Class 800 - Updates

[Coryton]

10 coach 800 left Cardiff for Paddington this afternoon - both units the right way round, but only the front 5 coaches available for passengers.

 

In some ways even more frustrating than having a short-formed train.

 

(The announcement actually said, "The front 5 coaches are for public use only", which isn't quite how I would have put it).

 

(Edited to remove duplicated text)

Edited November 28, 2018 by Coryton

[4630]

I'm fairly sure that the 800's were running into York on electric power occasionally in 2017. Cannot speak for this year as I no longer frequent that station.

 

 

They were certainly running on electric through York earlier this year.  Here's 801101 heading north from York on 5th April 2018.

 

 

The working was 5X71, 08.54 Newark North Gate to Newcastle.

[Mallard60022]

Strange then as DOO trains worked by Class 16X units call everyday at any number of stations where there are no platform staff (so no CD/RA indicator) and no mirrors or cameras and have done for a quarter of a century.  And of course Class 387s are now regularly calling at some of those stations and have done since their introduction to traffic.

 

Hence I do wonder if we are getting some spurious mumblings or is it because the Driver of a Class 80X can't as easily look back along the train?

 

Speaking to the Station Staff at 36E they are really concerned about possible DOO on the 800s and on other stuff to a lesser degree as, at present, all trains that stop at Retford have on board Staff confirming the door closures followed by all clear and then the RA .

Phil

[Zomboid]

10 coach 800 left Cardiff for Paddington this afternoon - both units the right way round, but only the front 5 coaches available for passengers.

 

In some ways even more frustrating than having a short-formed train.

 

(The announcement actually said, "The front 5 coaches are for public use only", which isn't quite how I would have put it).

 

(Edited to remove duplicated text)

Having suffered such a journey, it really is about as bad as it gets, to be crush loaded into half a train knowing that it's dragging 5 empty carriages around that you're not allowed into. It would be more bearable if they weren't there at all.

 

You'd have thought GWR would have got on top of the staffing issues which are behind that by now, since it was about February that I had to endure it.

[Covkid]

Having suffered such a journey, it really is about as bad as it gets, to be crush loaded into half a train knowing that it's dragging 5 empty carriages around that you're not allowed into. It would be more bearable if they weren't there at all.

 

You'd have thought GWR would have got on top of the staffing issues which are behind that by now, since it was about February that I had to endure it.

 

as far as I am concerned it was a crazy idea by DfT and HRE to build the 5 car units first.

The IET programme is primarily a HST2 or HST replacement train and is replacing life expired 2+8 HSTs. from an operating point of view (let alone one of common sense) surely 9 car IETs should have replaced 2+8 HSTs initially, with the 5 car units coming at the end of the delivery to provide the boost in seats.

 

Yeah,  I know a handful of IETs nave (on paper) eliminated the 180s but we are talking about maybe just five 180s, and sets could have been juggled. I just think the Hitachi provisioning of the IET fleet has not been a shining success for GWR   

[Mark Saunders]

as far as I am concerned it was a crazy idea by DfT and HRE to build the 5 car units first.

 

Personally I say the opposite as it means the trains can be combined from two outlying towns forming a through train to London!

[Gwiwer]

Observing at Ealing and Hayes today.  There was quite a number of 5-car sets running alone.  I have no way of knowing whether these are rostered 5-car workings or short formations.  So far as I am aware the Cotswold duties are 5-car but most others should be formed of a 9-car or 2x5-car units.  

 

And still a lot of hardware parked up at North Pole going nowhere.  Which suits the HST fans nicely but does Hitachi and, by extension, GWR no credit.

 

Were any on diesel?  Oh yes they were.  About a quarter of those I watched were definitely powered from below the floor rather than from the overhead.  Everything should be electric in the Thames Valley by now, surely?

