Heljan GWR 47xx Night Owl

[Coach bogie]

They appear to be selling fast. Rails out of stock of GREAT WESTERN version with no further deliveries expected. Hattons still had stock fortunately.

 

Mike Wiltshire

Edited June 21, 2018 by Coach bogie

[Methuselah]

.

Edited June 21, 2018 by Methuselah

[Methuselah]

     I've just received my Heljan 4700 too. I have to say I think it's superb. No damage, runs very quietly and smoothly. It's very hard indeed to fault. I've blacked the wheel-rims and centres with a felt-tip, but the only real 'fault' seems to be the peculiar lack of the GWR's buffer-beam numbers. These are shown in the G*W version in the photos on this forum - but not on the 'Great Western' version like mine. It's no biggie, but it is an omission nonetheless - if easily sorted. I'll renumber mine, so it's of no actual concern to me.

     I have a kit 4700, and I will be very interested to compare them side by side in due course. Interestingly - and I didn't spot this mentioned elsewhere, the connecting-rods are three-piece. This is not only a great scale detail, but will inevitably help the whole assembly negotiate curves etc. I'm impressed.

     Of all the schemes, I think this looks by far the best, and of course represents how they looked for the majority of their working lives, back in the days when they were kept clean-enough to see the colour. By the time I saw them, they were too run-down and filthy to tell what colour they were...! Lastly - the green is a good rendition of the proper colour too, rather than the BR green that we often get palmed-off with on models.

     All in all, top marks to Heljan - it's worth every penny.

Edited June 21, 2018 by Methuselah

[Welchester]

     I've just received my Heljan 4700 too. I have to say I think it's superb. No damage, runs very quietly and smoothly. It's very hard indeed to fault. I've blacked the wheel-rims and centres with a felt-tip, but the only real 'fault' seems to be the peculiar lack of the GWR's buffer-beam numbers. These are shown in the G*W version in the photos on this forum - but not on the 'Great Western' version like mine. It's no biggie, but it is an omission nonetheless - if easily sorted. I'll renumber mine, so it's of no actual concern to me.

    (snip)

     All in all, top marks to Heljan - it's worth every penny.

 

It appears to be only 4705 that lacks the bufferbeam number; the shirtbutton and GW versions look OK. I really, really hate lining up numbers.

[adb968008]

To save me experimenting further and risking damage, does anyone know which of the rear screws releases the chassis please....?

It’s not that simple..

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/92905-Heljan-gwr-47xx-night-owl/?p=3113738

 

Is it the boiler, the frame or the keeper plate you want to remove ?

 

This model is built like the real thing, if it’s the motor your after, it’s hidden inside the boiler, the route to it is to remove the firebox/boiler/smokebox out of the frames, which pops the two support brackets under the smokebox to the front frames with it.. !!

That’s with the screw between rear the driving wheels, you do have to slightly bend the running plate to unclip it, and there’s a screw under the smokebox.

One of the two screws also holds the weight in place, that holds the motor inside the boiler.

 

The pairs of screws are for the keeperplate and frames, plus drawbar. It’s been a month or so since I last dismantled it, I seem to recall there is another set of screws under the keeper plate for the gears, but can’t be certain... there no shortage of screws.

It is built like a tank, both loco and tender, and it’s top heavy...when it derails you’ll know about it.

Edited June 22, 2018 by adb968008

[TheSignalEngineer]

For those who want to run one but haven't got an excuse, this one was captured by Michael Mensing at Lapworth on Sunday 8th November 1961 with a headlamp in the Class B position. 

http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrl2500.htm

I wonder if it was in the context of Local Passenger train or Breakdown Train not going to clear the line?

Edited June 22, 2018 by TheSignalEngineer

[robmcg]

Like many here I am eagerly awaiting the BR green versions of the lovely 47XX   and in contrast to the ad pictures used by Rails and Hattons,

 

 

here is an evaluation sample for an upcoming Hornby Patriot

 

 

I sincerely hope the Heljan model more closely resembles Hornby's effort (which is an evaluation model not production, I hasten to add).

 

 

 

 

[The Stationmaster]

For those who want to run one but haven't got an excuse, this one was captured by Michael Mensing at Lapworth on Sunday 8th November 1961 with a headlamp in the Class B position. 

http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrl2500.htm

I wonder if it was in the context of Local Passenger train or Breakdown Train not going to clear the line?

 

Although actually at that date it was the Class 2 position, Class B having ceased to exist on. the WR during the previous year

[Edwardian]

It's interesting, then, that the fairly unenthusiastic reviews I have read have apparently had no impact on sales. 

