Rail-Online Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 As long as it sells, and I'm sure there will be plenty of people willing to buy it, then commerically it isn't a poor choice. The point of picking a PO wagon as the first model is you can sell it in lots of different colours to keep the cash flow going. Let's face it, that's what Dapol does with their far poorer wagon model. Yes it will sell, just like Slaters wagon kits did, that's why lots of layouts have 'Thane of Leamington' (lasted about 6 months) running about. There are those of us who strive for accuracy in our layouts, and the correct PO's are a quite important to me Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 There isn't a problem with fictitious or inaccurate liveries per se. If they look 'nice' or representative, people will indeed buy them even when they know they are inaccurate. Having said that, it is very nice to know when a livery is fictitious or inaccurate as a part of the purchasing decision. Some people will only choose accurate livery/diagram/period/regional combinations and some really don't care, but I (and I suspect others) fall in between where I'd at least like to make a fully informed choice, even if I do decide to purchase something that is not strictly accurate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 And for those of us who actually model the period the livery is taken from, it would be nice to see it on the right wagon. If that happened, I might even buy it and bung some EM wheels under it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Parker Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Yes it will sell, just like Slaters wagon kits did, that's why lots of layouts have 'Thane of Leamington' (lasted about 6 months) running about. There are those of us who strive for accuracy in our layouts, and the correct PO's are a quite important to me Tony No one is forcing you to buy an incorrect wagon as far as I'm aware. If you mean that "incorrect" wagons shouldn't be on sale though the I disagree. If any modeller strives for accuracy then it's up to them to do their on research as you have done. Others have different priorities - it's a big hobby after all. The Thane wagon comment is a good case in point. I run one on most of my layouts as I live in Leamington. Wrong? Yes. Fun? Yes. I'm sure Slaters and Powsides both benefit from this as much as Dapol, Bachmann and Oxford. We get the choice,they get cashflow to invest in other products, which we can then enjoy. Seems everyone wins. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Parker Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 There isn't a problem with fictitious or inaccurate liveries per se. If they look 'nice' or representative, people will indeed buy them even when they know they are inaccurate. Having said that, it is very nice to know when a livery is fictitious or inaccurate as a part of the purchasing decision. Some people will only choose accurate livery/diagram/period/regional combinations and some really don't care, but I (and I suspect others) fall in between where I'd at least like to make a fully informed choice, even if I do decide to purchase something that is not strictly accurate. It depends on your definition of accurate. As I understand it, Oxfordrail are painting accurate liveries on wagons too modern to carry them. The paint is right, the plastic is right, they just shouldn't be together. I suppose full details could be printed in tiny text on the box but then RMweb would be full of pedantic arguments over the accuracy of this info or demanding to know why they haven't included a listing of locations the agony was found in August 1923. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Lee Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 There isn't a problem with fictitious or inaccurate liveries per se. If they look 'nice' or representative, people will indeed buy them even when they know they are inaccurate. One of the wagons I purchased on my recent trip to the UK was a (non-Oxfordrail) 6-wheeled tank wagon in the 'Polegate Treacle Mines' livery. Not sure, but I do have my suspicions as to whether or not it is entirely authentic or not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 'Polegate Treacle Mines' livery. Not sure, but I do have my suspicions as to whether or not it is entirely authentic or not. It's not. The only Treacle mine in the UK was a Fen Ditton, just outside Cambridge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted October 8, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 8, 2015 It is a minefield out there. I used to think that my "Palethorpes Pork Sausages" van was unreal until I saw an article about Palethorpes in a mag.I mean who could have a name like that. So I thought ooh Hornby must be accurate. Imagine my surprise to find out that Kellogs didn't really run bright blue vans with silver wheels or that Blue Circle cement tankers weren't really bright yellow, but err the colour of..............cement! Its a wonder I get to sleep at night. Just hoping my Duracell and Polo Mint tankers are OK........ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combe Martin Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 One of the wagons I purchased on my recent trip to the UK was a (non-Oxfordrail) 6-wheeled tank wagon in the 'Polegate Treacle Mines' livery. Not sure, but I do have my suspicions as to whether or not it is entirely authentic or not. We all know that the Dapol and Hornby 6 wheel milk tankers are not accurate .... don't we ? Both are 'generic' representations, the underframe being 'sort of' meant to be an ex-GWR type, but with enough errors. The tanks too have problems with the strapping at least. Despite this, when I once asked Hornby's Simon Kolher if we could have some accurate milk tankers please, and pointing out the inaccuracies in the current model, he said 'well we've sold plenty of them' ! Producing an accurate one shouldn't be too difficult, there's plenty of preserved ones to copy. So it seems there's a common theme ... If it looks nice it'll sell whether it's accurate or not. I'd still like someone to produce an accurate milk tanker though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted October 8, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 8, 2015 I have a sackfull of rivets that need counting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Welchester Posted October 8, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 8, 2015 I suppose full details could be printed in tiny text on the box but then RMweb would be full of pedantic arguments over the accuracy of this info or demanding to know why they haven't included a listing of locations the agony was found in August 1923. The joys of predictive text? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 As the majority of buyers don't seem bothered about accuracy, why don't the manufacturers produce older PO wagons? They lasted for a long time, so would have been contemporary with the older liveries produced, and wouldn't be out of place on pre and post grouping layouts for those who do care about reasonable accuracy. With Slaters 4mm kits having disappeared into a black hole, there could also be a useful new market for them. If this discussion was about locos, everyone would be up in arms about the minutest detail being wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
