Steamysandy Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 There are a couple of things which are worth mentioning.Sercos franchise for the ferries is due for retendering in the near future. However the connections to the ferries are extremely poor if you don't have a car.In particular the bus service is only one bus direct to Scrabster harbour and Stagecoach seem to suit themselves how it's run. I've a friend in Stromness who has family near Inverness and the last twice she's been down to see them,she had a most unpleasant experience going south even though she had booked a seat.She returned to Thurso on the Train. Incidentally there are more trains between Thurso and Inverness than buses( 4 trains daily as opposed to 2 buses,the schedule for which has them both leaving Inverness between noon and 3 pm!) Certainly from the Central belt an overnight train has advantages in that a connection to the morning Ferry would be provided Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 Tourist traffic generates a lot of income and shouldn't be underestimated - especially down the East Coast. When I worked for GNER they went a great lengths to explain that a very high proportion of the company revenue was not from business passengers (it's a lot cheaper to fly from London to Edinburgh never mind North of Inverness) but from tourist traffic. These days if the service is available and the cost is reasonable folk will still use the railways... Whereas WCML in the week is much more business orientated, maybe goes a long way to explaining why they keep handing back the keys on the East Coast. If there was a tourist sleeper service between Edinburgh and the far north then perhaps the ECML services could tap into or benefit from that market. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerr Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 50,000 passengers per year in its last year of operation...This is an average of 80 passengers per train, that seems a bit high The service was revised north of Carlisle : Carlisle - Edinburgh - Glasgow This removed the join / split at Carstairs, and would most likely continue if reinstated From memory the Euston services / formations change If such a service was to be reinstated then it would most likely serve Glasgow or Edinburgh only This could then use SLE-SLEP-SLE-SLEP-RLO-BUO Equally, it would most likely use the same locomotive throughout (initially diesel under wires) If other services were to be introduced the formation would have to be similar, to justify the costs Internal Scotland sleepers were possible during loco haulage, but this is almost impossible now Agreed, a Thurso sleeper would serve some passengers, but under the franchise agreement would have to serve a destination outside of Scotland One option would be Newcastle or York (allowing passengers to connect between the day services) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted January 20, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 20, 2018 I think you'd need an awful lot more than a sleeper to make a noticeable difference to ECML demand. My understanding is that the issues with the ECML are not because of poor patronage but the overly optimistic franchise bid. Combined with delays in route upgrades in the case of Virgin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted January 20, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 20, 2018 I can see that a sleeper service from Bristol to Scotland might be viable, but I can't see it working from much further west. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomboid Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 Depends when it runs and where it stops. It would have to stop at Bristol, but spending the evening getting there from Plymouth might not have a hugely adverse impact on the economics of running it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark_A Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 This is an average of 80 passengers per train, that seems a bit high. This is an average of 80 passengers per train, that seems a bit high Agreed that it sounds high, but that was the figure I heard quoted by the rail industry - 50,000 a year and numbers neither declining nor increasing. Visually, the train was and remained sized to carry those numbers too, seated accommodation as well as berths - with many more carriages than say the present day Fort William sleeper. Anecdote not data, but it was busy both times I used it. I wish I could find a reference for the figure but it may be that the passenger records from that era have long gone in the bin. (Another anecdote, someone from work used it northbound from Bristol but hadn't long gone to bed when they were roused from sleep at Cheltenham and told that they needed to change carriages because theirs had developed a fault that meant that it needed to be removed from the train, a task that wasn't quite straightforward and caused a lot of sucking of teeth and a bit of a delay.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 21, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 21, 2018 I can see that a sleeper service from Bristol to Scotland might be viable, but I can't see it working from much further west. It wasn't in the past! Which was why it was eventually taken off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted January 21, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 21, 2018 It wasn't in the past! Which was why it was eventually taken off. I thought its demise had more to do with (i) A general dislike of all sleeper services by the DfT due to the subsidy levels they required and (ii) The difficulty in finding a suitable 'home' for it under Privatisation. It took an awful lot of lobbying for Whitehall to agree to keep the Scottish services and in more recent times there was a seemingly concerted effort to try and ditch the Cornish sleeper from the Great Western franchise (now thankfully reversed) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 I thought its demise had more to do with (i) A general dislike of all sleeper services by the DfT due to the subsidy levels they required and (ii) The difficulty in finding a suitable 'home' for it under Privatisation. It took an awful lot of lobbying for Whitehall to agree to keep the Scottish services and in more recent times there was a seemingly concerted effort to try and ditch the Cornish sleeper from the Great Western franchise (now thankfully