RMweb Gold Huw Griffiths Posted January 14, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 14, 2015 I would like to see a class 142 there is a nice link to Canada too... 1. The scan was performed at a location north of Southampton. Maybe very north of Southampton. Definitely south of Wick. Roughly half way sees you at Heaton home of the 142 on Tyneside 2. The prototype rides on wheels, not skis. 142049 went on its Holidays to Vancouver Canada see here but didn't go Skiing during its time there. 3. The prototype was or is very widely used and not restricted to one region. Class 142 very widespread... I notice that you said "widespread" and not "popular". It could also be suggested that a number of passengers might actually prefer any use of Class 142 units to be very much in the past tense. The Wikipedia article you linked to is interesting - particularly the bit about one set visiting Canada, where Margaret Thatcher is reputed to have made a publicity journey on it. I'd imagine this journey would have been very short - and I wonder if she would have enjoyed the experience. I could also imagine her using her hankerchief to cover up any Union Flag stickers she might have come across inside this unit - only speculation, of course, you understand ... . 4. The prototype has been done before in plastic, but not in a very, very long time. Hornby Model first made 1987??? ... and showing its age. In view of the apparent intent to use threads like this one to drive speculation, some people might be tempted to look at this "done before in plastic" malarkey from a different angle. Has Jason categorically said that any previous models need to have been RTR (as opposed to kits) - produced in any quantity (as opposed to scratchbuilds, at model railway exhibitions, or in magazines / websites) - or even offered to the public? Although I, personally, don't go along with this idea, Jason hasn't even said anything which rules out models, such as one of a Parry People Mover - built in response to a challenge in Railway Modeller - and later featured in publicity brochures (also uploaded to the internet). He also hasn't said anything which rules out many of the models which often appear on manufacturers' stands at trade shows like Railtex and MetroRail. Another thing which hasn't been specifically ruled out is development models - produced by RTR manufacturers, in connection with models which never found their way into production. OK - a number of models like these might actually relate to prototypes which no longer exist (so would be ruled out) - however, I suspect that there might be a number which relate to stuff which is still around. However, again, I suspect that this train of thought might have found its way into a siding - and might also have hit the buffers. The only reason I'm mentioning offbeat thoughts like this is because Jason's comments have been deliberately kept vague enough for stuff like this not to be specifically ruled out. Personally, I don't think the new model will be based on any of these "not for public consumption" subjects - but I suspect that Jason has deliberately kept things vague, to keep people guessing. The photo could be anything from a Class 42 "Warship" (with Mk.1 coaches in tow) to a Class 165 / 166 Turbo - or even an electric Networker, "313", "507" or "319" with its pantograph down. The photo could even effectively be of nothing at all. I don't actually think it matters. If it keeps people guessing - if it keeps people checking websites - then the photo has done its job. 5. It will be a powered model. Probably more powerful than the real thing... 6. It doesn't tilt. Oh no it doesn't! Doesn't tilt but it does nod... Nodding Donkey?? What do I think it is? Does this matter either? For what it's worth, I think there could be a number of credible candidates. I personally think that the Class 142 SkipJobs Skippers are probably overdue for an update. I've also noticed that Hornby don't seem to be in any rush to replace their "142" model with something that many of us would consider worth even "Railroad" money - so a decent model of this one, at a sensible price, might turn out to be a good seller (certainly more popular than the full sized version). I certainly wouldn't rule out a "142" - but time will tell. Huw. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derekstuart Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 I think Huw makes a good comment about kits. Perhaps this is the first RTR, but a previous kit was released. (I can't think of any examples though). BTW I think the 142 is worthy of a little time and money being spent on it to improve its lack of finesse.There are a few people have done just that, though to differing standards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAndy Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 If it is a 142, can we have working springing Jason, so that it actually Nods when coming to a stop......... I'll get me coat cheers Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Huw Griffiths Posted January 14, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 14, 2015 If it is a 142, can we have working springing Jason, so that it actually Nods when coming to a stop......... ... or, for those who want to go the full hog, there could also be a DCC sound version, with realistic squealing noises. Huw. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derekstuart Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 If it is a 142, can we have working springing Jason, so that it actually Nods when coming to a stop......... I'll get me coat cheers Andy Andy As part of my return to this great hobby 20 years after leaving it, I have been looking for a couple of "rebuild" projects that are above the type I did previously, but no TOO involved. One of those projects (which I am not doing now, in favour of something else) was to fully spring the 142- I don't mean a compensated/sprung brass chassis, I mean replicating the suspension just like the real one. I did some tests and couldn't make springs of that size that would work in the same way as the real one. Though someone suggested coiled stainless steel would work better than the coiled brass) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAndy Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Andy As part of my return to this great hobby 20 years after leaving it, I have been looking for a couple of "rebuild" projects that are above the type I did previously, but no TOO involved. One of those projects (which I am not doing now, in favour of something else) was to fully spring the 142- I don't mean a compensated/sprung brass chassis, I mean replicating the suspension just like the real one. I did some tests and couldn't make springs of that size that would work in the same way as the real one. Though someone suggested coiled stainless steel would work better than the coiled brass) Got to take my hat off to you for trying that in the first place. The problem of course with doing something like that is you need mass, which comes from weight - and the problem with models as small as 4mm is that weight doesn't scale down ( same as smoke and water ) - it's a bit like getting semaphore signals to bounce in 2,4 or 7mm, it needs some sort of mechanical/electrical device to replicate it.......so if you were going to make a 142 bounce, then it probably would need something along those sort of lines. cheers Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derekstuart Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Andy You would think that the obvious answer, but there's one thing people overlook. I must note that I haven't yet found a way to actually make it work, but the principle is sound You are right that the scale 142 doesn't behave the same as the real one due to mass. But that's assuming that I take the measurements of a real hardened steel coil spring and replicate it at 1:76.2. The trick is, I think, to find a type and gauge of metal to form the coil springs that also does not behave as per the real spring- in the same way as the car doesn't act as the real one. Does that make sense?If you think about some of the brass compensated chassis available- they use thin (10 thou?) brass wire to replicate springs, so we know the principle works. All I am talking about is making them coiled rather than linear. As I said, I decided that it's out of my ability to do at the moment, so I've found another easier task... I did make quite good dampers btw- not hydraulically filled, but they moved as they should. PS IS this off topic? If 142 is the unit they are doing (IF) then suggesting working suspension isn't that bad an idea... I think RT seem to be able to do magic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Vistisen Posted January 14, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 14, 2015 Got to take my hat off to you for trying that in the first place. The problem of course with doing something like that is you need mass, which comes from weight - and the problem with models as small as 4mm is that weight doesn't scale down ( same as smoke and water ) - it's a bit like getting semaphore signals to bounce in 2,4 or 7mm, it needs some sort of mechanical/electrical device to replicate it.......so if you were going to make a 142 bounce, then it probably would need something along those sort of lines. cheers Andy I should think that a couple of small cams could do the trick, by having the body mounted on two cams one at each end and controlling these via a dcc chip function it should be possible to simulate the body 'rocking' end to end Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsp3970 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I actually thought about a class 124, but I don't think these were anything but Eastern Region units. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Just as sideways thinking (and not having read EVERY post so apologies if this question has already been asked)... Is there anything suitable made in N that doesn't exist in OO? Les Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR_Blue_1986 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I know what you mean Les, they didn't state whether it had been produced in N or OO gauge. I did ponder that myself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 The Class 175 doesn't really fit with the clue about being produced in plastic before but a very long time ago The front ends of the real ones are plastic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
