Hattons announce 14xx / 48xx / 58xx

[Ardmore]

 

If I changed anything else at all it will just have been standard stuff that has no particular bearing on smoothness of running (CV2/5/6 and maybe 57) as well as the loco Address.

 

 

I have fitted a Zimo MX622N to my 14XX and adjusted CV9 to 51 and CV56 to 133 as recommended. Compared with the TCS EUN651 decoder that I had tried out earlier (with back EMF turned off), the improvement in performance was incredible.

 

Has anyone got any recommendations for the best settings for CV2/3/4/5/6? At the moment, I have these set at 0, 1, 1, 180 and 60. Although the loco is very smooth running, it doesn't get to much more than slow crawl until speed step 30.   

 

David

[The Great Bear]

I have fitted a Zimo MX622N to my 14XX and adjusted CV9 to 51 and CV56 to 133 as recommended. Compared with the TCS EUN651 decoder that I had tried out earlier (with back EMF turned off), the improvement in performance was incredible

That's interesting: the 14xx I had and returned due to poor running had that decoder, running was very stop/start. Not sure though whether function of decoder or my trackwork.

[DJM Dave]

That's interesting: the 14xx I had and returned due to poor running had that decoder, running was very stop/start. Not sure though whether function of decoder or my trackwork.

I think it's certainly true, and I do not at present know why exactly, that some decoders work better with coreless motors than others.

 

Back EMF possibly? somebody?

[BWsTrains]

I think it's certainly true, and I do not at present know why exactly, that some decoders work better with coreless motors than others.

 

Back EMF possibly? somebody?

Dave,

 

that is a remarkable admission this deep into the project. Surely ensuring DCC chip / motor compatibility would have been of highest priority during design. For me in Australia where return in case of fault is ruled out by the costs involved, to read here of model after model with running issues has turned me right off buying a 14xx. 

[DJM Dave]

Dave,

 

that is a remarkable admission this deep into the project. Surely ensuring DCC chip / motor compatibility would have been of highest priority during design. For me in Australia where return in case of fault is ruled out by the costs involved, to read here of model after model with running issues has turned me right off buying a 14xx.

 

Not an admission at all. Merely a statement of what is appearing to be fact.

Some modellers both here and on other threads have had situations develop with decoders and mechanisms not performing as they would like.

 

Other brands of decoders are not necessarily NMRA compliant either, and some modellers have said that other manufacturers models also need cv tweaking to get the best from them.

 

To suggest in writing here that I did not test is, shall we say generously, 'mischievous' !

A range of decoders were tested, and tested with various NMRA compliant controllers.

[spiket4]

The Gaugemaster W I believe is the one to get.

The combi controller is basically the same as a W but with a seperate 16v AC accessories out put and no walkabout lead.

 

Simple course of action.Give Gaugemaster a ring.

I did just that and confirmed it with Hatton's

[The Great Bear]

To suggest in writing here that I did not test is, shall we say generously, 'mischievous' !

A range of decoders were tested, and tested with various NMRA compliant controllers.

Forgive me but is this list stated anywhere? Presumably the Bachmann decoder Hattons fit runs well? Appreciate it's not in your control but maybe Hattons should give some kind of warning or point users to buying the DCC fitted one? As stated in previous post, they refunded without quibble - so no gripe there - but this could help others?

[BWsTrains]

Not an admission at all. Merely a statement of what is appearing to be fact.

Some modellers both here and on other threads have had situations develop with decoders and mechanisms not performing as they would like.

 

Other brands of decoders are not necessarily NMRA compliant either, and some modellers have said that other manufacturers models also need cv tweaking to get the best from them.

 

To suggest in writing here that I did not test is, shall we say generously, 'mischievous' !

A range of decoders were tested, and tested with various NMRA compliant controllers.

Dave,

Let me be clear that my word “ensure” did not and was not meant to imply “no testing was done”. Nor was my commentary intended in any way as “mischievous”. You have misunderstood my (correct) usage of the word admission

 

“an acknowledgment of the truth of something”

 

The serious modellers in this place would be expected more often than not to use quality and NMRA compatible DCC devices, chips and controllers, yet still have encountered a wide range of issues.

It seems you have been most unfortunate to have conducted testing that failed to pick up these issues that only appeared after product launch. There are many possible explanations and is an issue that your development team must be reflecting on.   

Edited April 6, 2017 by BWsTrains

[amdaley]

I must thank all who have contributed to this thread.

You've saved me £99 + postage.

[Guest 7007GreatWestern]

I must thank all who have contributed to this thread.

You've saved me £99 + postage.

 

And I'm equally glad I exercised my own judgement and bought two.

Your loss old bean!

