Oxfordrail Wagons

[Mark Saunders]

 

Not scientific, I know, but I asked a long-established retailer to estimate the proportion of his customers and local club members who model pre-1948 and even I was surprised at the low figure he came up with; roughly one in eight.

 

Not surprisingly, given that most people model a period they can remember, that was much reduced from when he started in the business.

 

When I enquired about pre-1923, he started mentioning people by name and counting on his fingers!

 

 

 

 

Modelling pre 1923 does not automatically rule out the production of such models!

 

The pre 1923 RCH wagons were not wiped out because the RCH changed the specifications and they lasted till worn out and withdrawn!

 

 

Mark Saunders

[Dunsignalling]

Modelling pre 1923 does not automatically rule out the production of such models!

 

The pre 1923 RCH wagons were not wiped out because the RCH changed the specifications and they lasted till worn out and withdrawn!

 

 

Mark Saunders

True, but, largely due to their limited capacity, few survived once the extreme conditions that ensured the survival of anything remotely serviceable through WW2 ceased to pertain. 

 

8-ton wagons were largely extinct before 1923 * 1947 and 10-tonners disappeared pretty quickly with the coming of 16t. steel-bodied mineral wagons.

 

There were undoubtedly odd survivors used as glorified wheel barrows within yards into BR days but they were very much the exception. 

 

My point was that, with a few notable exceptions, "mainstream" BR era modellers won't have a prototypical justification to run pre-group wagons.

 

Of those that survived the war, many were discarded as beyond economic repair even before 1948. Lots more were withdrawn "on receipt" by BR, and most of the rest disappeared in the big BR "stock-takes" of 1950 and 1952, rendered surplus to requirements by the new-build standard designs and probably having seen little use for some years prior to that.

 

If (and I don't for one moment state it to be 100% accurate) the final two decades of our steam railway history are chosen by well over half of OO modellers, it is inevitable that commercial producers will primarily choose wagons that survived into that period.

 

When I first entered the hobby, the Grouping era was very dominant amongst established modellers and pre-group was not uncommon, simply because that's what these guys grew up with. BR modellers were often greeted with some disbelief, IIRC; that's why Parkside's early kits were of mainly BR or late group prototypes. Times have changed, and their recent releases and those from the other main producer, Cambrian, tend to be of early-grouping or late pre-group origin.

 

This is a natural progression; once we Baby Boomers shuffle off, there will be a much more level playing field, albeit a rather smaller one. Whether that will be enough to keep the r-t-r boys going at all, is open to debate, but I'm not of an age where I can afford to wait and see.

 

Accordingly, I have in the last year or two, leavened my mix of r-t-r wagons by turning out a number of suitable kiit-builts; Cambrian vans of SECR and late Midland/early LMS provenance plus Parkside pre-1923 GWR Minks and LMS/LNER cattle wagons. I've also "bashed" a Ratio SR van into an early 9' wb example on a modified Cambrian underframe. Next will be a Mink C based on an old Ian Kirk kit purchased at a swapmeet for barely the current price of the (included) wheels.

 

Wagon kits are an absolute joy, and anyone who doesn't have a go is really missing out IMHO.

 

John

 

Edit: *  Thanks for pointing out my typing error.

[Edwardian]

Well, that's the crux of it for me.  The 1970s I, too, recall as having a very high proportion of Grouping layouts.  Now, in any given exhibition hall it's wall to wall Transition Era, with a significant leavening of 'Modern Image', 3 or 4 foreign layouts, 2 Grouping and 1 pre-Grouping (if you're lucky). The same is true cover to cover in most magazines. Fortunately, I find I enjoy or draw inspiration from something in most layouts, even though I find myself ignoring stock (!), but I often wonder whether the general public, which includes many young families, finds our current obsession the '50s and '60s somewhat "samey".

 

The trouble is, if the generational nostalgia cycle holds good, we are but a few years away from wall to wall and cover to cover blue diesels.  That is my era for nostalgia, yet not one shred of it do I feel.  In fact, I found the state of the network in the Corporate Image Age of the Train, somewhat depressing. I don't want a model of it, it was bad enough in reality.  I fear, and I don't like the thought, that I will struggle to engage with the mainstream hobby when this era becomes the norm.