 

Or is this merely reflective of pre-ordering, which I suspect favours locos that might not quite have lived up to their promise?

 

Neither has the price put people off, it seems. Soon, tender engines will all be this expensive, but not yet.  How this loco in any way warrants a higher price tag than, say, the Bachmann Brighton Atlantics, is something I'll leave others to contemplate, but it's hit the beaches only just ahead of the Locomotion/Rapido Stirling Single, and the fact that there is a mere £35 pricing difference between the non-DCC fitted versions of each offers a basis for contemplating relative value for money.

 

So, it's a lot of money for a model to which the press have given a luke warm reception, but I don't think I'd ultimately be put off buying one, if I really needed a 4700.

 

I don't feel I have enough skin in the game to agonise over this one, as I have two white-metal ones, which was all I felt I needed to deal with night freights, Also, I was slightly jaundiced having waited 18 months for a pre-ordered Hornby 7200, which I did not really need, only to find its appearance pretty sub the whitemetal one I already had. 

 

Nevertheless, if a state of the art RTR 4700 had come along and wowed me, I was prepared to stretch to a third and to give it a daytime excursion. As it is, I just don't feel that I'd be missing out that much if I skipped this one and spent the £200 on fuel and light, or food.

 

That said, if I did not already have a 4700, I'd be scraping together £200 for this one.  It seems to me that there's quite a lot right with it and not a lot wrong with it, and what there is wrong with it can easily be tweaked.  Perhaps it needs a re-spray if the green is as bad as some say, but perhaps a varnish and weathering would do.  I'd re-letter the tender by choice, and I like what Coach has done with the pony wheels. 

 

The only must-do, for me, would be to chisel off the number plates and replace with an etched ones.  Manufacturers have a difficult choice in how they approach the GW cast plates, and I seem to recall there were some adverse comments concerning way they were done on the Hattons 14XX.  I have some sympathy with Heljan.  They probably felt the that they needed to do something more than transfers for £200.  Etched plates would have been my suggestion, given the price, but transfers would have been better that surface mouldings, as after-market etched plates could have been fitted with ease by the customer.  I don't think the moulded ones have turned out at all well, but I don't think Heljan should be criticised for trying.

 

A good release and, if not one to rush out to buy immediately, one I'd still contemplate at some stage in the future (if suitably flush), and I'm glad we now have a solid RTR option for this Class.

 

So, well done Heljan.

[Harlequin]

One part I looked at improving (if possible) is the face of the 47XX, in other words the smokebox door.  For me it doesn't cut it.  So I looked at the Hornby King and that door does look better but even that lacks the recess in which the door sits when closed.....

 

WEB Smokebox doors 1.jpg

 

The Hornby 'Grange' captures the look of a GWR loco door to a tee.  

WEB Smokebox doors 2.jpg

 

A rough sketch of the recess in which the smokebox door sits .... 

WEB Smokebox door 3.jpg

Interesting. I wonder if you could simulate the appearance of the recess with some careful shading? A very thin black line with an even thinner thin light grey line just outside that in a couple of places tapering to nothing? Tricky to do but maybe less trouble than trying to do something physical.

 

Your 4704 looks great in your photos, BTW.

Edited June 24, 2018 by Harlequin

[Welchester]

Neither has the price put people off, it seems. Soon, tender engines will all be this expensive, but not yet.  How this loco in any way warrants a higher price tag than, say, the Bachmann Brighton Atlantics, is something I'll leave others to contemplate, but it's hit the beaches only just ahead of the Locomotion/Rapido Stirling Single, and the fact that there is a mere £35 pricing difference between the non-DCC fitted versions of each offers a basis for contemplating relative value for money.

 

I should be surprised if anybody is paying £200 for a 47xx. Mine was around £150 from Hereford Model Centre. Rails and Hattons are around the same mark.

[JSpencer]

Agree, the Rapido Single was just short of £200 when first announced but with no discount period. Magazine reviews seem to be saying the best RTR (British?) loco ever and I think it is possible the most expensive mass produced British RTR to date so one would hope it is that good.

The 47xx has the same retail as Bachmann's H1,H2. But the latter will be limited in discount by Bachmann giving a £25 difference between the two.

 

But there is no getting away from it, the £200 RRP loco is here to stay. Look at the rerun of SWS. I therefore don,t consider 47xx expensive in a relative sense compared with other 2018 releases.

