Kernow GWR steam rail motor

[longchap]

3 hours ago, jcredfer said:

We were taught [yes actually taught] that when out, ladies hats on all the time and gents hats on outside, then politely removed them to go  indoors.

 

 

@Modelu Chris is there any chance of seated gentlemen with their hats on laps? Perhaps some assorted luggage items, including hat boxes, to go on the luggage racks?

 

[Michael Hodgson]

3 hours ago, longchap said:

@Modelu Chris is there any chance of seated gentlemen with their hats on laps? Perhaps some assorted luggage items, including hat boxes, to go on the luggage racks?

 

My apologies to Modelu.  I seem to have put the cat among the pigeons!

[longchap]

1 minute ago, Michael Hodgson said:

My apologies to Modelu.  I seem to have put the cat among the pigeons!

 

What, you now want cats and pigeons as well !!

 

Good thought though 😎

[Michael Hodgson]

40 minutes ago, longchap said:

 

What, you now want cats and pigeons as well !!

 

Good thought though 😎

I thought they already did those

[longchap]

Possibly, but you can never have too many pussy cats 😺😸😽

 

[Michael Hodgson]

3 minutes ago, longchap said:

Possibly, but you can never have too many pussy cats 😺😸😽

 

We've got 4, and yes can have too many!  Even though I wouldn't get rid of any of them.

[KeithMacdonald]

44 minutes ago, longchap said:

What, you now want cats and pigeons as well !!

Good thought though 😎

 

Perhaps a basket of racing pigeons and a station's official mouser on patrol?

https://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/blog/days-out-uk/train-station-cats-of-the-uk

 

There was an era when baskets of racing pigeon were regular livestock/freight on trains.

[Michael Hodgson]

13 minutes ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

There was an era when baskets of racing pigeon were regular livestock/freight on trains.

Very much a North Eastern practice.

My Uncle George kept an aviary with about 100 birds in Hexham.

[Al51]

37 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Very much a North Eastern practice.

My Uncle George kept an aviary with about 100 birds in Hexham.

Not just the North East, in the early 1960s my uncle in Kingston Upon Thames kept pigeons. Nearly every time we visited we had a basket full to accompany us back to the South Coast. 

We would phone him after we released them to give him an idea of the time taken, but on one occasion we released them too late in day and they must have roosted somewhere overnight, and arrived back the next morning! 

 

[phil gollin]

1 hour ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

Perhaps a basket of racing pigeons and a station's official mouser on patrol?

https://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/blog/days-out-uk/train-station-cats-of-the-uk

 

There was an era when baskets of racing pigeon were regular livestock/freight on trains.

.

 

There is a short video of a Stanier 8F pulling south out of East Croydon with 21 associated full brakes of all different types  -  no proof, but I have always ASSUMED this was a pigeon racing special going down to the South Coast for a long distance race.

 

I am holding on for a really good Stanier 8F as it is an "honest" rule 1 for me.

 

EDIT ;

 

On this link ;

 

https://www.photosfromthefifties.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/SUR-December-2021.pdf

 

On page 17 of 35 there is a photo listed, possibly, of the same train ;

 

X704 #   -  Stanier class 8F 2-8-0 48544 heading a Newcastle to Hove pigeon special, formed of 21 bogie vehicles, through East Croydon;  -  ¾ view  -  4 June 1965

 

. 

Edited January 6 by phil gollin

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, longchap said:

Possibly, but you can never have too many pussy cats 😺😸😽

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/GWR-Signal-Box-Cats-Allocations/dp/1906419868

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, Michael Hodgson said:

My Uncle George kept an aviary with about 100 birds in Hexham.

They're not aviaries in the NE they're "Crees"

(elsewhere also)

[Michael Hodgson]

9 minutes ago, melmerby said:

They're not aviaries in the NE they're "Crees"

(elsewhere also)

They weren't all pigeons!

[Colin_McLeod]

Pigeon trafic was very popular at Lisburn station in UTA days.

[longchap]

3 hours ago, melmerby said:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/GWR-Signal-Box-Cats-Allocations/dp/1906419868

 

There's a copy on the sheves of my railway library, which always produces a smile.

 

[The Stationmaster]

On 06/01/2024 at 00:01, Michael Hodgson said:

 

Wearing hats during that period, standing on the platform yes, but would they all have kept them on once seated inside the rail motor ??

As 1st Class accommodation had antimacassars that would suggest that - at least in 1st Class, genetlenen removed their hats (otherwise why bother with an antimacassar?).  Whether 'working men' back in 3rd removed their caps is a more difficult question - uness some contemporaneous photos surface somewhere).

[Mikkel]

These Edwardian shots are class-biased (as usual), and dining on board an express is of course different from a quick hop on a Railmotor. But FWIW, they confirm ladies with hats and gents without:

 

 

LNWR, 1905, Source: Getty Images

 

 

 

LNWR 1908. Source: Getty Images

 

[The Stationmaster]

On 06/01/2024 at 10:38, KeithMacdonald said:

 

An interesting idea, and an opportunity to model a Lost Property Office? Hats, coats, bags, shoes, suitcases, umbrellas, spectacles, bicycles, false teeth, etc, etc.

ou omitted to mention artificial limbs!