[royaloak]

Coupling nicely illustrated here, from 6m 13s in. https://youtu.be/Aff3VXhVvMI

Interesting how the guard is able to open a window and observe the PTI as the train leaves the station!

[royaloak]

Strange then as DOO trains worked by Class 16X units call everyday at any number of stations where there are no platform staff (so no CD/RA indicator) and no mirrors or cameras and have done for a quarter of a century.  And of course Class 387s are now regularly calling at some of those stations and have done since their introduction to traffic.

 

Hence I do wonder if we are getting some spurious mumblings or is it because the Driver of a Class 80X can't as easily look back along the train?

The cameras are getting covered in crap* and it is literally impossible to see anything on the screens, but do please feel free to keep having a go at the staff!

 

 

* technical term.

[royaloak]

Personally I say the opposite as it means the trains can be combined from two outlying towns forming a through train to London!

Which doesnt happen except at Swansea where the Carmarthen joins to a unit sat in the platform which hasnt been anywhere.

Edited November 28, 2018 by royaloak

[royaloak]

And still a lot of hardware parked up at North Pole going nowhere.  Which suits the HST fans nicely but does Hitachi and, by extension, GWR no credit.

As has been posted several times, all awaiting fault free mileage running and acceptance.

Edited November 28, 2018 by royaloak

[Covkid]

as far as I am concerned it was a crazy idea by DfT and HRE to build the 5 car units first.

The IET programme is primarily a HST2 or HST replacement train and is replacing life expired 2+8 HSTs. from an operating point of view (let alone one of common sense) surely 9 car IETs should have replaced 2+8 HSTs initially, with the 5 car units coming at the end of the delivery to provide the boost in seats.

 

Yeah,  I know a handful of IETs nave (on paper) eliminated the 180s but we are talking about maybe just five 180s, and sets could have been juggled. I just think the Hitachi provisioning of the IET fleet has not been a shining success for GWR   

 

 

Personally I say the opposite as it means the trains can be combined from two outlying towns forming a through train to London!

 

 

Which doesnt happen except at Swansea where the Carmarthen joins to a unit sat in the platform which hasnt been anywhere.

 

 

As "Royaloak" says.  Where else does it happen at the moment ?

Maybe in the fullness of time when all the IETs have been delivered maybe, but for the past year loyal passengers have endured all sorts of shoddy service because of short formed trains, which simply wouldn't have happened if all the 9 cars had been delivered first, and every train for the first eighteen months would have been fully formed with loads of seats.

 

Yes, I realise there would have been a DfT induced delay because the 801s needed to be built as 800/3s, but they were at the shop floor stage anyway.

 

I have had seventeen years of staff on overcrowded 4 and 5 car DMUs which technically should be known as Intercity trains.

Lessons are not learnt !!!  

[Coryton]

Maybe in the fullness of time when all the IETs have been delivered maybe, but for the past year loyal passengers have endured all sorts of shoddy service because of short formed trains, which simply wouldn't have happened if all the 9 cars had been delivered first, and every train for the first eighteen months would have been fully formed with loads of seats.

 

If they'd taken the 9 coach trains first, wouldn't we have been likely to have more trains cancelled outright, rather than run short formed?

[david.hill64]

Interesting how the guard is able to open a window and observe the PTI as the train leaves the station!

In Taiwan we had many arguments with the Japanese about the provision of opening windows in the train manager's compartments. The Japanese wanted to include these as the JR practice is for the train manager to lean out and observe the arrival and departure of trains at stations. It was only when we pointed out that Taipei main station (which is underground) has severely restricted clearances and that one day somebody looking back along the train was bound to be decapitated did they relent. Doors are controlled by the train manager and a control panel is fitted at each doorway to facilitate this. Another novelty for the Japanese, but a train manager told me earlier this year that it was a very useful facility especially as there is only about 10 minutes between stops on the all stations services.

['CHARD]

The decision to put 5-car sets into service first lies at the door of one party only, that being the DfT.  Hitachi and GWR may have had their problems, but the delivery schedule as written is one party's work, DfT.