 

Wouldn't it be nice, then, if new entrants and the visiting public were offered a choice between that and rather more colourful steam-age models, making other eras more accessible and, therefore, dare I say, increasingly popular.

 

So, well done Oxford on the choice of Dean Goods and pre-Group wagon.  Please keep it up; it will make life so much more varied and interesting. 

 

Look at the interest and admiration, justifiably, provoked by Burntisland 1883.  Not a typical example, but it shows that a taste for such things exists.  Break the generational cycle; explore more of the glorious past!

[Poggy1165]

I wonder if this is a chicken and egg argument.

 

I suspect that if there was (for example) a fairly comprehensive range of 4mm scale Caley or LBSC prototypes, a lot more people would be modelling the Caley or the LBSC. The majority (IMHO) model what they do because RTR for that era is freely available. Once you step away from this, life becomes harder. So often one hears the cry 'why doesn't Hornby/Bachmann/The Man in the Moon produce a model of X in livery Y?'. Because that's what most people are waiting for. Their particular desiderata to be provided RTR by the trade. 

[Edwardian]

Poggy - I think you are spot on right.  100% so.  Nail on head.

 

I have long said "build it and they will come".

 

If I am right about that, though, why, for example, are there still Bachmann Umber-liveried E4s kicking around (and, at less than I paid for them)?  Goodness knows, it's a fine enough model.

 

Well, I would suggest that's because, in pre-Grouping guise, it's the first and ONLY accurate widely available RTR Brighton loco.  Eventually, there may be a Brighton Atlantic (though not even planned for Brighton livery initially), but you can't model a line with one tank engine, the hope of one express engine and no coaches.

 

The coverage is just too patchy, too random.  Many of the "pre-Grouping" models out there only represent the preserved condition, and are inaccurate for the livery. While I welcome the Locomotion Models style commissions (I have a GNR Atlantic thanks to them, which I never thought would happen), this approach can perpetuate the random selection of scattered prototypes and, sometimes, the representation of inaccurate models (e.g. City class in pre-1906 livery). 

 

So long as RTR manufacturers just flirt with pre-Grouping subjects in this way, sales will, I guess, go mainly to collectors, who like the fact that something is pretty (or, better still, perceived as rare) over accuracy, and don't need to incorporate it into a particular layout scheme. 

 

I mentioned recently that to kick start layout projects the length and breadth of the nation, one need only take some of the larger and best known pre-Grouping companies and produce a small number of small-engine types suitable for branch and secondary mainline layouts; an 0-6-0 goods, an 0-6-0T, a 4-coupled passenger tank and a small 4-coupled passenger tender engine.  One type of coach and a goods brake and you have a viable project that kits and growing skills can supplement.  It gives people a start in the hobby.  The cottage industry would gain more customers for kits etc over time, not fewer.

 

It may be objected that there is just too much choice for such an approach to be taken, too many companies and designs, designs were changed and modified over the years.  True, however, a few sensible parameters might be evolved that would set us on our way.  A good starting point might be the Edwardian period, and up to WW1.  This must be a prime candidate for the label "golden age" and allows people to work both forward and back from it in time, for greater coverage.  Many of the designs that typified the inter-war Grouping years were introduced at this time.  Many would not have received major modification over this period, but, it is practical to tool for variations and modifications where they did occur.  Many new releases do this as a matter of course nowadays.

 

I have also heard it said that new entrants should model with what's available RTR and then move onto more esoteric subjects when their skills permit.  Some of us may feel that we lack the time and skills for such an approach.  Moreover, why should I do this; expend precious time and resources to produce a layout I don't really want set in an era that doesn't really interest me? 

 

Faced with current RTR coverage, I feared that I was simply not going to make a start.  My personal solution is to choose a small light railway project to learn the trade, as it were, and because it is, frankly, easier as an entrant to the hobby to start a RTR-dependent pre-Grouping layout on a small scale with a freelance line. I would like to think that a mainline company would be a practical proposition before too much longer.

