release date is Q3 of 2015 and that they will update the website once there is something they consider is worth showing the public.  They further suggest signing up for their newsletter so as to be sure to find out when there is anything they want to show.  I suppose that is much what I expected and it is indeed their call on how much information to publish and when.  I shall probably sign up for the newsletter, although I do not expect a close blow by blow account of development progress.  My only (very muted) criticism would be that the 20th January text does suggest that Oxford Rail might release more detail (pictures) by end-April and they didn't bother to correct that impression.  That really is no big deal.

 

I still await this release with interest.

[2ManySpams]

Just to confirm, I asked the question of Oxford Rail and they replied that China is working on the model and making good progress.  They confirm that the intended release date is Q3 of 2015 and that they will update the website once there is something they consider is worth showing the public.  They further suggest signing up for their newsletter so as to be sure to find out when there is anything they want to show.  I suppose that is much what I expected and it is indeed their call on how much information to publish and when.  I shall probably sign up for the newsletter, although I do not expect a close blow by blow account of development progress.  My only (very muted) criticism would be that the 20th January text does suggest that Oxford Rail might release more detail (pictures) by end-April and they didn't bother to correct that impression.  That really is no big deal.

 

I still await this release with interest.

A good measured response based on information obtained direct from the manufacturer. Good stuff.

[2ManySpams]

I've long felt that RMWeb needs a 'Fantasy Manufacturing' forum, where, much like fantasy football, people can tell us all how they would run various companies if only they were in charge. It would be a boon to those people here who have obviously read a marketing manual, but have not yet got round to putting any of its content into practice.

I think you can go further Bill... Whenever I see/hear on the news that there's been some financial or humanitarian crisis in the world I do think that those in power are missing a trick. The internet and its forums has a ready supply of experts in any and every area and subject matter known to man. Simply consult these faceless experts and the world's troubles are solved.

 

The only downsides are that you'll never get a consensus answer and that many of the 'obvious' solutions will fall foul of minor issues such as legislation, good business practice, the laws of physics and common decency ;-p

[Oldddudders]

I've long felt that RMWeb needs a 'Fantasy Manufacturing' forum, where, much like fantasy football, people can tell us all how they would run various companies if only they were in charge. It would be a boon to those people here who have obviously read a marketing manual, but have not yet got round to putting any of its content into practice.

There is a long-running thread about a chap in Somerset which would appear to provide the sort of case-study Harvard can only dream of.....

[Norm81]

A good measured response based on information obtained direct from the manufacturer. Good stuff.

Indeed, as opposed to the earlier conjecture from a competitor.

[luke_stevens]

 I almost wish the owners of the 71 would come out into to the open and tell us who approached them first and when. 

The way I have (over)heard it is:

a) that Shildon said "Yes" to one manufacturer and York said "Yes" to another.

b)The one we knew about first was scanned first and the one we found-out about second was scanned second.

I also believe that there have been some "letters" going back and forth which may be preventing information being disclosed.

Others reading this may know more than I do.

If and when we can be told more I'm sure we will be. Maybe be like government papers it will be closed for 30years?

Luke

[Vistisen]

The way I have (over)heard it is:

a) that Shildon said "Yes" to one manufacturer and York said "Yes" to another.

b)The one we knew about first was scanned first and the one we found-out about second was scanned second.

I also believe that there have been some "letters" going back and forth which may be preventing information being disclosed.

Others reading this may know more than I do.

If and when we can be told more I'm sure we will be. Maybe be like government papers it will be closed for 30years?

Luke

In other words we know nothing at all, and let the frothing continue, Including people like me who froth about the frothing.

Edited May 2, 2015 by Vistiaen

[Peter Bedding]

In other words we know nothing at all, and let the frothing continue, Including people like me who froth about the frothing.

 

But we, on RMWeb at least, get a better class of frothing.

 

PB

 

[Steamport Southport]

I remember the good old days when a model was announced at the Toy Fair, reported in the January issue of Railway Modeller and apart from a photo or two in the catalogue you never heard anything again until it appeared in the shops in the next year or so. Or didn't in the case of some models. Still waiting for the Lima V2......

 

Happy days! 

 

 

Jason.