Hornby announce Maunsell S15

[toboldlygo]

Quite agree. The clear packaging is too tight a fit and is potentially damaging.

 

It's weird how some of the clear plastic cradles need altering and others don't :/

 

What's required to sort it is a bit of 'out of the box thinking and a sharp knife

[olivegreen]

 

 

What's required to sort it is a bit of 'out of the box thinking and a sharp knife

I absolutely agree.  

It seems that since there is nothing to criticise about the S15 (I am delighted with mine), people now have to criticise the box it comes in.

[roundhouse]

I have closed up the tender to the loco and it still fits in the box. However that was before fitting the brake rigging.

 

Its the 700 that I am having problems getting back in the packaging even after doing a lot of carving.

 

I dont want to damage these superb models.

[JZ]

I have closed up the tender to the loco and it still fits in the box. However that was before fitting the brake rigging.

 

Its the 700 that I am having problems getting back in the packaging even after doing a lot of carving.

 

I dont want to damage these superb models.

Neither the loco or tender fit when the brake rigging is fitted. Funny this is, my 700 fits without carving.

[Ian Hargrave]

I absolutely agree.  

It seems that since there is nothing to criticise about the S15 (I am delighted with mine), people now have to criticise the box it comes in.

 

This is not a problem confined to one model alone.

[JZ]

I absolutely agree.  

It seems that since there is nothing to criticise about the S15 (I am delighted with mine), people now have to criticise the box it comes in.

This is not a criticism of just the S15 box, but of many others. When we spend our hard earned cash on a loco that is not cheap, though in my mind, good value. it would be nice to be able to replace it in the box it came in for storage. Many people have far more loco's than they can poke a stick at and therefore cannot store them on their layouts. In between use they need to be put away. And what better place than the original box.

[Fireline]

This is not a criticism of just the S15 box, but of many others. When we spend our hard earned cash on a loco that is not cheap, though in my mind, good value. it would be nice to be able to replace it in the box it came in for storage. Many people have far more loco's than they can poke a stick at and therefore cannot store them on their layouts. In between use they need to be put away. And what better place than the original box.

 

Hi Jules. That is exactly what I do. I see no reason why you can't store your engine in it's original box. Did I miss a meeting?

[olivegreen]

Have you represented you case directly to Hornby?  Surely that is the thing to do if you feel so strongly about the inadequate packaging.

[Ian Hargrave]

Have you represented you case directly to Hornby?  Surely that is the thing to do if you feel so strongly about the inadequate packaging.

 

Sorry but I think you're missing the point here. The packaging is not inadequate.It holds the model securely in place.The difficulty arises....and this is not confined to the S15......when it is removed or replaced in the "bubble"and bits and pieces are displaced because the fit is simply too snug.I suspect that if Hornby were questioned on this they would reply that it has to be this way because of transportation from the factory.In fact,I will ask them about this at the Warley Show.

[ruggedpeak]

Sorry but I think you're missing the point here. The packaging is not inadequate.It holds the model securely in place.The difficulty arises....and this is not confined to the S15......when it is removed or replaced in the "bubble"and bits and pieces are displaced because the fit is simply too snug.I suspect that if Hornby were questioned on this they would reply that it has to be this way because of transportation from the factory.In fact,I will ask them about this at the Warley Show.

 

Is the packaging not primarily to get the model safely from the factory to us via container ships, warehouses and couriers? If it achieves that, and given the propensity for couriers to chuck stuff about especially at this time of year (although I just had a brand new PC arrive by courier and the box was soaked in what appeared to be sunflower oil!), surely that is enough? If you choose to add fine detail that is your choice. Bear in mind it is quite likely a lot of buyers don't add these parts so you are effectively asking Hornby to compromise safe delivery of your product and possibly incur costs (redesigning packaging, additional returns/warranty costs etc) for what maybe a minority of customers. This makes no sense to me, especially if you've read the Dapol O gauge Terrier thread http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/87122-Dapol-o-gauge-terrier/page-38

 

How many other consumer products do we buy that you expect the retail packaging to provide a long term storage solution, after we've modified the product from its retail state? Are you willing to pay extra for this benefit?

 

I appreciate that this may happen by default with some models (e.g. the latest Mk3 DVT's that come with pipes fitted) but it is a bit much in my view to now expect the packaging to be suitable for tiny and fragile optional parts, especially on steam models that tend to have more fragile/fiddly bits that a typical DE model.