[No Decorum]

Why are there still umber E4s still available cheaply? A good question. I had a long and interesting chat with a Bachmann chap and we strayed onto the subject of the Wainwright C. The original model sold out very rapidly (£69 mine cost). It hasn’t been repeated despite much wailing but subsequent variants seem to sell well too. I was told that the reaction at Bachmann was along the lines of, “Hello, what’s going on here?”

 

Why the C should sell but the E4 drag a bit is a mystery to me – both are stunning. From my own point of view, the E4 has been one of the most satisfying models of recent times.

 

Now we are promised a 4F in Midland livery. Bachmann already produces a Midland brake van. Are we al last getting a bit of joined up pre-group thinking here? The Collectors’ Club works rather well, in that it often offers livery variants which might not sell well in the main range but appeal to fewer folk. Leaving aside that the wagons aren’t quite authentic, the Club produced a rake of wagons for the C – might we hope for a rake in Midland livery? Then they could be augmented by SE&C, CL & NB, a few PO and we might have something that might pass muster from 3' away.

[Mark Saunders]

A major source of confusion is the carrying capacity of wagons, in 1939 all were uprated:-

 

8t uprated to 10t

 

10t uprated  to 12t

 

12t uprated to 13t

 

14t uprated to 16t

 

15t uprated to 17t

 

20t uprated to 21t

 

Mark Saunders

[Poggy1165]

A great deal of pre-group coaching stock was still around in the 1950s and even the early 1960s, particularly on branch lines and similar backwaters. I'll admit it did depend to some extent on the region, as some were more 'modern' than others. A lot of people seem to think that Mark 1s were everywhere, but this is not the case. 

 

As for Private Owner wagons, they really do not belong on any BR layout, except in extremely worn condition, with, at best, faded original liveries, most of which were patched, almost all of which will have had WW2 small owners' lettering added at some point. Being post 1923 built is really the least of it, but certainly they should not (in 99.9% of cases) be resplendent in bogus liveries from before 1914. Still less should shiny block trains of them be running around behind diesels. Except, maybe, on a representation of something like the Severn Valley Railway as it is now. Without wishing in any way to be rude, there seems to be a bit of cognitive dissonance around Private Owner wagons. People seem happy to run them on (relatively) modern layouts simply because the liveries are attractive. Maybe they would also run rakes of LNWR coaching stock in original livery if such vehicles were readily available. 

[Dunsignalling]

A major source of confusion is the carrying capacity of wagons, in 1939 all were uprated:-

 

8t uprated to 10t

 

10t uprated  to 12t

 

12t uprated to 13t

 

14t uprated to 16t

 

15t uprated to 17t

 

20t uprated to 21t

 

Mark Saunders

On paper, definitely, but I doubt there would have been too many 8t. wagons left to actually uprate at that point. A few late Victorian vans of that size were certainly still around (though probably not for much longer) but I suspect that all but a few 8t. mineral and coal wagons would have gone much earlier. The NBR wagons being produced by Oxford were reputedly very tough and would have been well represented among whatever remained but are unlikely to have been in regular use by then.

 

Empty 8T mineral/coal wagons weren't much lighter empty than their larger brethren so the low payload caused them to be priced off the system fairly quickly. The same happened to larger ones later (though more slowly) because the tare weight of 14/16t all-steel wagons was often less than their 10/12/13t timber-built counterparts. 

 

Either way, hundreds of thousands of old wagons became firewood between 1945 and 1952. By the latter date, even late pre-group wagons were 30 years old and vulnerable. Wagons dating back to pre-WW1 days and still in a condition worth repairing for main line use would have been very thin on the ground.  

 

If not scrapped, old mineral wagons generally ended their days as internal user vehicles in collieries and I remember seeing some truly ancient survivors well into the 1970s which had probably been there for half a century or more but that's not the same thing as surviving into BR days in revenue traffic.  

