Viaduct sations in urban areas-Did they have a yard?

[GWR88]

Evening all,

After looking through old RM magazines, i found a plan in September 2013s for a small town terminus on a viaduct. My question to those more knowledgeable on the subject is this: Did any of these stations ever have yards attached to them on the viaduct. I was planning a single passenger line and two sidings to hold various short MHA type wagons for a VERY small engineers wagon stable where tightening of bolts and welding could take place?

Any help, photos and opinions greatly received!

Thanks,

Lloyd.

[steve1]

Windsor and Eton (WR) came in on bridge/viaduct to the passenger platforms but the yard was on a lower level.

 

Which is probably no help at all...

 

steve

[GWR88]

Thank you very much steve, i think this is what happened almost everywhere but i was hoping there was an exception somewhere.

Thank,

Lloyd

[Rivercider]

A bit bigger than you are thinking perhaps but:-

Bristol Temple Meads station and the approaches from the east is raised up on a series of arches and bridges,

the High Level Sidings, the remains of the truncated Bristol Harbour Railway, were 5 sidings on the city centre side of the station and were raised up on arches.

(Temple Meads Goods was however at a lower level adjacent to High Level Sidings)

 

cheers

[decauville1126]

Some, certainly in the London area, would have a trailing siding on the high level section leading to a wagon hoist to lower wagons down to street level whence they could be moved around by capstans, horses, or in the case of Bow a battery loco - BEL1. The street level section could include points and turntables, traverser units, or a combination thereof.

[beast66606]

Windsor and Etonian (WR) came in on bridge/viaduct to the passenger platforms but the yard was on a lower level.

 

 

http://www.britainfromabove.org.uk/image/epw056587

[Graham Walters]

You might want to look into Upper Lydbrook Junction, this as far as I can remember had a station and sidings, and was very near the Lydbrook viaduct

 

[Graham Walters]

Also found this :

 

 

 

The station was in the top left of this picture,

 

This may help even more

 

[Del]

Wood Street on the GER Chingford branch had a small motive power depot at high level, so I'm sure your modeller's licence would allow it to be modified as you'd like!

http://www.walthamstowhistory.com/wood.htm

 

Or look to the Gospel Oak - Barking line for inspiration (from http://www.barking-gospeloak.org.uk/history.htm)

 

the line developed as a key freight route, and a number of the stations had goods yards, now long gone. That at Leytonstone High Road was an oddity, because the restricted space meant wagons had to be lowered from the goods line (behind the eastbound platform) to ground level by means of an hydraulic hoist.

 

[hayfield]

Mill Hill East station in GE days elevated line across a road, station and Gas works siding one side of the road bridge and goods yard the other. Embankments rather than viaduct though

[TheSignalEngineer]

A bit larger scale, Birmingham Moor St was built on a viaduct. it had a large goods shed at track level and another warehouse underneath accessed by wagon lifts.

http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/moorstreet.htm

http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/moorstreet-goods.htm

['CHARD]

A bit larger scale, Birmingham Moor St was built on a viaduct. it had a large goods shed at track level and another warehouse underneath accessed by wagon lifts.

http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/moorstreet.htm

http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/moorstreet-goods.htm

As was Snow Hill's turntable and associated sidings.

 

Sheffield Victoria also comes to mind.

[Gwiwer]

London Fenchurch Street not only had a yard but had more than one associated with it.  In pre-Grouping days each company sometimes built its own yard to get access to a major city.  There were Goodmans Yard (GE goods), Haydon Square (LNWR goods), Mint Street GNR goods and Mint Street Midland goods all just outside on viaducts and with some remains of the Goodmans Yard structure still visible.  

 

London Liverpool Street is anything but on a viaduct but the associated Bishopsgate Goods certainly was as was Spitalfields Goods on the approach to Bishopsgate.  Despite many recent and large-scale changes to the area a lot of the structure still stands.

 

On the former Broad Street line (now the London Overground route) the LNWR operated Haggerston goods on the viaduct between the present Haggerston and Shoreditch High Street stations and there was Worship Street goods on the viaduct adjacent to the Broad Street terminus of which all trace I believe has now been obliterated.

 

There's a few more for you

[Jim Martin]

Sheffield Vic did indeed come to mind...as did Brdgehouses Goods further along...though that is more cut into the hill...a bit of a one sided viaduct...