amdaley Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 I think we all try to be as accurate as possible within certain limits but if we were to be totally accurate then quite a few of us would never run anything. Yes it may be very important to be totally accurate if modelling a particular location at a particular time but most modellers don't have the time or skill to be that precise. I greatly admire modellers who have the patience, skill & ability to produce the wonderful layouts & models we often see at exhibitions. Some people are truly gifted. I myself come from the camp of if it looks right then it is right. I was hoping that Oxford Rail would produce fine models accurate in every detail but I suppose they have to pay the bills as well. In any case I don't have the knowledge to tell where they are wrong. I have to be guided by the wisdom of others on that. I have the first three wagons in front of me here & all I know is that they look like lovely models, produced at a competitive price & I'm sure they will sell by the wagon load. I look forward to Oxford's first loco which I hope will be a good representation of the model in question. Again I will be guided by others at to its accuracy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 I think we all try to be as accurate as possible within certain limits but if we were to be totally accurate then quite a few of us would never run anything. That's the attitude I'm taking at the moment, but I'm not running "modern" PO wagons on my 1905ish EM layout. I would however, buy reasonable RTR models of contemporary wagons and re-wheel them, even if they had inaccuracies. I think there are inaccuracies in the Oxford wagon, but I would live with them (or maybe fix them) if it was the right date. Few people would lose out if they had modelled an earlier prototype, but others would gain from it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
asmay2002 Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 I think the disappointing thing is that they could so easily have done a 1907 PO rather than yet another 1923 one. That would have given them a far better chance of matching liveries to wagons and produced something different from other RTR. 45% of the fleet inherited by BR were 8 & 10 ton wagons and more of the 12 /13 tonners were built before 1923 than after. The older wagons outnumbered the 1923 ones into BR days. It took BR until 1958 to eliminate the older wagons but the 1923 ones didn't last much longer all being gone by 1966. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 or that Blue Circle cement tankers weren't really bright yellow, but err the colour of..............cement! They were bright yellow when introduced! And had great big boards on the side declaring their ownership. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted October 8, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 8, 2015 They were bright yellow when introduced! And had great big boards on the side declaring their ownership. Paul Were they? Someone told me not, and any pics I've seen show them in grey. I'm talking about the Hornby cement tanker from the early 70s . The real thing was quite often seen at Uddingston and Oxwellmains in Scotland, but I've never seen a yellow one. Same with the pressflos. Any info or pics to contrary would be very helpful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 The Airfix label and later box for Presflo (note spelling!) from c1962 is accurate. The first batch were yellow and there are photos on internet including on Pete Watermans blog. Whether the ones in Scotland were like that I don't know. Hornby didn't operate any wagons. Paul I can't find the picture or the blog, but there is much discussion of this livery on RMWeb, see post 40 in http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/5368-presflo-wagons/page-2 see 7m 42 7th and 8th wagon http://www.britishpa...cord.php?id=438clearly different to the later batch delivered in grey. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Were they? Someone told me not, and any pics I've seen show them in grey. I'm talking about the Hornby cement tanker from the early 70s . The real thing was quite often seen at Uddingston and Oxwellmains in Scotland, but I've never seen a yellow one. Same with the pressflos. Any info or pics to contrary would be very helpful. The original APCM Presflo's were yellow but I believe that it was short lived! Airfix did not make it up when they moulded the kit in Yellow! The Cemflo's were delivered in unpainted Aluminium as is shown in the Manufacturers adverts! Mark Saunders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted October 8, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 8, 2015 I think the Hornby one is supposed to be a Cemflo. It has Blue Circle decals and is bright yellow. I think earlier versions were grey. It is a tanker not a presflo ( spelling noted). It certainly appears in the 73 catalogue as bright yellow behind a Black 9f . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 I think the Hornby one is supposed to be a Cemflo. It has Blue Circle decals and is bright yellow. I think earlier versions were grey. It is a tanker not a presflo ( spelling noted). It certainly appears in the 73 catalogue as bright yellow behind a Black 9f . The Triang/Hornby model is a Cemflo but it is a compromise to use an existing chassis and as such is short and too wide where it fits over the existing chassis, shame it captures the shape quite well; how about an accurate one in rtr! Mark Saunders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garethp8873 Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Had a message this morning to say the latest three PO wagons have arrived. Now comes the part where I have to part with money in order to get them sent off to me...!! Ah well at least a Bachmann SR PLV van is coming with them...!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
amdaley Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Model Railways Direct have the Oxford wagons at £6.49 each. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 The Triang/Hornby model is a Cemflo but it is a compromise to use an existing chassis and as such is short and too wide where it fits over the existing chassis, shame it captures the shape quite well; how about an accurate one in rtr! Mark Saunders It's possible that there may have been a 'one-off' painted yellow for a press launch, and that Hornby decided this would be a good idea to copy. They quite often made eclectic decisions about what livery to replicate, and even which prototype to model (the 'Vanwide' they brought out in the late 1960s being a case in point). The 'Cemflo' used the same technology as the Prestwin and Presflo to unload its cargo, but in a differently-shaped body; it was no more or less a tanker than they were. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Rowsley17D Posted October 26, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 26, 2015 Posted 23 October 2015 - 12:42 Model Railways Direct have the Oxford wagons at £6.49 each. Regards. At that price cheaper than buying and building kits. Get a few and paint them and use POWsides transfers to get the wagons you want. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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