Class 800 - Updates

[Zomboid]

6 minutes ago, royaloak said:

No it wouldnt because once the train passes over the APC magnet the VCB will open so the pantograph is no longer connected to the power line into the train so it wouldnt matter if the pan head was on the live section or not so no arc will be drawn, the only time it would be an issue if if the VCB failed to open

I've obviously not made myself particularly clear - in order to take power the breaker would have to be reclosed. So it's not safe to have it take power until it's passed over the APC magnet that recloses it (except if we're taking about the carrier wire NS rescue procedure, but that wouldn't apply to a bi-mode, or for that matter an 801). Hence the diesel shuffle that you have to do to get clear.

 

I also have no idea why they went with the specific locations that they did, but having been involved with a project to install one on a different route, siting neutral sections is extremely difficult. Especially now they have to be in the same place on all tracks for isolation safety purposes. A carrier wire is extra hard because it's so long.

[royaloak]

9 minutes ago, Zomboid said:

I've obviously not made myself particularly clear - in order to take power the breaker would have to be reclosed. So it's not safe to have it take power until it's passed over the APC magnet that recloses it

Ah that does clarify things.

 

I thought you meant we took power using the front unit (which would be live) to drag the rear unit clear of the neutral section (regardless of whether the pan is on the live or dead part) using minimal power until the rear unit passed over the closure APC and the VCB closed allowing the rear unit to take power.

[Zomboid]

Presumably there's a reason why you can't do that. I couldn't imagine what it could be though. Rolling stock to that kind of depth is outside my area of knowledge, but hasn't there been examples of an LNER 800 dragging an 801 around? If that's permissible...

[royaloak]

30 minutes ago, Zomboid said:

Presumably there's a reason why you can't do that. I couldn't imagine what it could be though. Rolling stock to that kind of depth is outside my area of knowledge, but hasn't there been examples of an LNER 800 dragging an 801 around? If that's permissible...

There are many things available on the trains that we are not allowed to use (such as dual mode, one in electric and one in diesel, the reason supposedly being the strain on the coupling ) , and yes Hitachi are quite happy for the LNER 800s to drag an 801 to Eastleigh for commissioning work, what sort of strain does that put on the coupling? 

[Siberian Snooper]

As a matter of interest as I have not managed to determine exactly where the switch from diesel to electric in the Newbury area is, can anyone please enlighten me?

 

 

[St. Simon]

5 hours ago, Siberian Snooper said:

As a matter of interest as I have not managed to determine exactly where the switch from diesel to electric in the Newbury area is, can anyone please enlighten me?

 

 

 

Hi,

 

It is just on the Reading side of Newbury Racecourse Station, unless you stop at Newbury, then you can pan up stationary there.

 

Simon

[St. Simon]

14 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Thanks Simon but I must admit to being mighty puzzled about the converting to electric anywhere if travelling slower than 20 mph.  That certainly hasn't been the case on some trains I have travelled on in respect of Steventon - where they have gone over to electric at far higher speeds (or have had a miraculous increase in power from the diesel engines) and it sounds ludicrously slow,  What on earth is there on these trains prevents them changing over to electric power at, say, 100mph (or an even higher speed)?

 

Hi Mike,

 

There's nothing on the train that applies the 20mph restriction, it is a general rule in the rule book that applies to all trains and all areas that you if you are travelling greater than 20mph, then you can only raise your Pan in designated areas, as indicated by our Lineside Signs.

 

The main reason for dictating the areas is so that Pantographs aren't raised into complex OLE (around junctions etc.) at high speed to reduce the chance of the Pantograph 'horns' catching on something as well as being able to keep the increased wear on the contact wire to defined locations.

 

I assure everyone that in terms of Power Change-Over, the risks have been assessed appropriately by operations, designers, maintenance and OLE staff that have many many years of railway experience stretching back into the BR days

 

Simon

[caradoc]

There are neutral sections in Scotland which could be said to be at 'awkward' locations;

 

On the Argyle Line, immediately on the Cambuslang side of Rutherglen station; There is logic involved here, as it allows the main lines to be electrically separated from the Argyle Line, or vice versa, should a fault occur. However Up trains starting away from Rutherglen station are also faced with a sharp curve, which is where the NS is located, and trains have become stranded here.

