Southern Maunsell Coaching Stock discussion

[talisman56]

They were all in a pool marked 'Waterloo-West of England' so could reasonably be expected to be found anywhere in that area.

[Dunsignalling]

12 hours ago, PeteN92 said:

I'm interested in some clarification on the P-sets which were made up of a BCK and BTK for WoE services. I understand that these were very common on the North Cornwall railway and were the local services.

 

Would they also be used on the North Devon branch lines towards ilfracombe or were they unique to just the NCR ?

 

cheers

 

Pete

They could be seen all over the West Country, I recently saw a photo of one in use as the branch set on the Lyme Regis line.

 

Earlier in their careers, before being displaced from front line service by Bulleid 2-sets, they worked all the way through to/from Waterloo on multi-portioned expresses like the ACE.

 

John

Edited February 12, 2019 by Dunsignalling

[JohnR]

23 hours ago, PeteN92 said:

I'm interested in some clarification on the P-sets which were made up of a BCK and BTK for WoE services. I understand that these were very common on the North Cornwall railway and were the local services.

 

Would they also be used on the North Devon branch lines towards ilfracombe or were they unique to just the NCR ?

 

cheers

 

Pete

 

In the 1959 Carriage Working Notice they (sets 22-29, 168, 172, 178-180, 196, 198, 199 & 200) are allocated to "Western District", which was the area west of Salisbury. 

 

[JohnR]

On 12/02/2019 at 08:10, PeteN92 said:

I'm interested in some clarification on the P-sets which were made up of a BCK and BTK for WoE services. I understand that these were very common on the North Cornwall railway and were the local services.

 

Would they also be used on the North Devon branch lines towards ilfracombe or were they unique to just the NCR ?

 

cheers

 

Pete

 

Looking at the Carriage Working notices for 1959/60, it seems the majority of the coaches on the North Devon line were either 2-set (R) [sets 63-76, Bulleid BSK & BCK]. The new Bachmann Bulleid coaches will include set 69 in BR(S) green. Also, were 3-set (L) [sets 770-793, Bulleid BSK-CK-BSK]. Again the new Bachmann coaches will allow you to create set 790 in SR Malachite. 

 

 

[JohnR]

Looking for some tips on renumbering Hornby Maunsell coaches. What are the best ways to remove the existing numbers, and best transfers to use?

[PeteN92]

31 minutes ago, JohnR said:

Looking for some tips on renumbering Hornby Maunsell coaches. What are the best ways to remove the existing numbers, and best transfers to use?

T-cut on a cotton bud works pretty well then I use HMRS transfers  to renumber

 

Cheers

Pete

[JohnR]

Which HMRS sheet is appropriate for the BR era? They only seem to only do Bulleid and Maunsell era ones, and the BR coach transfers seem to be white lettering, rather than yellow. 

[Wickham Green]

2 hours ago, JohnR said:

Which HMRS sheet is appropriate for the BR era? They only seem to only do Bulleid and Maunsell era ones, and the BR coach transfers seem to be white lettering, rather than yellow. 

Try the "BR steam era loco and coach insignia" sheet ......... though the balance is towards locos as you'd expect !

[PeteN92]

Does anyone know if structurally and aesthetically there is a difference between CK, FK and SK/TK coaches ? Other than the different class allocations of seating are they the same? 

 

cheers

Pete

[2ManySpams]

On 10/03/2019 at 18:07, PeteN92 said:

Does anyone know if structurally and aesthetically there is a difference between CK, FK and SK/TK coaches ? Other than the different class allocations of seating are they the same? 

 

cheers

Pete

 

They are three different coaches and definitely are not the same coach design with different class stickers on the doors.

 

The FK and CK each have 7 compartments, but the first class compartments are wider than the thirds and therefore the end WCs are narrower on the FK and the doors have a greater spacing.  The SK has 8 compartments and therefore different again.

 

For detailed info like this the following book is highly recommended.

 

 

The CK dimensions are as follows:

 

The FK is as follows:

 

[PeteN92]

Cheers spams do you know if Hornby actually reflect this in the models or have they just painted the seats a different colour and applied different decals ? 

 

Pete 

[2ManySpams]

On 10/03/2019 at 19:19, PeteN92 said:

Cheers spams do you know if Hornby actually reflect this in the models or have they just painted the seats a different colour and applied different decals ? 

 

Pete 

 

I don't have a FK, not much use in most West of England sets, but they have accurately modelled the differences in the other coaches. The CK and SK have the appropriate 7 and 8 compartments for instance and accurately reflect the different body styles. I have no reason to  think the FK and CK would use the same body shell. The FKs didn't sell well and can often be found in bargain bins.

Edited March 12, 2019 by 2ManySpams
To include reference to SK previously missed.

[RFS]

 The CK and FK both have 7 compartments as 2ManySpams has described, but the SK/TK coaches, being all third/second class have 8 compartments. 

 

The compartments are correctly sized in the Hornby models as per the diagrams for all coach types.

Edited March 10, 2019 by RFS

[Wickham Green]

18 hours ago, RFS said:

 The CK and FK both have 7 compartments as 2ManySpams has described, but the SK/TK coaches, being all third/second class have 8 compartments. 

 

The compartments are correctly sized in the Hornby models as per the diagrams for all coach types.