 

John

[BG John]

So if colourful liveried PO wagons are totally out of place on modern layouts, but people are happy to run them, why can't the RTR versions be produced on the correct period wagons? Would getting the wagon correct stop those people buying them? It could help to create a market for genuine pre-grouping models, without losing sales to existing buyers. Even I might buy some!

[Edwardian]

I have thought for some time that it is quite barking that, year on year, we get new PO wagons in colourful Grouping era or pre-Grouping era when the coaches and locomotives predominantly represent the post-nationalisation era.  Quite mad. 

 

Another example of patchy and not-joined-up releases:

 

• We have a nice selection of Great Western 4-6-0s for the Grouping era.  Yet only now, after years of neglect, do we get any decent coaches to run with them.  This illustrates another facet of the RTR market coaches to complement locomotive releases have always come a very poor second.  Better very, very ;ate than never, I suppose.

• Of course, the GW rarely ran a set or uniform rake, so you would need, at least, a range of 57' toplights to mix in with your 57' Colletts if you want to be even remotely representative. People keep asking for toplights RTR and I am sure they would be bought if produced.  Still scanning that distant horizon.

• Of course, half of what those big 4-6-0s were pulling was 70' stock, so, again, you can't begin to be representative unless you have these too.  These coaches were very long-lived, including the wooden jobs from 1905; they had to be as the GW stopped building them in the early '20s (before the 57' variety Hornby is releasing were produced), yet never stopped using them extensively on the principal express routes.  Use continued into the WR years.

 

The problem is collectors again, I suspect. They like colourful wagons.  They like big shiny express locomotives.  Never mind the clash of eras or that you have no stock to run your express service with or anything at all with which to run a lesser service.  Yes, we cannot have a model of everything, but the RTR market has for years been bizarrely imbalanced, and almost determined to ensure that no one subject can be modelled.  The RTR market sometimes seems to be a blunderbuss randomly filled with the shiniest gaws gaws, scattering them far and wide but hitting nothing. 

 

EDIT: Possibly got a bit carried away there!  In RTR releases, even for the non-BR modeller, there is much of use and much to be thankful for.

 

BUT, joined up releases for the non-BR modeller?  It's a thought.

[Dunsignalling]

I think the big thing that deters the r-t-r manufacturers from moving into pre-group to a significant degree is choice - there is simply too much of it!

 

Railway history in Britain is like a pyramid with the present day being the point on top.

 

As one looks back in time, prototype 'niches' increase in number and decrease in size. The further you go, the more it happens. Moreover, the available modellers are shared between them, resulting in each having a relatively small number of adherents.

 

Many of these niches are astonishingly well catered-for in terms of kits, usually because an able modeller wanted particular models for himself and decided to finance his own needs by producing and selling a surplus.

 

Unfortunately for those with hankerings after engines with oodles of brass and elaborate lining straight out of the box, the interest is just spread too wide and too thin to justify the r-t-r trade indulging in more than an occasional "lollipop" like the Stirling Single or coincidental opportunity like the fully lined version of the Bachmann C class.

 

The former is a premium price special aimed primarily at collectors rather than runners and (despite the prices realised subsequently) the latter only happened because the prototypes were quite numerous and lasted long enough to furnish a sufficient choice of liveries to make it viable. I doubt they'd have done it but for No.596 running so finished in preservation but, conversely, that may have been the clincher in their producing the 'C' at all. 

 

In short, it's a numbers game; the individual numbers are worryingly small and they only stack up very occasionally.

 

What might catch the market's imagination next is highly unpredictable and, if there's anything the business world abhors and goes to great lengths to avoid, it's unpredictability.

 

John   

[Edwardian]

John,

 

That is the traditional counsel of despair, and that is not to say it is not a real issue, but, as I say above, I believe there is a way around this, and it is perfectly possible to make such a 'representative selection' comprise types that, with little or no modification, can also be used in Grouping or even BR guise.