[jjb1970]

The decision to put 5-car sets into service first lies at the door of one party only, that being the DfT. Hitachi and GWR may have had their problems, but the delivery schedule as written is one party's work, DfT.

Which means it was clearly the right decision as DafT knows everything and is never wrong. You can't argue with a glorious record of success like theirs.

[Zomboid]

We are truly blessed to have an organisation with such wide ranging skills operating at such a consistently high level as the DfT.

If only the other government departments were as capable.

[enginelane]

We are truly blessed to have an organisation with such wide ranging skills operating at such a consistently high level as the DfT.

If only the other government departments were as capable.

Daft staff made up from the cream that brought the country the academies programme in education ( no need to provide financial checks as all are good eggs, no one will trouser money), and of course the defence ministry with their renowned budgetary skills

[royaloak]

The decision to put 5-car sets into service first lies at the door of one party only, that being the DfT.  Hitachi and GWR may have had their problems, but the delivery schedule as written is one party's work, DfT.

That fact doesnt stop people blaming GWR or the staff though does it!

['CHARD]

That fact doesnt stop people blaming GWR or the staff though does it!

 

Of course not, and that's regrettably one of the sad facts about 'delivery' at customer-facing level; those responsible are hidden inside anonymous office-blocks miles away from the service.

[The Stationmaster]

The cameras are getting covered in crap* and it is literally impossible to see anything on the screens, but do please feel free to keep having a go at the staff!

 

 

* technical term.

 

Presumably because the units spend so long running on diesel?  And in respect of the area worked by 16X trains and 387s I am not 'having a go at staff' but saying what happens now and has done for years (in the case of 16X trains) so maybe the Driver's seating position on 80X trains has got something to do with - if so then why not say so?

 

Of course not, and that's regrettably one of the sad facts about 'delivery' at customer-facing level; those responsible are hidden inside anonymous office-blocks miles away from the service.

As has always been the case of course (not that it makes it any better of, just that it's a different, younger, generation suffering it - as is usually the case).

[willjmitchell]

I’m sitting on yet another 5 coach service from London to Bristol, the 1630. There are no seat reservations, first class has been declassified and they are saying that any passengers with seat reservations who have been left standing can apply for compensation. In fairness to the Guard, or ‘Train Manager’ to use the parlence of our times, he has been very apologetic and said this is happening far too often. Indeed it is: on my journey to London on Monday it was exactly the same. On that occassion the Guard explicitly blamed Hitachi for not supplying the correct train. Whoever is at fault, it’s an absolute shambles. When is this likely to be sorted out?

[Gwiwer]

 

 

When is this likely to be sorted out?

 

Don't hold your breath.  There are, in my humble opinion, too many chiefs, too many parties and too many profits being sought from the one pie.  If we had BR - who were by no means perfect - we might have had a train designed and built by and for the same people who were going to run it, to their specification and working more or less out of the box.

 

I have a sneaky suspicion things will get worse before they get better given that the HST fleet is largely off-lease now other than those sets GWR cannot manage without pending the full West of England IET takeover.

 

And I have yet to meet anyone with a genuinely good word for the new things.

 

I have to go to Bristol tomorrow.  I shall be travelling on SWR's comfortable class 159 from Waterloo via Salisbury because time is less of an issue than comfort.  I am past the stage where I am prepared to stand for an hour or more on these trains and the seats are simply awful.

[Coryton]

And I have yet to meet anyone with a genuinely good word for the new things.

 

 

Well you haven't met me in person, but I am quite impressed with them.

 

I would far rather travel in an IET than a UK Pendolino, or a GWR Mk 3.

 

Just watched a 9 coach IET go past my train.

 

Electronic reservations not functioning, reservation tickets on the seat backs. 

 

Wasn't the electronic system supposed to have gone live by now?

[APOLLO]

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