Edited November 19, 2015 by ruggedpeak

[olivegreen]

Sorry but I think you're missing the point here. The packaging is not inadequate.It holds the model securely in place.The difficulty arises....and this is not confined to the S15......when it is removed or replaced in the "bubble"and bits and pieces are displaced because the fit is simply too snug.I suspect that if Hornby were questioned on this they would reply that it has to be this way because of transportation from the factory.In fact,I will ask them about this at the Warley Show.

More effective than discussing it here!  That said, I think both you and ruggedpeak (and me, incidentally) have the answer already.

Edited November 20, 2015 by olivegreen

[Ian Hargrave]

More effective than discussing it here!  That said, I think both you and ruggedpeak (and me, incidentally) have the answer already.

Yes...but had it not been aired here,an issue which might simply be resolved in a constructive manner would remain to vex modellers.JZ has a legitimate concern and I for one am glad he has flagged it up.Incidentally,this is not the first time the matter has been raised here.

Meanwhile,I'll visit the Hornby stand at Warley and discuss it with them.I'll report back here then.

It might also be worth mentioning that Dapol's OO gauge boxes and Kernow's DJM. commissions are in comparison secure and safe.

Personally I believe it perfectly feasible to design packaging suitable for both transportation and safe storage.

[dibber25]

As I understand it, packaging is something of an obsession with the Chinese and has to pass certain stringent official tests which - at least one manufacturer refers to as 'The Chinese Drop Test' which I believe is a drop onto concrete from a certain height in which the contents of the package must emerge undamaged. Given that storage is really an issue for the customer to deal with, I think it's likely that packaging design will always concentrate on passing the official tests. On a personal basis I dislike most of the modern model packaging, based on years of having to unpack and re-pack models in a dimly lit photographic studio! I prefer the foam liner type of packaging used by Kernow but the bit of yellow ribbon is a pointless complication. (CJL)

[roundhouse]

Whilst I make up storage boxes for most of my n scale and other stock, when it comes to steam locos I tend to keep them in the manufacturers boxes.

 

the Hornby Bullied pacifics did come in expanded foam boxes which could easily be cut and trimmed to accommodate the brake rigging so wasnt really much of an issue.

 

Now that they use moulded clear plastic its harder to trim whilst keeping the integrity of the moulding.

 

Yes the model accuracy and details is by far more important but lets face it that we are also paying for the container and in this day and age of reducing waste its good to be able to keep on using them as a means of storage where possible / required.

Edited November 25, 2015 by roundhouse

[Hilux5972]

I always keep my locos in their original box when not in use. If I need to, they get modified so the detail can be fitted permanently to the locos.

[SRman]

Changing subject again, DougN and I ran my S15 on his layout last week and decided to test its hauling powers, as well as my mods to the steps and draincock pipes.

Doug's layout is a figure 8 double track with gradients on the curves. Inner radius is approximately 3rd radius but varies a bit. We gradually added a motley collection of four-wheeled wagons of varying degrees of freedom or stiffness, until we reached around 35 wagons. The S15 struggled at certain points with this load and had to be pushed over those parts. Reducing the load again to 30 wagons restored its ability to go round the layout completely without the Big Hands of The Gods descending on it.

Running was smooth and consistent all  the way, with a small amount of wheel slip, although the actual speed at which the motor was turning the wheels didn't seem to vary much at all, regardless of whether the wheels were slipping or not. That suggests it would do better with some added weight ... if one could find somewhere to actually add the weight.

Running light engine or with a light load of wagons gave no problems with my slightly angled front footsteps and draincocks, but with the full load, we found it was derailing the front bogie at the top of the uphill gradient. This was due to the torque just twisting the whole locomotive on the track enough to cause the front bogie wheels to be pushed off by the steps. For Doug's layout, the answer would be to not fit the steps, or to fit them with a distinct outward crank, or, as Doug suggested, fit thinner (etched brass?) steps.

Overall, the performance was very impressive and promises well for more "normal" loads.

Equally impressive in the other direction, was Doug's Hornby K1 2-6-0, which managed only slightly fewer wagons.

Having suitably impressed Doug with the S15, there is a chance I may have tempted him to buy a Southern liveried example.

[No Decorum]

If he buys one, I'm sure he won't regret it!

[No Decorum]

As regards packaging, how hard can it be to incorporate bubbles of plastic at the design stage to allow for drain cocks and other sundries? I can't see that it would compromise  thud-proofness.

[Ian Hargrave]

Changing subject again, DougN and I ran my S15 on his layout last week and decided to test its hauling powers, as well as my mods to the steps and draincock pipes.