 

On the ECML immediately east of Longniddry station; Up stopping trains have occasionally been stranded here too, more usually in Autumn (low rail adhesion). The reason for this NS being where it is is less easy to understand !

 

[Gwiwer]

3 out of 9 successful attempts at Pullman dining has become 4 out of 10. 1A97 (the 16.00) brought me back from Penzance to Paddington tonight formed of 802110. 

 

This was my initiation into 8xx first class travel and dining. 

 

The seats are as generous for space as their HST predecessors but harder. They recline a decent amount. There seems to be more space between table and seat in the groups but not in the singles.  There was enough padding in the seats to avoid numb-bum as has occurred on most standard class trips. 

 

The unit was sure-footed on a damp rail except for some slipping on departure from Bodmin. With a less-than-full load it also did well on the hills though only just kept HST timings.  We were unlucky to lose 9 minutes at Plymouth to a door fault which was never recovered despite obvious hard running

 

The Pullman diner was filled from Plymouth. Overspill boarding at stations to Exeter was accommodated and served in the adjacent coach as happened in HST days. The crew were good though service was slow off the mark resulting in some desserts not being served until after Reading. At which point the tables are normally being cleared. 

 

My meal was excellent (duck starter, steak main cooked medium-rare perfectly) though others commented that the pork main was dry and tough and the trout main cold when it was expected warm.  My only criticism of the catering was there was no gin and no lemonade aboard. That made gin & tonic or vodka & lemonade both out of the question. Both were requested by diners.  

 

The standard class trolley was aboard and seemed well supplied including sandwiches. The first class trolley was very well stocked with drinks, snacks and sandwiches but of course neither gin nor lemonade for some reason. 

 

The set rode well when not pressed. It was a rough ride up the Berks & Hants with the driver intent on time recovery. Service wasn’t helped by bumps and lurches but nothing went astray that I was aware of. 

 

All in all a better trip than I have had. Possibly an element of crew confidence now in the new trains but they still struggle at times and when hard-pressed. 

 

No plans yet to sample the LNER hardware but when I do I’ll report back. 

 

 

Edited September 23, 2019 by Gwiwer

[royaloak]

Re my previous moan about the location of the neutral section at Foxhall jn near Didcot, well I would like to withdraw it because it is actually much further from Didcot station than I had realised (probably because I have always been going through Didcot at 125mph previously so have covered a lot of distance quickly) but after stopping at Didcot on the down I was doing over 60mph before having to power off for the neutral section, it is actually nearer Milton than Foxhall jn.

 

I was also doing about 90 by the time I got to 'that' bridge at Steventon.

[The Stationmaster]

Observed yesterday while travelling to/from Reading and hanging around there and elsewhere waiting trains/connecting trains - all Class 80X sets observed were the correct way round.  This was a considerable improvement on my previous day of sighting when only about 40% of those I saw were correctly orientated.

[Gwiwer]

32 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Observed yesterday while travelling to/from Reading and hanging around there and elsewhere waiting trains/connecting trains - all Class 80X sets observed were the correct way round.  This was a considerable improvement on my previous day of sighting when only about 40% of those I saw were correctly orientated.

Mine was the right way round 

 

But I overlooked a couple of things in the previous post. My seat reservation was booked for “facing” but the allocated seat with the set right way round was “back to” direction of travel. 

 

In the event it didn’t matter. The reservation system was not working. It was open slather for all. No-one challenged me in my selected facing-at-table seat which I vacated anyway somewhere around South Brent when invited to my seat in the restaurant. That was “back to” and sharing a table for four as I have always done before. All the singles having already been assigned to what appeared - from the familiarity between crew and clientèle - to be regular customers. 

