Class 800 - Updates

[HillsideDepot]

News from a Driver via a Facebook Group

 

023 running solo on 1C11 11:00 Pad-Bri

Due to arrive Plat 13 at 12:43 where it will be attaching to one of her buddies, if anyone is about and would like to see the procedure.

 

Yes, another short formed set, but note that they are planning to correct it, mid-diagram. Not ideal, of course, but they are trying.

 

It should also be noted that GWR ran a series of special 2x5 IET journeys between Bristol TM and Swindon last Saturday to help move the crowds visiting Bath's Christmas Market.

Short formations do happen, they are annoying, and they shouldn't occur. But, things like the above suggest that GWR is trying its best in difficult circumstances.

[caradoc]

I think seat harness has been used a lot as a proxy for seat comfort. I prefer a firm seat but that's just personal preference, however I do think good shape (anatomic design) counts for far more than seat firmness in determining whether or not a seat is comfortable.

 

I thought maybe a seat harness was a new fitment to the Class 350 sets !

[jamie92208]

My copy of Modern Railways arrived today and Uncle Roger has expanded on what he wrote in his ezine.   Apparently Network Rail are refusing to sign the acceptance certificate for 800's to run on their tracks until the emissions are cut by 50%.  This apparently leaves them noiser than any other type of train.   The solution is to build reactance into the transformer which invlves 1 to 2 tons of copper and iron forming a choke. (I don;t understand the technicality).  This has to be designed and space found to fit it, as well as having a place strong enough to take the mountings, on the pantograph car.  They have also ordered 270 of the new transformers for the stretch north of York but a fitment programme has still to be agreed. 

 

Jamie

[iands]

My copy of Modern Railways arrived today and Uncle Roger has expanded on what he wrote in his ezine.   Apparently Network Rail are refusing to sign the acceptance certificate for 800's to run on their tracks until the emissions are cut by 50%.  This apparently leaves them noiser than any other type of train.   The solution is to build reactance into the transformer which invlves 1 to 2 tons of copper and iron forming a choke. (I don;t understand the technicality).  This has to be designed and space found to fit it, as well as having a place strong enough to take the mountings, on the pantograph car.  They have also ordered 270 of the new transformers for the stretch north of York but a fitment programme has still to be agreed. 

 

Jamie

 

Yep, that is my understanding.

[Mallard60022]

Full livery LNER 800109 racing south through 36E this morning; passing A4 60009 coming north. An interesting combination of sights.

P

[Chris116]

Full livery LNER 800109 racing south through 36E this morning; passing A4 60009 coming north. An interesting combination of sights.

P

I trust you had your camera pointed in the right direction and will post your superb photos later!

[Bomag]

Full livery LNER 800109 racing south through 36E this morning; passing A4 60009 coming north. An interesting combination of sights.

P

 

I have no idea where 36E is but 800111 arrived into Kings Cross just after 14:00. Interior still partially in bubble rap, but it looks better than GWR 800's but more 'plastic' than either HSTs or Mk4s

Edited December 6, 2018 by Bomag

[Mallard60022]

I trust you had your camera pointed in the right direction and will post your superb photos later!

 

Sorry Chris, I leave that to others as my photo skills are carp........

[Mallard60022]

I have no idea where 36E is but 800111 arrived into KX just after 14:00. Interior still partially in bubble rap, but it looks better than GWR 800's but more 'plastic' than either HSTs or Mk4s

 

Oh it most probably was 111 then as it was seemingly the Leeds to the X? Was that in full livery as I've only seen 109 in that set up? Was going too fast for me to see the number and it took us by surprise at Botany Bay Xing.

36E = Retford

Edited December 6, 2018 by Mallard60022

[Bomag]

It was on the ghost 11:45 from Leeds, pass Retford 12:33. It looked to be in full livery, but since this is the first time I have seen one stationary I have nothing to go on.

[Mallard60022]

It was on the ghost 11:45 from Leeds, pass Retford 12:33. It looked to be in full livery, but since this is the first time I have seen one stationary I have nothing to go on.

 

That's the one. Looked tidy but have no idea how much bubble wrap was being transported as we were trackside  .

[Chris116]

Sorry Chris, I leave that to others as my photo skills are carp........

I know the feeling!

[Ken.W]

I have no idea where 36E is but 800111 arrived into Kings Cross just after 14:00. Interior still partially in bubble rap, but it looks better than GWR 800's but more 'plastic' than either HSTs or Mk4s

Although quite a lot’s been said here about the DaFT specified interiors of the IET sets, it seems at least some changes were available to the TOCs.

The VTEC/LNER sets will have Buffet Bars in Standard, and it’s long been said the seating will differ, though if more comfortable remains to be seen. The pre-production sets were said to have the standard seats as a temporary measure.

 

First;

 

Standard;

They apparently have ‘mood lighting’ too

[royaloak]

Although quite a lot’s been said here about the DaFT specified interiors of the IET sets,

The DaFT specced the GWR 800s, while the GWR 802s were specced by GWR with 'input' (polite word for pressure) from the DaFT about how sensible it would be if the interiors matched on the different fleets, I understand VEC specced the interiors of their IETs not the DaFT.