[JSpencer]

On the assumption that the 14XX uses the same coreless motor as the Austerity (J94), I installed a Loksound V4 chip (see the DJM austerity thread for details) and have faced no issues running this using either DCC (in my case, the terrible Hornby Railmaster software) or just plain DC.

 

No tweaking of the chip was required.

[amdaley]

And I'm equally glad I exercised my own judgement and bought two.

Your loss old bean!

 

Glad I could help 

Now when the Dean Goods arrive from Oxford if they're a bag of spanners then I may be able to help you again.

Edited April 7, 2017 by amdaley

[coachmann]

Glad I could help 

Now when the Dean Goods arrive from Oxford if they're a bag of spanners then I may be able to help you again.

You will be helping a lot of us I expect....

[Guest 7007GreatWestern]

Glad I could help 

Now when the Dean Goods arrive from Oxford if they're a bag of spanners then I may be able to help you again.

 

 

 

You know, I was loosing sleep over the prospect of making a decision on the Dean Goods without the benefit of your experience.  Without your guidance I might actually have to take the risk of walking into a model shop, buying one of the confounded things and owning it for a while before forming an opinion! What did we do in the era before social media?

 

Oh, BTW, in post 1838 you said that by not buying the model (and thereby taking the risk that it might be unsatisfactory) you had saved "£99 + postage". Given that Hattons have directly offered to deal with any unsatisfactory purchases (see post 1686) and there is evidence on this thread that they have honoured that commitment (e.g. post 1806, 1820, 1827) you seem to have overestimated the "risk" to your £99.

[amdaley]

Seems like I touched a nerve there.

Sorry I dared to have an opinion.

Seems like some manufacturers can do no wrong.

I'll be losing sleep over this.

Edited April 7, 2017 by amdaley

[tomparryharry]

I don't think it's a case of doing no wrong.

 

One thing I will hold out on, is that DJ are quite accessible, some thing other producers won't do. You won't get the head of many others writing on here, and in this day & age. That counts a lot, especially in my demographic (late middle age, disposable income, sort of thing). If DJ learn from mistakes (and it looks like they are willing to do this), then we get  better products down the line.

 

I'm still awaiting mine, so I'll hold out on my opinion, until I get it. (Hello Hattons, can you hear me?)

 

Ian.

 

PS. I'm not connected in any way to DJ, or Hattons....

[amdaley]

Hopefully DJ will listen & learn just like I hope Oxford Rail will as well.

It's important that manufacturers & those who commission models learn that if you produce a quality model people will buy it but if you produce a model which is not up to scratch then people will vote with their wallets.

[Captain Kernow]

'mischievous'

Really?

 

Is it right, Dave, to issue what is effectively an admonishment of a customer, particularly in the context of the dissatisfaction expressed on here with the mechanical/running qualities of this model?

 

It's a beautiful looking model, to be sure, but it has attracted more adverse comments about the running qualities (both DCC and DC) than virtually any other RTR loco I can think of in recent times, which to me is hard to understand, given that it features an 0-4-2 chassis with no valve gear whatsoever.

[Dunsignalling]

Seems like I touched a nerve there.

Sorry I dared to have an opinion.

Seems like some manufacturers can do no wrong.

I'll be losing sleep over this.

Have you actually seen one of these models or is your opinion formed purely from reading on-line criticism?

 

As with any consumer product, those whose example is not up-to-scratch are far more likely to make their feelings known than those whose item is just fine.

 

FWIW I have bought one, which I use with basic 15-year-old Gaugemaster analogue controllers, and it runs very well indeed. The only reason I don't have two already is a commitment to purchasing several other pre-ordered commissioned models which seem to be approaching rather sooner than I anticipated.

 

John  

Edited April 7, 2017 by Dunsignalling

[DJM Dave]

Really?

Is it right, Dave, to issue what is effectively an admonishment of a customer, particularly in the context of the dissatisfaction expressed on here with the mechanical/running qualities of this model?

It's a beautiful looking model, to be sure, but it has attracted more adverse comments about the running qualities (both DCC and DC) than virtually any other RTR loco I can think of in recent times, which to me is hard to understand, given that it features an 0-4-2 chassis with no valve gear whatsoever.

Please note, I did say 'some decoders work better with coreless motors than others', there was no admission that there was a fault, an error, an omission or even me alluding to the 14xx Model even if it was posted in the 14xx section, as I often answer questions in other sections of the DJM part of this website referring to other locomotives or even practices.

[DJM Dave]

Really?

Is it right, Dave, to issue what is effectively an admonishment of a customer, particularly in the context of the dissatisfaction expressed on here with the mechanical/running qualities of this model?