 

I also gleaned from the Service Leader (sporting a Pullman Car Co. “Chief Steward” badge) that more crews are being created and more chefs recruited to expand the Pullman dining service. He assured me that far from the IETs sounding its death knell they are over-subscribed in the 15-seat coach L every trip and need to lay up several tables in coach K. 

 

A down morning breakfast service from London would definitely be appreciated here. 

[APOLLO]

Pullman Dining !!!

 

Greggs sausage roll for me on the Pendolino from Wigan to Warrington to collect my car last week. A faster than usual traversal of the junction at Winwick caused a high degree of tilt which resulted in me biting my left thumb instead of the savoury  - (funnily enough a similar  taste !!). Toilets stank as usual and no goldfish were flushed.

 

I'll try a Voyager next time !!

 

Brit15

[stewartingram]

Greggs sausage roll! Now that really is cattle class....disgusting tasteless things.

 

Stewart

[Mallard60022]

14 hours ago, Gwiwer said:

3 out of 9 successful attempts at Pullman dining has become 4 out of 10. 1A97 (the 16.00) brought me back from Penzance to Paddington tonight formed of 802110. 

 

This was my initiation into 8xx first class travel and dining. 

 

The seats are as generous for space as their HST predecessors but harder. They recline a decent amount. There seems to be more space between table and seat in the groups but not in the singles.  There was enough padding in the seats to avoid numb-bum as has occurred on most standard class trips. 

 

The unit was sure-footed on a damp rail except for some slipping on departure from Bodmin. With a less-than-full load it also did well on the hills though only just kept HST timings.  We were unlucky to lose 9 minutes at Plymouth to a door fault which was never recovered despite obvious hard running

 

The Pullman diner was filled from Plymouth. Overspill boarding at stations to Exeter was accommodated and served in the adjacent coach as happened in HST days. The crew were good though service was slow off the mark resulting in some desserts not being served until after Reading. At which point the tables are normally being cleared. 

 

My meal was excellent (duck starter, steak main cooked medium-rare perfectly) though others commented that the pork main was dry and tough and the trout main cold when it was expected warm.  My only criticism of the catering was there was no gin and no lemonade aboard. That made gin & tonic or vodka & lemonade both out of the question. Both were requested by diners.  

 

The standard class trolley was aboard and seemed well supplied including sandwiches. The first class trolley was very well stocked with drinks, snacks and sandwiches but of course neither gin nor lemonade for some reason. 

 

The set rode well when not pressed. It was a rough ride up the Berks & Hants with the driver intent on time recovery. Service wasn’t helped by bumps and lurches but nothing went astray that I was aware of. 

 

All in all a better trip than I have had. Possibly an element of crew confidence now in the new trains but they still struggle at times and when hard-pressed. 

 

No plans yet to sample the LNER hardware but when I do I’ll report back. 

 

 

Don't rush. You will be underwhelmed if you even get anything. 

P

[Siberian Snooper]

I had an email from  GW this afternoon about the forthcoming timetable changes,  it seems that we are losing the Plymouth, Paddington via Bristol and Bath,  does this mean that LA drivers will lose the opportunity to maintain their route knowledge via Bristol?

 

 

[159220]

21 hours ago, Gwiwer said:

A down morning breakfast service from London would definitely be appreciated here. 

 

Very pleased to hear you had success with the Pullman. I was onboard last night and sadly, with the 'new crew' recruitment for the Saturday Pullmans to Castle Cary (ending 26th October), a number of the 'old' crew have left the business - I suspect this was inevitable. This has, sadly, made service feel far more clinical than the wonderfully flamboyant service I am accustomed to (don't worry I have written to the catering director). I have to agree, gin does appear to be a rarity these days, and when present is this mass brand Sipsmiths over the Cornish delight of Tarquins! The new menu is a work in progress, as there are new chefs perhaps not yet confident to cooking on a train. The next new menu launches a week on Monday, as cycle three - all online now.  