Bridgehouses would make an ace layout, I think. A natural (okay: man-made, but hewn out of nature) amphitheatre with all the scenic breaks taken care of by the tunnel at one end and a big warehouse at the other; operational quirk with the tunnel to the Midland at the back; main line traffic running along the rear of the goods shed; and masses of shunting in the foreground. And all in a manageable size.

 

Jim

[Kris]

Bath Spa had a few small sidings at the station. Most of these however were accessed via wagon turntables. 

[Stubby47]

Without have the knowledge of those who've answered above, to me an urban line to a terminus station suggests a passenger only line - as suggested the freight would be elsewhere in separate facilities, especially I'd have thought where the tracks were on very expensive viaducts.

Not sure what use that is though...

[Gwiwer]

On the modern railway an "urban line to a terminus" would indeed be passenger only.  That was not the case 50 and 100 years ago when the yards in question were still active.  The railway were Common Carriers and had by law to make provision of any reasonable traffic they might have been offered.  That included freight, parcels and all sorts to places not even heard of by many younger enthusiasts.  

 

Within my memory there were milk trains arriving in London and there were goods wagons being shunted and worked in and out of places such as York Way.  Go back further and there were workings over parts of the underground network as well albeit some were to supply power station and locomotive coal.  

 

Land not being at such a premium in the days of railway building it was often possible to construct goods facilities very close to a main line passenger terminus as evidenced by those I noted above.  Freights would therefore have worked almost to the actual passenger terminus though not quite.  And yes there was competition for line capacity especially when a freight worked by (or for) one company sought access to the main line of another!

[GWR88]

Thanks for the suggestions guys, has given me a lot to adapt and think about! I'm thinking of a small yard up on a viaduct witha small coal drop into a merchant for the odd HHA wagon and a loading dock for one or two intermodals with a reach stacker and a fuel point for TTA wagons. and a short bay platform served by a subwayThe viaduct will have businesses under it and one being a station. Anyone think this is too much for an up in the air line?

Lloyd

Edit: Wrong wagon type mentioned.

[clecklewyke]

Bolton Great Moor Street (LNWR) was a four-platform terminus on a viaduct. At station level there were a couple of coal sidings, with drops, used by wagons with doors in their floors (and presumably later by proper hopper wagons).

 

The main goods yard was alongside the station at a lower level.

 

Ian

[Joseph_Pestell]

You might want to look into Upper Lydbrook Junction, this as far as I can remember had a station and sidings, and was very near the Lydbrook viaduct

 

Seems to have a trainset tunnel as well! Prototype for everything.

[Joseph_Pestell]

For rather obvious reasons, it's a rare arrangement. Building viaducts is costly and you keep the size to a minimum.

 

Going to a smaller prototype, Holmfirth had a two-level goods shed as well as coal drops. Greenfield, Coachmann's ex-layout (admittedly more embankment cut into hillside), also had a two-level goods shed built onto a retaining wall. 

 

The Fenchurch St area already mentioned is good (although some were more or less at ground level as land rises to the north).

 

St Pancras Goods (now site of the British Library) was at least partly on viaduct and that was big.

 

So clearly there are examples. But in most cases, the yard, whether for coal traffic or vans, was very compact to minimise construction cost. That's a bonus for us modellers with limited space.

[Joseph_Pestell]

Southwark Goods has been mentioned elsewhere on this forum before. Cost of construction on viaduct justified by use for high-value perishable goods.

[Fat Controller]

One quite large facility, which was in use until relatively recently, were the coal (later, sand)drops at Mile End; these were half a dozen parallel roads built on arches, with the space below being used to hold stocks of coal/sand. The LMS had a similar facility south of the Thames (was it Walworth Road?), where the unloading tracks were served via wagon turntables.

[muswellmetro1]

Thank you very much steve, i think this is what happened almost everywhere but i was hoping there was an exception somewhere.

Thank,

Lgolloyd

 

 

some stations on the gospel oak to barking line had platfroms on viaduct with goods yard on lower level conected by a hydraulic lift from the platform level or by incline

[Joseph_Pestell]

One quite large facility, which was in use until relatively recently, were the coal (later, sand)drops at Mile End; these were half a dozen parallel roads built on arches, with the space below being used to hold stocks of coal/sand. The LMS had a similar facility south of the Thames (was it Walworth Road?), where the unloading tracks were served via wagon turntables.

 

I think that Walworth Road, site of a council waste facility last time I was there, had most the sidings at ground level with a wagon hoist.