 

Doug's layout is a figure 8 double track with gradients on the curves. Inner radius is approximately 3rd radius but varies a bit. We gradually added a motley collection of four-wheeled wagons of varying degrees of freedom or stiffness, until we reached around 35 wagons. The S15 struggled at certain points with this load and had to be pushed over those parts. Reducing the load again to 30 wagons restored its ability to go round the layout completely without the Big Hands of The Gods descending on it.

 

Running was smooth and consistent all  the way, with a small amount of wheel slip, although the actual speed at which the motor was turning the wheels didn't seem to vary much at all, regardless of whether the wheels were slipping or not. That suggests it would do better with some added weight ... if one could find somewhere to actually add the weight.

 

Running light engine or with a light load of wagons gave no problems with my slightly angled front footsteps and draincocks, but with the full load, we found it was derailing the front bogie at the top of the uphill gradient. This was due to the torque just twisting the whole locomotive on the track enough to cause the front bogie wheels to be pushed off by the steps. For Doug's layout, the answer would be to not fit the steps, or to fit them with a distinct outward crank, or, as Doug suggested, fit thinner (etched brass?) steps.

 

Overall, the performance was very impressive and promises well for more "normal" loads.

 

Equally impressive in the other direction, was Doug's Hornby K1 2-6-0, which managed only slightly fewer wagons.

 

Having suitably impressed Doug with the S15, there is a chance I may have tempted him to buy a Southern liveried example.

Well I've been tempted by SR 824 ! What a joy this one is too. It really is an exquisite model .....catches the eye and turns the head.

[The Dorset Wanderer]

As I understand it, packaging is something of an obsession with the Chinese and has to pass certain stringent official tests which - at least one manufacturer refers to as 'The Chinese Drop Test' which I believe is a drop onto concrete from a certain height in which the contents of the package must emerge undamaged. Given that storage is really an issue for the customer to deal with, I think it's likely that packaging design will always concentrate on passing the official tests. On a personal basis I dislike most of the modern model packaging, based on years of having to unpack and re-pack models in a dimly lit photographic studio! I prefer the foam liner type of packaging used by Kernow but the bit of yellow ribbon is a pointless complication. (CJL)

Actually from 1 meter is the norm. Mostly demanded by various UK and HK based companies- has to withstand the rigors of delivery by various courier companies(loose term) attempts at destroying the contents. You have to see it to believe what some attempt to deliver.

[Dunsignalling]

Whilst I make up storage boxes for most of my n scale and other stock, when it comes to steam locos I tend to keep them in the manufacturers boxes.

 

the Hornby Bullied pacifics did come in expanded foam boxes which could easily be cut and trimmed to accommodate the brake rigging so wasnt really much of an issue.

 

Now that they use moulded clear plastic its harder to trim whilst keeping the integrity of the moulding.

 

Yes the model accuracy and details is by far more important but lets face it that we are also paying for the container and in this day and age of reducing waste its good to be able to keep on using them as a means of storage where possible / required.

I too find the old-style preferable when it comes to ease of modification for storing locos safely with the detail parts in place, though both kinds of packaging stand up to the drop-test.

 

The current transparent inserts copied from Bachmann practice appears to be more about presentation than practicality but a careful attack with a good pair of nail scissors generally produces the necessary clearance.

 

John  

[JSpencer]

I always keep my locos in their original box when not in use. If I need to, they get modified so the detail can be fitted permanently to the locos.

I modified the box for a Bachmann C class after adding crew to it. Personally these new ice cube packaging are compact and ideal for storage and transport. I fold down and flatten the cardboard outer. You get store mire locos in the same space so that the wife does not perceive the expansion in the collection ;-))

[Ian Hargrave]

I modified the box for a Bachmann C class after adding crew to it. Personally these new ice cube packaging are compact and ideal for storage and transport. I fold down and flatten the cardboard outer. You get store mire locos in the same space so that the wife does not perceive the expansion in the collection ;-))

What is it about this brotherhood ( No that's not strictly accurate,we have a few sisters too ) that turns virtuous upright citizens all into scheming,devious men adept in the black arts of lying and concealment.......Wot.....me Guv?

[petethemole]

Wartime SR black/sunshine version just announced for next year.

[Ian Hargrave]

Wartime SR black/sunshine version just announced for next year.

And that is excellent news. 1940's is an era that is beginning ....rightfully....to receive attention in terms of R-t-r.Compare this release with the GW Star. Top marks,Hornby for insight into modellers' generational quirks.This era is rich in interest and surprising variety....in which some of us grew up.Many thanks from this war baby.