Derekstuart Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I am really kicking myself for my voyager comments now.... Seriously chaps (and I am as guilty as others) I can see this heading o/t and possibly into the watchful eye of the Yorkminator. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickL2008 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Id say looking at that picture that's definitely a turbostar, recognise that horn anywhere! that and the sloping front as well! and its taken at Birmingham New street by looks of it ... as good as Bachmann's one is, id be interested in a new model of one!NL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatofludham Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I'm not sure anyone complained about HST's when new, Wombat. Certainly not for being cramped! Very spacious MK3s And as for complaining about engine noise.... I can't see that myself. Sorry and all But we are drifting further away from the purpose of this thread- which is to criticise voyagers. Sorry, I mean discuss RT's future release. Oh yes they did, the railway magazines of the time were full of letters complaining about the smelly brakes, windows in second class not lining up with seats, the fixed formations being overcrowded compared to the loco-hauled trains they replaced, the hard, uncomfortable seats with inaccessible window seats due to the fixed armrest, and the fact they were "boring dmus" even though they can't multiple in service. A lot of enthusiasts hated them because they replaced "Deltics" (there were frankly ridiculous tv news reports at the time of the last Deltic showing grown men crying because they were going) and the Westerns. Pop down your library and look at any back issues of the "Railway World" and "Railway Magazine" in 1975-6 and you'll find plenty of letters bemoaning the HST as the end of the interesting railway. As for the Railbuses, again, if they were so hateful people would be deserting them. Around Manchester and provincial towns and cities, far more workplaces have on site car parking which means that driving into places like Leeds and Manchester is less problematical than in London (I remember when I worked at Centro in Birmingham any attempt to introduce any restrictions on workplace parking were vetoed by the local authorities terrified that any attempt to restrict workplace parking would lead to companies relocating across the border to Shire districts, and it's also why there are few workplace parking levies in place across the country), and by and large there are good, high frequency bus alternatives. People using trains in the regional centres have more choice in their travel modes than commuters into London, something the local PTEs recognise by trying to keep fares low. Whilst the railbuses are basic and built down to a price, they clearly are preferable to the car or bus otherwise given the alternatives are available and offer a practical solution in many cases, people would be deserting the lines where the trains work. This is something the DfT can't understand in their London bunker, there isn't a captive commuter market in the majority of big cities, including Birmingham, Manchester and Leeds, there remains a lot of workplace, and municipal and private parking in city centres and for the majority of centres congestion is fairly concentrated in time and location, so when they complain about the low fares in the Northern franchise and the need to reduce the subsidy they don't realise that raising fares will drive people back to driving or the buses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derekstuart Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Ah, you're talking about train spotters- not passengers. Most passengers do not write into anorak monthly to complain that a HST is a DMU.Like I said, we could open a more relevant thread elsewhere if you wish (I mean REALLY want to) but not here, please.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapidotrains Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 Ah, you're talking about train spotters- not passengers. Most passengers do not write into anorak monthly to complain that a HST is a DMU. Like I said, we could open a more relevant thread elsewhere if you wish (I mean REALLY want to) but not here, please.... Oh but I am enjoying this! Both the comparative discussion of Voyagers and HSTs (two of my favourite trains) and the discussion of rail use in the North. As a regular reader of Rail magazine and adoptive "northerner" (well, Birmingham is north of Watford, so...) the issue of Pacers and under-investment in northern rail services is really important to me. -Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAndy Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Isn't it time to give us some more clues Jason?! cheers Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium finelines Posted January 22, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 22, 2015 I used to travel between Euston and Preston when I was a teenager quite often and I used to wonder where the north started. When you got to Crewe you knew you were getting there and when you got to Wigan you knew you were there. There must be similar points on the other mainlines north, but I never travel on them. Roger Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I used to travel between Euston and Preston when I was a teenager quite often and I used to wonder where the north started. When you got to Crewe you knew you were getting there and when you got to Wigan you knew you were there. Sadly it's been recently painted over but this came as good a point of definition of the north/south boundary as I've ever seen and fits your north of Crewe but south of Wigan - https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.181335,-2.368536,3a,75y,315.13h,77.76t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sZpquIVT1hLZjyiHU6AcSGg!2e0!5m1!1e1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derekstuart Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Jason, I have to hand it to you, your marketing is really quite good. 8 pages of discussion, keeping the RT name in the forefront of people's minds, all on a handful of clues. (only one thing- PLEASE don't mention voy****s and HST's in the same post- that's like mentioning the Savoy and mcDonalds together!) Re the North-South thing, does anyone remember when BR went through a phase on the WCML of announcing when you crossed the border- only certain trains and I never heard it Southbound for some odd reason. I don't know if it was official or just proud Scots trumpeting their return home. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium finelines Posted January 22, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 22, 2015 I was tempted to mention Wigan Kebabs and Cobbled Motorways, but there's so much more to the North than that. Roger Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerald Henriksen Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Isn't it time to give us some more clues Jason?! cheers Andy Don't know if Jason intends to announce the model prior to Warley, but given he specifically mentions Warley then he has up to another 10 months to run this, in which case I can't see him posted clues every 2 weeks. If you are really desperate and have any interest in North American equipment then Jason is running another teaser (with an answer this weekend) at http://atlasrescueforum.proboards.com/thread/3240/rapido-news-locomotive-announcement-springfield?page=8 . If you do check it about be aware that the discussion goes off the rails for the last 2 to 3 pages. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapidotrains Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 Re the North-South thing, does anyone remember when BR went through a phase on the WCML of announcing when you crossed the border- only certain trains and I never heard it Southbound for some odd reason. I don't know if it was official or just proud Scots trumpeting their return home. They did that back in the early 2000s on Virgin Trains... There was a collective sigh when we entered Scotland - my wife and I found this quite funny! We must have been in a carriage full of homesick Scots! -Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium finelines Posted January 23, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 23, 2015 The sign saying <London 200 Miles Glasgow> was within about a mile of my house. Time to think about getting your luggage down and out into the corridor ready to get off at Preston, especially if you were behind a 40, 50, 86 or 87. Roger Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted January 25, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 25, 2015 First class always just reeks of the toilets! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derekstuart Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 njee20, I was told by a second class passenger that it's the same in their wagons too, with the only difference being that first class passengers are given a free copy of the times to waft away the smell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted January 26, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 26, 2015 I hadn't realised quite how non-sequential my post was, that was clearly in reference to Voyagers (just as we risked getting back on topic), that'll teach me to browse and post from my phone! At risk of keeping us off topic I really don't think you can correlate increasing passenger volumes with a fondness for the stock. Indeed most of my colleagues (nothing to do with the rail industry) really don't care about what the train is, and are just as happy crammed into a 3+2 seat on an Electrostar as they are in first on an HST! Anywho, as you were! Can't see it being a Turbostar - the Bachmann model, whilst being a few years old, is still very current. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derekstuart Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 No, we can't let it get back ON topic! That'd never do. I would agree that most people aren't ALL that bothered. But look what happened when worst great western replaced its HST's on the far West routes with those over-rated railbuses and used the HSTs on the shorter journeys. Substantial complaints, so they swapped them back. Passengers may not care as such as to what train type they are on. But they have always responded more favourably to the way HST's and other proper trains are laid out. The only time that doesn't seem true is when you talk about doors.... slide and plug doors on HST MK3 and you'd have a great design.Just to keep a vague reference to being on topic, don't forget the repeated predictions of a prototype HST... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Which routes did FGW replace HSTs with railbuses on? I must have missed that one!FGW concentrated their pacers (both the ex Wessex 143s and the temporary 142s) on Exeter based workings - the Barnstaple/Exmouth/Paignton 'Devon Metro' services - previously under Wessex the 143s had mostly been based on workings in the Bristol area. None of those diagrams were HST workings before (or have been taken over by HSTs since) AFAIK. Now, they have managed to make their HST's feel a lot less comfortable and inviting in that time... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derekstuart Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 No, not the 142/3 railbuses, the voyager like things. I don't know what you call them (and really can't be bothered to look I'm afraid) but they did something that no other railbus has achieved- they made voyagers seem appealing. OK I've looked- adelante. Depressing little things and I genuinely would prefer to travel in a 142/3 than one of those. The 142/3 might well be un-comfortable for a long journey, but at least that reminds you that you're alive. The adelante just reminds me of being locked in a funny little box and not quite sure if I'm alive or passed over. No doubt there will be adelante fans out there who will have a difference of opinion- that's nice, and that's what the forum is for.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Not sure what you're mixing up, Adelante's weren't used that much in the far West, they mostly did Exeter semi fasts and Chiltern workings from memory, with an occasional Plymouth or Cardiff at times - the cars were very heavily based on the excellent Mk3 coach (even down to the window arrangement!) and even (uniquely in British Intercity trains since the HST!) managed to have the seats lined up with the windows - even in standard - making for massive standard class legroom. Quick, comfortable, spacious, and the extra trains in the fleet allowed FGW to run a much more intensive "semi fast" between Paddington and Exeter than it had been, serving places like Westbury - what's not to love? Okay they were a bit rubbish mechanically* which is why FGW got shot of them (the first time) - but passenger comfort wise i'd rate them as the best Intercity trains since the HST.(*Okay, they were a lot rubbish mechanically before Alstom decided that product support was something that even French companies should try and do - even to the point of starting to build a reputation for spontaneous combustion - well you wouldn't want a boring train now would you! ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derekstuart Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Well they did trial them on longer services which proved un-popular. I can see why you would say that they are superficially similar to a Mk3. Though I have yet to travel on a HST MK3 that had a large Cummins diesel stuck underneath it. When I pay a couple of hundred quid to travel on a train, I don't expect it to sound like a cross between a RR RB211 and a JCB vying underneath my seat to see which can make the most noise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaneofFife Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 so true.vomiters are horrid things if you want a relaxing quiet journey.........HST any day of the week Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derekstuart Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 There is a discussion elsewhere on this forum discussing whether the like/dislike buttons need to be changed. On the basis of your post, I am going to suggest a "I nominate this as post of the week" button. so true.vomiters are horrid things if you want a relaxing quiet journey.........HST any day of the week Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted January 29, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 29, 2015 Has anyone suggested the APT-E yet.........? Cheers, Mick Oops, hat, coat, getting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigP Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 -- Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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