 

No disrespect to you, Sir, but with what the RTR producers have shown is possible over the last few years, the 'too much to choose from' argument is staring to sound like a lazy excuse.  A rational and joined up programme of selective pre-Grouping releases that are mutually complementary AND which also support later periods is more than achievable.  It needs vision, the Will and a modicum of Balls, that is all. 

[Mark Saunders]

John,

 

That is the traditional counsel of despair, and that is not to say it is not a real issue, but, as I say above, I believe there is a way around this, and it is perfectly possible to make such a 'representative selection' comprise types that, with little or no modification, can also be used in Grouping or even BR guise.

 

No disrespect to you, Sir, but with what the RTR producers have shown is possible over the last few years, the 'too much to choose from' argument is staring to sound like a lazy excuse.  A rational and joined up programme of selective pre-Grouping releases that are mutually complementary AND which also support later periods is more than achievable.  It needs vision, the Will and a modicum of Balls, that is all. 

 

 

I think that it is there is no joined up thinking in the hobby with Locomotives taking centre stage followed by express passenger coaching stock with anything else as an also ran!

 

Mark Saunders

[Dunsignalling]

John,

 

That is the traditional counsel of despair, and that is not to say it is not a real issue, but, as I say above, I believe there is a way around this, and it is perfectly possible to make such a 'representative selection' comprise types that, with little or no modification, can also be used in Grouping or even BR guise.

 

No disrespect to you, Sir, but with what the RTR producers have shown is possible over the last few years, the 'too much to choose from' argument is staring to sound like a lazy excuse.  A rational and joined up programme of selective pre-Grouping releases that are mutually complementary AND which also support later periods is more than achievable.  It needs vision, the Will and a modicum of Balls, that is all. 

What you suggest is already occurring to some extent, via commissioners like Kernow Models (though the Gate sets currently under development aren't strictly pre-group) and may, at least in part, represent a way forward.

 

If commissioned models sell well, the mainstream manufacturers are likely to look favourably upon the niche they occupy. Or jump on the band-wagon if one is feeling cynical.

 

However, the $64,000 question remains unanswered; Who does the selecting and on what basis?

 

You and I could undoubtedly come up with personal wish-lists of (say) five items to fit your criteria but, in all probability, mine would not include any of those on yours.

 

Multiply this by the number of people in the hobby and it would get immeasurably complex unless one can devise an effective way of analysing the results.

 

Such choices are, unfortunately, an open invitation for everyone to grind their own personal axe and the critical point as to "what items from other peoples' lists but not on your own, would you be willing to purchase, and how many?" will be lost in the fog.

 

The annual wish-list polls do clarify matters to some extent but they are too wide-ranging and don't fulfil the need expressed above. Moreover, the votes cast for all but the very top choices, drop to very low numbers and are highly fragmented. Too much choice, again.

 

If, in addition to the main vote, everyone was invited to pick their personal favourite (or two) from the Top Five pre-group choices (including any conditional longevity you might wish to impose) from the previous year's poll, we'd get closer to the reliable data the r-t-r trade really needs if they are to be lured into serving the pre-group market more often.

 

John

[Edwardian]

No, I don't think that wish-lists are the way to achieve consensus.  Besides, which, BG John will pop up and say that unless it's a particular variant he had in mid for 1905, it's all a waste of time!

 

But, If a manufacturer said 'right, lets do, say, a C2X or K class, a goods brake, a 4-coach Billington non-corridor bogie set, all of which would look equally good in SR and BR colours', then, together with Bachmann's E4, the Brighton is something someone can now model. 

 

Or, how about a J6, K1, or 4-4-0 and some Howlden coaches, and some wagons and a goods brake for the GNR, because Hornby do an N2 and 0-6-0Ts and Locomotion do a smashing Atlantic. 

 

What about some elliptically roofed LNWR 57' corridor coaches in LNWR and LMS liveries?, and BR for all I know?

 

If someone just got on and did this, imposed, if you like, these on the market, don't try to tell me that there will not be more than one market for each of these and more. 