[nightstar.train]

They apparently have ‘mood lighting’ too

So will it get gradually redder and more angry the later the train gets?

[frobisher]

So will it get gradually redder and more angry the later the train gets?

Is there a red "red" enough to cover north of Perth I wonder..? (hat and coat already sourced...)

[TravisM]

I spoke to a driver today at Peterborough and he told me that LNER have stopped training their drivers because of issues with the Class 800’s and there’s a ongoing battle between Hitachi, Network Rail and LNER on who’s to blame for the failure to get the units into service. He also told me that they expected to keep the Class 91’s and Mk IV’s for another two years and HST’s another five years!!!

[caradoc]

Given that the signalling interference issues are York and northwards, is there any reason why the new trains cannot at least be introduced on Leeds services (once the absurd inter-coach 'ladder' problem has been addressed) ?

[jamie92208]

Given that the signalling interference issues are York and northwards, is there any reason why the new trains cannot at least be introduced on Leeds services (once the absurd inter-coach 'ladder' problem has been addressed) ?

 

If as 'Uncle Roger' has alleged, there is a refusal to issue a formal acceptance certificate, the ORR may be reluctant to authorise them to run on a new route.

 

Jamie

[jim.snowdon]

That would rather beg the question as to whose railway it is, Network Rail's or the ORR's. I have always understood it to be the former's, with the role of the ORR being to verify that NR has a compliant safety case, including the methodology for assuring that when trains are authorised to run on the network, they are safe to do so. The ORR may have a role in accepting the trains from the builders as the agents of the DfT, but that is a different responsibility.

 

Jim

[Covkid]

I spoke to a driver today at Peterborough and he told me that LNER have stopped training their drivers because of issues with the Class 800’s and there’s a ongoing battle between Hitachi, Network Rail and LNER on who’s to blame for the failure to get the units into service. He also told me that they expected to keep the Class 91’s and Mk IV’s for another two years and HST’s another five years!!!

If this is the case Jools and I really don't doubt you, there will be some very high level political posturing to take place.  Not least because the entire LNER HST fleet is non PRM compliant and has to be withdrawn in 54 weeks time unless the authorities seek a PRM derogation. 

[Covkid]

Something which may or may not be relevant is the way the IETs have been procured.  AIUI the IET design has been specced by the DfT to Hitachi with apparently little industry involvement. It has hitherto been usual for new rolling stock to be procured by a leasing company, with a few exceptions. The usual Roscos have been Angel, Porterbrook and Eversholt (name change ?) More recent Roscos are Beacon and Rock Rail, but the DfT authorised Hitachi class 8xx have been arranged via Agility trains (East) and Agility Trains (West) which I believe are Hitachi companies. The GWR derivitive of the IET for the West Country services is a development of the DfT procured trains and is via a "conventional" Rosco.     

[jamie92208]

That would rather beg the question as to whose railway it is, Network Rail's or the ORR's. I have always understood it to be the former's, with the role of the ORR being to verify that NR has a compliant safety case, including the methodology for assuring that when trains are authorised to run on the network, they are safe to do so. The ORR may have a role in accepting the trains from the builders as the agents of the DfT, but that is a different responsibility.

 

Jim

 

I may have got the responsibilities mixed up.   However whichever body is responsible for the acceptance authorisation the point remains that another fleet may not be allowed to be introduced.   If this does happen it isn't going to do the already low reputation of the DaFT any favours.

 

Jamie

[TravisM]

If this is the case Jools and I really don't doubt you, there will be some very high level political posturing to take place. Not least because the entire LNER HST fleet is non PRM compliant and has to be withdrawn in 54 weeks time unless the authorities seek a PRM derogation.

 

I can only write here what he told me and by the sound of it, him and his colleagues were pretty unimpressed by the situation to say the least. To say he was using some very strong expletives would be a understatement. I’ll let you draw your own conclusions to what he was saying.

 

I must admit that I was surprised when he said the HST’s were to stay for another five years as I know they have to be disability compliant by the end of 2020 (I think). He could have got it around the wrong way and HST’s for two years, 91’s and Mk IV’s for five, but even if that was the case, surely LNER would have a strong case to retain the HST’s after 2020 as the fleet that was supposed to replace them has not yet been delivered because of the ongoing difficulties?

Edited December 9, 2018 by jools1959

[Ken.W]

I spoke to a driver today at Peterborough and he told me that LNER have stopped training their drivers because of issues with the Class 800’s and there’s a ongoing battle between Hitachi, Network Rail and LNER on who’s to blame for the failure to get the units into service. He also told me that they expected to keep the Class 91’s and Mk IV’s for another two years and HST’s another five years!!!

Well, sort of, LNER haven't actually stopped training - yet - there's still a course on atm, however the situation seems to be...

Training has previously be done using Hitachi's sets

This was due to end as LNER are now supposed to have their own sets to use for training

LNER don't have any of their sets yet due to the ORR embargo on further sets being introduced

So Hitachi won't let us play with their trains