 

On 06/01/2024 at 11:28, Oldddudders said:

In my era as an SM, 40+ years ago, getting staff to wear their hat was a major problem!

I had a particular problem with an individual at Westoon-Super-Mare.  Not too difficult to get everyone else into line but ths bloke was very resistant to the idea and when threatened with formal discipline  trootted out the excuse that he had a medical condition which prevented him from wearing a hat.  So I sent him off to the MO in Bristol.

 

When talking to teh MO about arranging an appointment it came out that the MO was an RAF Reservist and had come across similar claims there and had developed  his own methods of dealing with such recalcitrants.  I don't think my chap realised what he'd let himself in for when he agreed to being sent to see the Doctor but he came back with his tail between his legs and his har in his head whenever that was required.  

 

Apparently the alternative would have involved referral to a specialist for a full examination of his head - the Doctor was good at that sort of consulation.   Some years later I sent one of my RHQ clerical staff to the sae Doctor because of my concerns about various regular patterns in his sickness absence.  The Doctor rang me and started by saying that he presumed that I wanted rid of the man - he'd obviously quickly sussed what sort of person he was dealing with.  The man did have some genuine health problems which were quite sufficient to get him resettled on medical grounds although there was bit of ill-feeling in the office that someone who was lazy and workshy had managed to 'work his ticket' to an early full pension.  But he'd made one big mistake because if he'd waited a bit less than a year he would have found himself redundant with a wodge of redundancy money albeit with a reduced pension.

[Gwiwer]

27 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

As 1st Class accommodation had antimacassars that would suggest that - at least in 1st Class, genetlenen removed their hats (otherwise why bother with an antimacassar?).  Whether 'working men' back in 3rd removed their caps is a more difficult question - uness some contemporaneous photos surface somewhere).

And in the 21st Century the only difference between the classes in many instances is that "First" has an antimacassar.  Otherwise the seating and accommodation is now identical.  

 

Gentlemen should always remove headwear upon entering any enclosed space.  

 

At a young age I knew that the local quarrymen removed their caps on the way to and from work when on the bus.  

 

At school we were required to wear uniform with caps at all times when outside the buildings but were required to remove caps when travelling on trains or buses.  I have seldom worn a hat by choice but when working in Australia it was a requirement of employment - being outside in hot sunny weather their safety legislation demanded it.  But mine was always removed upon boarding a train, tram, bus or entering any building.  Many colleagues did likewise.  

 

In my final years of employment, which was at Clapham Junction, we were issued beanies for winter weather and baseball caps for summer.  I ended up wearing the latter day in day out in preference to the beanie but always removed it when entering any building even if just to sign on / off or pay my respects to the porcelain.  Some younger colleagues, most of whom came from non-British backgrounds even if several generations previously spotted that I did this and asked why.  One or two followed suit after having it explained.  

 

There is still a measure of respect in the World.  

 

 

[Coppercap]

21 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

These Edwardian shots are class-biased (as usual), and dining on board an express is of course different from a quick hop on a Railmotor. But FWIW, they confirm ladies with hats and gents without:

 

 

LNWR, 1905, Source: Getty Images

 

 

 

LNWR 1908. Source: Getty Images

 

Of course, the male plebs kept their caps on while eating their bread and cheese back in 3rd class. No frequenting of the dining car for them! (Not even for posed photographs at Wolverton carriage works!)

Edited January 7 by Coppercap

[longchap]

29 minutes ago, Gwiwer said:

There is still a measure of respect in the World.  

 

A fascinating post Rick, as social history research in itself always provides rewards. I had to look up antimacassar and was delighted with the results.

 

Yes, respect in so many forms it can take, makes the world a better place to inhabit.

 

 

[Pete Haitch]

Are you sure the cats are not after the cream? Screen grab from: https://www.roddas.co.uk/our-timeline/#1920

[Simond]

About 1974, we had a cap inspection at school.  We were expected to wear them at all times in uniform outside the school gates until the sixth form.  This was late in the fifth.  This made us “posh kids” a bit of a target, though I never experienced any issues on my walk to/from school, I know a couple who did, particularly on the bus.

 

“Eeer, where’s your cap, boy?”

 

”Sorry, sir, I don’t have it any more”

 

”Why not?”

 

”I shot it, sir”. (Mirth was heard from the back of the class)

 

”oh…”

 

funnily enough, the inspection stopped at this point

[phil gollin]

.

 

https://www.steve-banks.org/prototype-and-traffic/128-pigeon-traffic-historical

 

And this page has some interesting photos - including the one of an 8F with 21 bogies at the bottom.

 

.

[Gwiwer]

1 hour ago, Simond said:

“Eeer, where’s your cap, boy?”

 

”Sorry, sir, I don’t have it any more”

 

”Why not?”

What ever the answer the result was the same. 
 

An hour’s detention. And then another hour for going home without a cap. 
 

And so it went on. Five detentions in one term qualified you for the Grand Humiliation of Saturday Morning Detention. In full uniform.  
 

Bullying?  It probably would be today. It was very much an “old school” school. And I detested it with a passion. The best days of my life?  Not on your flaming nelly. 
 

Those came somewhat later when I was earning enough to date without financial embarrassment and to start shopping for little red boxes.

 

Always red back then. 
 

And thus we divert this hi-jacked thread broadly back towards its topic 🤣