[asmay2002]

On paper, definitely, but I doubt there would have been too many 8t. wagons left to actually uprate at that point. A few late Victorian vans of that size were certainly still around (though probably not for much longer) but I suspect that all but a few 8t. mineral and coal wagons would have gone much earlier. The NBR wagons being produced by Oxford were reputedly very tough and would have been well represented among whatever remained but are unlikely to have been in regular use by then.

 

BR inherited 14167 8ton private owner wagons in 1948 of which over 10000 dated to before 1907 and only 886 after 1923.  They also inherited 231119 10 ton wagons of which 64737 were built or rebuilt in the 1907-1923 period and 144129 built before 1907.  Of the 300998 12 or 13 tons wagons they got more than half (166816) were built before 1923.  The 1923 wagons represented a relatively smaller percentage of the main total than you might expect probably because of the depression.  The 8 and 10 tonners with grease axleboxes made up 45% of the ex PO wagon fleet inherited by BR.  Only 25% of the fleet was to the 1923 specification.   This was the main reason why steel 16 tonners were built so fast.  Very few of the 1923 wagons were scrapped before 1958 but by 1966 all of the ex PO wagons were gone. There were still over 126000 grease axlebox (i.e. pre 1923) wagons in 1954 (compared to about 154000 1923 wagons) but they had gone by 1958.  The scrapping criteria related to the construction of the wagon.  All wood wagons were scrapped if more than 40 years old, all steel ones if more than 30 years old and wooden bodied wagons on steel underframes if more than 25 years old. I think this is because rainwater on coal dissolves acidic substances out of the coal and rots the steel parts.

 

About 390000 PO wagons got BR numbers meaning that about 150000 were scrapped relatively quickly.  Some were very old.  The oldest wagon scrapped in the first 6 months of 1952 dated from 1863 with other singletons from 1870 and 1876. 

 

There were a couple of excellent articles on the ex PO wagons in BRILL April and May 2004 from which these numbers are taken.

[autocoach]

Andy/other admins can we change the name of this thread to specify Oxfordrail 7 Plank wagons. There is now a separate thread for those who would beseech Oxford Rail to produce their favorite article of rolling stock.

[Andy Hayter]

I tried to reply last night when the system crashed.

 

I am in agreement with Edwardian that the production of "complete" trains for selected larger pre-grouping comanies would open up a new business area for the manufacturers.

 

Why has the SECR C class sold and the E4 not sold?   In my mind quite simply because the C class came with a promise (not yet fulfilled) of a rake of coaches to go with it.  The E4 has what?  ER, um, oh yes a Hornby brake van! 

[No Decorum]

No, I don't think that wish-lists are the way to achieve consensus.  Besides, which, BG John will pop up and say that unless it's a particular variant he had in mid for 1905, it's all a waste of time!

 

But, If a manufacturer said 'right, lets do, say, a C2X or K class, a goods brake, a 4-coach Billington non-corridor bogie set, all of which would look equally good in SR and BR colours', then, together with Bachmann's E4, the Brighton is something someone can now model. 

 

Or, how about a J6, K1, or 4-4-0 and some Howlden coaches, and some wagons and a goods brake for the GNR, because Hornby do an N2 and 0-6-0Ts and Locomotion do a smashing Atlantic. 

 

What about some elliptically roofed LNWR 57' corridor coaches in LNWR and LMS liveries?, and BR for all I know?

 

If someone just got on and did this, imposed, if you like, these on the market, don't try to tell me that there will not be more than one market for each of these and more. 

Excellent example of joined-up thnking, if I  may say so.

[Edwardian]

Andy, that was my thought also concerning the C Class.

 

I am concerned that many potential purchasers will be put off buying some of these RTR beauties because they will despair that there will ever be anything to go with them. 

 

Funnily enough, the accolade for first pre-Grouping RTR coaches to modern standards must go to Peco, for the OO9 L&Bs.  Even there, the moulding is designed for the Grouping period, as I believe the L&B liveried version should have toplights (though I am no expert on this Line, I hastily add!).