It's a beautiful looking model, to be sure, but it has attracted more adverse comments about the running qualities (both DCC and DC) than virtually any other RTR loco I can think of in recent times, which to me is hard to understand, given that it features an 0-4-2 chassis with no valve gear whatsoever.

Hi mate,

 

Point taken, but according to Hattons Dave its proved to be an extremely reliable Model along with the rest of the locomotives I have produced so far. In fact, currently, without taking into account the Hattons 14xx I'm receiving around 1.5% models back as faulty and turning 90% of those around. Yes seriously it's that low.

So comments here about the running abilities do vex me. But my client hasn't complained about returns to me........yet!

 

I can only advise that modellers who have purchased this Model just skim the last 3 or 4 pages for helpful advice if you do find yourself with a lumpy one, and see if it helps you before sending your Model back. This site is a wealth of great information and help and I thoroughly recommend a look if your at all concerned about any model from any manufacturer.

 

Cheers

Dave

[90rob]

Hi mate,

 

Point taken, but according to Hattons Dave its proved to be an extremely reliable Model along with the rest of the locomotives I have produced so far. In fact, currently, without taking into account the Hattons 14xx I'm receiving around 1.5% models back as faulty and turning 90% of those around. Yes seriously it's that low.

So comments here about the running abilities do vex me. But my client hasn't complained about returns to me........yet!

 

I can only advise that modellers who have purchased this Model just skim the last 3 or 4 pages for helpful advice if you do find yourself with a lumpy one, and see if it helps you before sending your Model back. This site is a wealth of great information and help and I thoroughly recommend a look if your at all concerned about any model from any manufacturer.

 

Cheers

Dave

 

Well I got one - it looks fantastic and runs extremely well - much better than I had expected it to. The only odd thing about the whole thing is that the cat is fascinated by the smell of the foam insert in the packaging....

[Ardmore]

 

Has anyone got any recommendations for the best settings for CV2/3/4/5/6? At the moment, I have these set at 0, 1, 1, 180 and 60. Although the loco is very smooth running, it doesn't get to much more than slow crawl until speed step 30.   

 

To follow up on my earlier posting, I have now reset CV2 through CV6 to the default settings (1, 2, 1, 1, 1) and performance of my 14XX at low speeds is somewhat improved. There is no doubt in my mind that the Zimo MX622N decoder is one of the best choices (if not the best) for this model, although it’s important to adjust CV9 to 51 and CV56 to 133 as recommended by the manufacturer  

 

I suspect that this may well have been the first time that many of us who use DCC and model in 4mm scale have encountered a coreless motor, although these are common in 2 mm scale locomotives. It’s been an interesting experience, comparing chips from different manufacturers, but I’ve now got an attractive model that performs as well as any of my other RTR locos.

 

[Captain Kernow]

Hi mate,

Point taken, but according to Hattons Dave its proved to be an extremely reliable Model along with the rest of the locomotives I have produced so far. In fact, currently, without taking into account the Hattons 14xx I'm receiving around 1.5% models back as faulty and turning 90% of those around. Yes seriously it's that low.

So comments here about the running abilities do vex me. But my client hasn't complained about returns to me........yet!

I can only advise that modellers who have purchased this Model just skim the last 3 or 4 pages for helpful advice if you do find yourself with a lumpy one, and see if it helps you before sending your Model back. This site is a wealth of great information and help and I thoroughly recommend a look if your at all concerned about any model from any manufacturer.

Cheers

Dave

I do take the point about the number/percentage of returns. I can only comment on what I know of my own experience and that of others posted here and elsewhere.

 

I would assume that a certain percentage of sales will let be to those who won't run their models and perhaps display in a glass case or maybe not even get it out of the box at all.

 

Perhaps I am being too fussy with what I expect of a RTR model, but I do need my 14XX to creep along at a snail's pace and accelerate and brake smoothly during shunting operations. That would be on good old-fashioned DC control.

 

I have models from other manufacturers that do precisely that, without even any running in, such as the Hornby Peckett or the Bachmann pannier, to name but two, so it is achievable.

 

My replacement 14XX ftom Hattons does seem a bit better than the first one, but the running is nevertheless not yet of a standard where I'd be happy to shunt with it. I don't really want to keep playing '14XX ping pong' with Hattons, so I will persevere with this second one, knowing that I could ultimately replace the chassis with an etched kit one.

Edited April 7, 2017 by Captain Kernow

[JSpencer]

Most DJM models use bearing pickups via a split chassis. This has proved to an Achilles heel on my pair of Dapol's class 73 but not yet on my Sentinel, Well tanks and O2s. One austerity is becoming hesitant, but this is probably my fault, oiling the gears not with electrolube. The other Austerity is fine. Be careful what you oil with I would advise.

 

My Bachmann class 40 with same bearing pickups is still going strong.