 

And you are correct, the December TTC features a few new Pullman services. Rather clever move by GWR, the new crews were trained earlier this year for the Castle Cary Saturday Pullman by private money - and now there are more crew, more services can be run. This shall feature the formation of a second London based crew with a down breakfast/brunch at 10.03 (or was it the 11.03 - I have forgotten!) and a return dining from Plymouth at 16.50 (arr. Pad 20.17). Though this is not a final 'decision' and could be changed to a Paddington-Swansea- Paddington lunch and dining diagram. 

 

As for IET 1st class. OK the cabin is far more clinical (bright and without subtle detailing), yet the seats in my opinion are a huge improvement over the sweaty leather seats I would forever get damp on and keep sliding off! The ex-HST 1st seat, as that found on LNER (and SWT class 159 1st) were/are just as hard as the new order. But comfort is a relative and personal matter. 

[159220]

15 hours ago, Siberian Snooper said:

I had an email from  GW this afternoon about the forthcoming timetable changes,  it seems that we are losing the Plymouth, Paddington via Bristol and Bath,  does this mean that LA drivers will lose the opportunity to maintain their route knowledge via Bristol?

 

 

 

Still a few in the December TT. But mainly, the swap is to several Cardiff/Bristol - Plymouth/Penzance 2x158s from December. 

 

A quick skim through sees:

 

09.00 Pad - 11.44 Exd via Brs tm 10.45

22.00 Pad - 01.10 Exd via Brs tm 23.47

 

13.08 Exd - 15.45 Pad via Brs tm 14.20

17.45 Pnz - 23.40 Pad via Brs tm 21.45

 

Edited September 25, 2019 by 159220

[Oldddudders]

Sherry's second-cousin seems to have enjoyed a rather fast trip up from Bristol - 71 mins does sound quick to me! Then she was snapped sitting in the "Royaloak" seat! Has there been some sort of junket this week? 

[Ashcombe]

Further to Ian's post, she is the Business Editor on The Bristol Post.

[dibber25]

GWR have just e-mailed me about a speed record last evening - 72min Bristol-Pdn. (CJL)

[royaloak]

22 hours ago, Siberian Snooper said:

I had an email from  GW this afternoon about the forthcoming timetable changes,  it seems that we are losing the Plymouth, Paddington via Bristol and Bath,  does this mean that LA drivers will lose the opportunity to maintain their route knowledge via Bristol?

 

 

Simple answer is yes we will, but apparently only between Bristol Temple Meads and Cogload jn as we will have booked work from Reading to Bristol.

 

We will probably have to remove the route from our route cards as we cannot maintain the required knowledge using route refresh trips as we need to actually drive the route.

[royaloak]

7 hours ago, 159220 said:

 

Still a few in the December TT. But mainly, the swap is to several Cardiff/Bristol - Plymouth/Penzance 2x158s from December. 

 

A quick skim through sees:

 

09.00 Pad - 11.44 Exd via Brs tm 10.45

22.00 Pad - 01.10 Exd via Brs tm 23.47

 

13.08 Exd - 15.45 Pad via Brs tm 14.20

17.45 Pnz - 23.40 Pad via Brs tm 21.45

 

Plymouth HS dont sign 158s so we cant work them.

 

Exeter crews will work most of those so they retain knowledge for the sleepers, and Paddington crews as they sign both ways to Exeter.

Edited September 25, 2019 by royaloak

[royaloak]

6 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

Sherry's second-cousin seems to have enjoyed a rather fast trip up from Bristol - 71 mins does sound quick to me! Then she was snapped sitting in the "Royaloak" seat! Has there been some sort of junket this week? 

That is the only comfy seat on the train but I have to get up for a leg stretch at station stops otherwise I get dead legs.

 

Despite the amount of equipment, it is a very well organised cab and I do let people have a quick look around whenever possible, and take a picture of them sat in the seat if they wish.

[royaloak]

2 hours ago, dibber25 said:

GWR have just e-mailed me about a speed record last evening - 72min Bristol-Pdn. (CJL)

No doubt the driver will be suspended while they check the download!