 

The Bachmann Birdcages would have sold.  Similar LSWR and LBSCR sets would sell and give us something to run with the Drummond liveried M7 and the Umber Liveried E4 as well as with their Olive Green counterparts.  The SECR H Class is a wish-list favourite, as are the E and D classes.  There are a number of popular locomotive releases that the Birdcages would support, and the same would be true of coach sets for other pre-Grouping companies.

 

Joined up thinking may be starting to emerge, look at the Gate Stock and the Hornby rebuilt LSWR coaches.  Of course, neither the 1914 vintage Gate Stock nor its O2 have a pre-Grouping livery option and the Hornby stock is useless for anything before the late '30s.  This suggests that pretty pre-Grouping liveries are seen as occasional optional extras and just for the collectors; precious few tooling decisions take account of the possibility of back-dated versions (e.g. Hornby's ex-LSWR T9 and 700 Classes).

 

I'd better add "7-plank wagons", just to be on the safe side.

[Garethp8873]

Seems the recent news from Kernow Model Rail Centre has not been seen...

 

Several Golden Valley Hobbies/Oxford Rail Triple Packs have been added to the Kernow's website.

 

These include:

 

GV6012 Oxford Rail 7 Plank Open Wagon Triple Pack NCB £26.99

 

GV6013 Oxford Rail 7 Plank Open Wagon Triple Pack BSC £26.99

 

GV6014 Oxford Rail 7 Plank Open Wagon Triple Pack BP £26.99

 

GV6015 Oxford Rail 7 Plank Open Wagon Triple Pack PLA

 

It's exciting to see Kernow now doing several triple wagon packs. Let's just hope the triple packs idea is introduced to several of Oxford Rail's other wagons Whilst I know what NCB, BSC and PLA stand for, what does BP stand for?

[rembrow]

 

Seems the recent news from Kernow Model Rail Centre has not been seen...

 

Several Golden Valley Hobbies/Oxford Rail Triple Packs have been added to the Kernow's website.

 

These include:

 

GV6012 Oxford Rail 7 Plank Open Wagon Triple Pack NCB £26.99

 

GV6013 Oxford Rail 7 Plank Open Wagon Triple Pack BSC £26.99

 

GV6014 Oxford Rail 7 Plank Open Wagon Triple Pack BP £26.99

 

GV6015 Oxford Rail 7 Plank Open Wagon Triple Pack PLA

 

It's exciting to see Kernow now doing several triple wagon packs. Let's just hope the triple packs idea is introduced to several of Oxford Rail's other wagons Whilst I know what NCB, BSC and PLA stand for, what does BP stand for?

 

These are not Kernow commissions, they are being produced by Oxford for Golden Valley, to accompany the Yorkshire Engine Co 'Janus' diesel 0-6-0 industrial shunter, which will be produced in the same company liveries. Golden Valley are selling the locos and triple wagon packs through authorised retailers, Kernow being one of them, but there are several others. The release of the 'Janus' loco has its own thread with the wagons being partially covered.

[micklner]

I tried to reply last night when the system crashed.

 

I am in agreement with Edwardian that the production of "complete" trains for selected larger pre-grouping comanies would open up a new business area for the manufacturers.

 

Why has the SECR C class sold and the E4 not sold?   In my mind quite simply because the C class came with a promise (not yet fulfilled) of a rake of coaches to go with it.  The E4 has what?  ER, um, oh yes a Hornby brake van! 

 

     C Class nice shade of Green and very colourful lining out and pulling a Tender and the E4 in comparison in Plain Brown with a Single colour lining and to some people a boring Tank engine. To the casual buyer only one is a winner every time, looks are a big seller for many people.

    How many people actually model the LBSC and all the other pre grouping companies prior to 1923 , is there anyway of judging the demand ? that is a major problem for r.t.r makers they cant just rely on wish lists  and forums for the actual demand and risk the costs of unsold models.

[Budgie]

How many people actually model the LBSC and all the other pre grouping companies prior to 1923; is there anyway of judging the demand? That is a major problem for r.t.r makers they cant just rely on wish lists  and forums for the actual demand and risk the costs of unsold models.

Whatever happened to rule 1: It's my railway, and I'll run what I like?