[LongTorJunc]

Have had problems with ALL my Heljan loco's in the past (usually derailing or running poorly) so was expecting to get problems with the Night Owl. I now have 2 BR Black versions to compliment 2 kit built 47XX's and I can say that I'm thoughly pleased with both of them.  Neither were damaged, both look amazing, run beautifully and will haul anything that I hang on them.  Can't wait for the BR Green versions, I just hope that they are as good as the others. As a by the by, does any body know if anybody does cylinder mounted snifting valves as I'd like eventually to renumber 1 of the models to 4701-4703.

[bike2steam]

 I therefore don,t consider 47xx expensive in a relative sense compared with other 2018 releases.

 

Quite rightly so, considering 60 years ago the top of the range crude Hornby-Dublo loco price was the equivalent of half the average weekly wage, and todays( weekly wage) is £500 + ( well about £520 -ish).

Edited June 24, 2018 by bike2steam

[Hilux5972]

I haven’t had any running issues with my BR Black version. Over Hornby set track points or anywhere.

[adb968008]

Does anyone actually run these 47's on their layouts? Sounds a silly question, but I ask because no one seems to have mentioned any running problems. I have two locos and both their Tender's have been derailing all afternoon. I checked the centre wheels and there is little or no up and down allowance. This was when i saw the flanges are only half the depth of those on Hornby Tenders. I elongated the middle axle holes slightly (knocking off two brakes shoes in the process) and filed the pin points down a little to give more side-play, but the Tender continued to derail. If using the close-coupling hole, the side buffers will need removing if the loco is to negotiate any kind of curve.

 

In short, it looks like I will have to relay one of my garden loops with the more solid Code 100 track and try squeeze the radius out a bit more (it is currently 3' radius).

Yes I’ve had a few issues...

 

My track will make you cringe though.. (quantity and imagination over quality i’m Afraid but until the mortgage is paid and my daughters through uni that’s how it has to be for the next 15 years).

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/92905-Heljan-gwr-47xx-night-owl/?p=3116857

 

I later made up a test track as I had an extraordinary number of derailments.. in short if it makes a great track tester.. any niggle it will find it... and it’s derailments (being top heavy) can be dramatic.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/92905-Heljan-gwr-47xx-night-owl/?p=3118340

 

Since I’ve got it, I’ve made extensive trackwork modifications to tighten up, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing... hopefully in a couple of weeks i’ll Start mapping my layout with the messwagon.

Edited June 24, 2018 by adb968008

[adb968008]

Quite rightly so, considering 60 years ago the top of the range crude Hornby-Dublo loco price was the equivalent of half the average weekly wage, and todays( weekly wage) is £500 + ( well about £520 -ish).

Before or after tax ?

[County of Yorkshire]

#X!%$&^ £*@%!!

 

 

And on THE most expensive single piece of model railway equipment I've ever purchased!

 

 

CoY

[robmcg]

#X!%$&^ £*@%!!

 

IMG_2712 (1).JPG

 

And on THE most expensive single piece of model railway equipment I've ever purchased!

 

 

CoY

 

I must be missing something?   Is there a fault with either model?

[No Decorum]

#X!%$&^ £*@%!!

 

 

And on THE most expensive single piece of model railway equipment I've ever purchased!

 

 

CoY

 

 

I take it you refer to the odd sparkly grey paint on the motion? Perhaps the upward-pointing coupling socket? Could it be the mould line along the boiler and smokebox or the one on the green-painted part of the motion plate? The bent upper lamp iron perchance? The pony wheels or the odd shape of the pivot cover?

 

Are you just having a gripe about the price?

 

The struts? 

[Garethp8873]

All three GWR 4700 have arrived now with my supplier... collecting them Thursday. Looking forward to these in the flesh

[Hilux5972]

#X!%$&^ £*@%!!

 

IMG_2712 (1).JPG

 

And on THE most expensive single piece of model railway equipment I've ever purchased!

 

 

CoY

I’m assuming he means the cracked footplate, the loose steam pipe, and the BR Numberplate that shouldn’t be there. Edited June 27, 2018 by Hilux5972

[Siberian Snooper]

Bent top lamp iron?

[County of Yorkshire]

the BR Numberplate that shouldn’t be there.

Bingo. This is very sloppy QC, and yes, the steam pipe is adrift also.

 

I'm simply not taking a file to a £150+ model to correct such a stupid error, so it's going back to Rails.

 

CoY

the BR Numberplate that shouldn’t be there.

Edited June 27, 2018 by County of Yorkshire

[gwrrob]

Bingo. This is very sloppy QC, and yes, the steam pipe is adrift also.

 

I'm simply not taking a file to a £150+ model to correct such a stupid error, so it's going back to Rails.

 

CoY

 

Let us know how you get on with your woes.