Off hand - without Mike King's 'bible' here in the office - I'm not sure whether any Maunsell Corridor Firsts were downgraded to Seconds towards the end of their lives ..... certainly happened to 'Ironclads' and 'Continentals' and would have created 7-compartment SKs.

[bécasse]

I think that three of the early "low-window" 7-compartment firsts were reclassified as thirds (and subsequently seconds) in the early 1950s but none of the others. The Southern had a considerable special traffic demand for full firsts both in Southampton boat trains and in race specials* so it wasn't unusual to see trains that were wholly or mostly first class but they weren't in the timetable. The full firsts were probably occasionally used as loose third (or later second) strengtheners with paper window labels. 

 

* Ascot races were even served by first class only electric trains made up of 4-CORs with antimacassars (and possibly carpets) throughout - and window labels!

[2ManySpams]

On 10/03/2019 at 20:39, RFS said:

 The CK and FK both have 7 compartments as 2ManySpams has described, but the SK/TK coaches, being all third/second class have 8 compartments. 

 

The compartments are correctly sized in the Hornby models as per the diagrams for all coach types.

 

Agree Robert. For some reason I completely missed that the original post also asked about SKs and wrote the reply originally referring to only the FK and CK differences. Posts above now corrected.

[Wickham Green]

11 hours ago, bécasse said:

I think that three of the early "low-window" 7-compartment firsts were reclassified as thirds (and subsequently seconds) in the early 1950s but none of the others. The Southern had a considerable special traffic demand for full firsts both in Southampton boat trains and in race specials* so it wasn't unusual to see trains that were wholly or mostly first class but they weren't in the timetable. The full firsts were probably occasionally used as loose third (or later second) strengtheners with paper window labels. 

 

Talking of re-labelling, perhaps mention should be made of the 'Nondescript' saloons which looked exactly like the corridor side of a Restriction 1 FK  ....................... widely used as strengtheners in all sorts of regular and special workings.

[Re6/6]

Here's a 'Continental Brake 1st' that we're building for one of our Newhaven boat trains. The etches come from Worsley Works.

 

 

 

 

[N15class]

Changing tack slightly. I'm sure I've seen a published underframe drawing. But now can't find it. Any clues?

[phil-b259]

On 10/03/2019 at 19:19, PeteN92 said:

Cheers spams do you know if Hornby actually reflect this in the models or have they just painted the seats a different colour and applied different decals ? 

 

Pete

 

Thankfully the days of generic / 'inspired by' / wrong livery so as to pretend its something else RTR rolling stock are long gone. With regard to Hornby's 'super detailed rolling stock', ALL of Maunsell stock* (which also covers the ex LSWR rebuilt the non corridor offerings) are 100% accurate to the prototype.

 

* Note the fake Maunsells from the 1980s (a Collett coach with a different roof moulding) do not count.

[TheSignalEngineer]

23 hours ago, bécasse said:

I think that three of the early "low-window" 7-compartment firsts were reclassified as thirds (and subsequently seconds) in the early 1950s but none of the others. The Southern had a considerable special traffic demand for full firsts both in Southampton boat trains and in race specials* so it wasn't unusual to see trains that were wholly or mostly first class but they weren't in the timetable. The full firsts were probably occasionally used as loose third (or later second) strengtheners with paper window labels. 

 

* Ascot races were even served by first class only electric trains made up of 4-CORs with antimacassars (and possibly carpets) throughout - and window labels!

Mike King mentions that Diagram 2502 FKs 7393/4/6 from the Eastbourne Businessmens' sets were reclassified to Diagram 2022 TKs 656-8 in 1954.

[bécasse]

11 hours ago, TheSignalEngineer said:

Mike King mentions that Diagram 2502 FKs 7393/4/6 from the Eastbourne Businessmens' sets were reclassified to Diagram 2022 TKs 656-8 in 1954.

They were indeed the three I had in mind.

[Wickham Green]

20 hours ago, N15class said:

Changing tack slightly. I'm sure I've seen a published underframe drawing. But now can't find it. Any clues?

If you're talking Maunsell 58', I think there's one in Mike King's bible - but there was also one in the old Skinley drawings range ............... or you might be thinking of the Bulleid 63' drawing which has been published in a number of places ?

[N15class]

On 13/03/2019 at 11:53, Wickham Green said:

If you're talking Maunsell 58', I think there's one in Mike King's bible - but there was also one in the old Skinley drawings range ............... or you might be thinking of the Bulleid 63' drawing which has been published in a number of places ?

Bulleid 63 is in there not the Maunsell 58.

Will keep looking.

[Richard Jones]

Hi

 

Apologies for coming to this thread so late (and if you've already covered these questions!).....

 

Is there a comprehensive list of running numbers against Hornby catalogue numbers?

 

I am particularly interested in central section allocated coaches in SR Olive livery and have enough coaches to make up set 470, except that 2 of the 1st (R4298) don't have the right number - does anyone if there was ever a variant carrying No. 7673 or 7674 - or is it a matter of renumbering one?

 

Also....

 

I understand that both sets 469 and 470 were often run with one or two pullmans - does anyone know which particular vehicles were used?

 

Perhaps another thread, but whilst on Pullmans.... can anyone name the vehicles used on any of the Pullman Race specials for Goodwood pre WW2?

 

cheers

 

Richard