reversed) It goes with the temporary withdrawal of the East Coast sleepers for the Electrification work and their subsequent non appearance! Mark Saunders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DY444 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 That's fair enough. I wasn't expecting loco hauled stock to have only EP brakes, and that being the case, it is the first UK hauled rolling stock I am aware of that doesn't have conventional Westinghouse brake equipment. Lots of EMUs though, although up to and including the 455s, the EP brake was superimposed on top of conventional Westinghouse brakes. Jim The 455s have Westcode brakes. The only BR built emus from the 313s onwards that had westinghouse/ep were the 312s and 442s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Covkid Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) AutoSave_mk 5 coahc.png If you plan to offer an RTR mk5 coach, speak now or forever hold your peace It has taken an evening and a half to get this far and while obviously not complete, I think I have finalised the shape. I have based all the minimum printing dimensions for a print in 4mm. Only having 2 good quality photos of this coach to work from, its not easy to scratchbuild an entirely new coach. Hopefully the details will get easier as more photos start to appear. If there are any major flaws so far, plase let me know. Sorry if its a bit O/T (not prototype), but the knowledge on here should improve the model. Cal n - that is pretty good work from the paucity of information so far. Way outside my modelling period so I wouldn't be interested but I am really impressed. I suspect you need to hang on until photos become available - first rake of five vehicles at Polmadie I believe. Are they intended to stay as fives ? In my view you will have just as a "market" for the TPE Mk5as as these but fantastic concept. Edited January 22, 2018 by Covkid Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cal.n Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) Cal n - that is pretty good work from the paucity of information so far. Way outside my modelling period so I wouldn't be interested but I am really impressed. I suspect you need to hang on until photos become available - first rake of five vehicles at Polmadie I believe. Are they intended to stay as fives ? In my view you will have just as a "market" for the TPE Mk5as as these but fantastic concept. Thanks, I have a thread for it here. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/130381-caf-mark-5-coach-in-4mm-scratchbuild/&do=findComment&comment=3011933 I am fairly confident with the body shape but some of the windows are different on different sides of the coach so I really need more photos before I can do the Sleeper (berth and pod) coaches. Re the coach sets, I remember reading the Fort William leg will have 4 coaches and both the Aberdeen and Inverness legs will have 6 coaches each. Edited January 22, 2018 by cal.n Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted January 22, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 22, 2018 Re the coach sets, I remember reading the Fort William leg will have 4 coaches and both the Aberdeen and Inverness legs will have 6 coaches each. I think that's the same as current? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cal.n Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 I think so. In summer months, they sometimes put on an extra seated coach in Fort William or Aberdeen leg when it can be filled. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejstubbs Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 I'm sure I read in the extended discussion in the Cally Sleeper here that they switch one coach from Aberdeen to Fort William in the summer. (More tourists needed to feed the midgies I expect.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerr Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 I think so. In summer months, they sometimes put on an extra seated coach in Fort William or Aberdeen leg when it can be filled.I know they amend the Aberdeen / Fort William formations, but that is a sleeper I have never seen the Edinburgh - Fort William with two BUO The spare is moved by road instead of along with the Inverness portion Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerr Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Re the coach sets, I remember reading the Fort William leg will have 4 coaches and both the Aberdeen and Inverness legs will have 6 coaches each.When the new coaches fully enter service the routes are also going to be revised The Fort William will join / split with the Glasgow service Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ColinK Posted January 22, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 22, 2018 Wonder if there will be a farewell Mk3 sleeper railtour? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cal.n Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 More coaches leaving CAF at Irun today. https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6361251864498966528/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cal.n Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 A bit OT, but will 68s be retro fitted with Dellners for TPE services ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted January 24, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 24, 2018 A bit OT, but will 68s be retro fitted with Dellners for TPE services ? Apparently no the pictures Ive seen of the driving trailer it has conventional draw gear Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steadfast Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 I'm sure I've read somewhere that the TPE stock will have screw coupling at the loco ends and either bar or Dellner between vehicles, as the sets will be semi permanent like the Chiltern ones, rather than remarshaled during each journey like the sleeper does. Jo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted January 24, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 24, 2018 Wonder if there will be a farewell Mk3 sleeper railtour? The MK3 sleeper will still be in use down to the Westcountry for a while yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cal.n Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 https://t.co/tySdxpRG8M Photos of them hooked up to 73/9s and 92s with Dellners Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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