45661 Vernon Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Class 185 transpennine express. Certainly a item I think would sell in numbers to the modern modellers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonC Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I actually thought about a class 124, but I don't think these were anything but Eastern Region units. they'd be doing well to find a survivor to laser scan Class 185 transpennine express. Certainly a item I think would sell in numbers to the modern modellers. Doesn't really fit with the clue about being done before in plastic a very, very long time ago Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Andy You would think that the obvious answer, but there's one thing people overlook. I must note that I haven't yet found a way to actually make it work, but the principle is sound You are right that the scale 142 doesn't behave the same as the real one due to mass. But that's assuming that I take the measurements of a real hardened steel coil spring and replicate it at 1:76.2. The trick is, I think, to find a type and gauge of metal to form the coil springs that also does not behave as per the real spring- in the same way as the car doesn't act as the real one. Does that make sense? If you think about some of the brass compensated chassis available- they use thin (10 thou?) brass wire to replicate springs, so we know the principle works. All I am talking about is making them coiled rather than linear. As I said, I decided that it's out of my ability to do at the moment, so I've found another easier task... I did make quite good dampers btw- not hydraulically filled, but they moved as they should. PS IS this off topic? If 142 is the unit they are doing (IF) then suggesting working suspension isn't that bad an idea... I think RT seem to be able to do magic. Wouldn't rubber or elastic bands be easier? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derekstuart Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Just an observation/ speculation People have mentioned the HST prototype: 1. The prototype HST is still available for scanning 2. No idea 3. It was trialled down to Penzance, Cardiff, Swansea, the WCML, MML and ECML- and by extension Scotland (that's a pretty wide area) 4. BR produced a Bakelite (plastic) model for PR purposes 5. Well last time I checked the HST was powered 6. When you consider it was built roughly at the same time as the prototype APT, which did tilt, it must have seemed a little strange not to have trialled tilting. Last point, Producing the prototype HST would fit into the line up of producing the prototype APT. EDIT: Two more points 7. That silhouette does look a little like the swept back look of the HST 8. Didn't someone say that RT had already said this model will have buffers? Well the HST Prototype did. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsp3970 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 they'd be doing well to find a survivor to laser scan That too, unless they scanned a Trix model! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold stovepipe Posted January 15, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 15, 2015 You know it makes sense! http://www.apt-e.org/index/apt89b.jpg And of course it was running last Autumn at GCR (N). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernman46 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/92791-bill-and-jasons-excellent-uk-adventure/page-3Called it months ago.................. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonC Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 That too, unless they scanned a Trix model! I'd need some convincing that 3D laser scanning a 1960s HO scale model would be the best way to start making a OO gauge model to current standards I think its safe to say Jason isn't teasing us with a new Class 124 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 An HST prototype is certainly something I would buy. Finally we could also have some decent Mk3s too. However this looks like some modern DMU which never saw blue grey, and might just about popped out in NSE toothpaste if I am lucky. Equally shame it is not a Stirling single, but maybe Canadians are not big choo choo fans. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaneofFife Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 apt p? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsp3970 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I'd need some convincing that 3D laser scanning a 1960s HO scale model would be the best way to start making a OO gauge model to current standards I think its safe to say Jason isn't teasing us with a new Class 124 I realize that. Thought came to me as I was typing the response. Well at least I hope that he wouldn't scan a OO class 124! I have my suspicion on what it may be, based on that Rapido seems to like making things that can be sold in sets, or individually. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Jackson Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 APT-p with green faced journalists in the seats and a train guard who is fiddling with the tannoy. DCC sound versions with "Jock, how do you work this thing?" on F12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derekstuart Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Philip I know it was commonly reported in the media at the time that everyone was coming off the APT wanting to die, be sick, sue, get psychological therapy etc, but having been on several of these- including the BRB "thank you to all staff involved" party between Stafford and Glasgow, I don't recognise those comments. Yes, there was some feeling of illness, but you put people in a small office with a glass of water and tell them the walls are in a special new paint and it's super-water and ask them how they feel then half of them will feel ill as that is how they have been conditioned to behave. The feeling of nausea was greatly exaggerated by the media and the APT was in fact cancelled due to budget over-runs. APT-p with green faced journalists in the seats and a train guard who is fiddling with the tannoy. DCC sound versions with "Jock, how do you work this thing?" on F12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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