CAF to build new LHCS for Caledonian Sleeper

[adb968008]

Theres a spare fleet of 37/4s available too, or maybe a job for class 88’s.

But going up there top and tail has more merit than a DVT.

 

I was once up there in 1987..

Failed at Wick, luckily there was a loco at Georgemas, otherwise, i distinctly remember the guard saying, it could be a 6 hour wait for a loco to trip up from Inverness.

 

Using the Top/Tail has other possibilities too..

They could split the train at Georgemas and go opposite ways to Wick and Thurso, run around and reverse. At Georgemas they can combine back up, like they used too.

 

You would need servicing facilities up there, presumably at Georgemas, otherwise theres an 8 hour round trip ECS mileage daily, or swapping stock every day with Inverness, which means an extra spare rake.

 

I cant see this economically stacking up, however as a Pork Barrel operation from some Scottish government slush fund anything is possible.

Edited January 25, 2019 by adb968008

[newbryford]

Theres a spare fleet of 37/4s available too, or maybe a job for class 88’s.

But going up there top and tail has more merit than a DVT.

 

I was once up there in 1987..

Failed at Wick, luckily there was a loco at Georgemas, otherwise, i distinctly remember the guard saying, it could be a 6 hour wait for a loco to trip up from Inverness.

 

Using the Top/Tail has other possibilities too..

They could split the train at Georgemas and go opposite ways to Wick and Thurso, run around and reverse. At Georgemas they can combine back up, like they used too.

 

You would need servicing facilities up there, presumably at Georgemas, otherwise theres an 8 hour round trip ECS mileage daily, or swapping stock every day with Inverness.

 

I cant see this economically stacking up, however as a Pork Barrel operation from some Scottish government slush fund anything is possible.

 

Awaits the announcement on April 1st...............................

[Ron Ron Ron]

Were crayons on special offer at Aldi this week?

 

 

 

.

[Bob Reid]

they were nothing but the best crayon's I'll have you know

 

http://webershandwickdesign.com/portfolio/caledonian-sleeper-branding/

 

Courtesy of Weber Shandwick....

[jim.snowdon]

That’s because LHCS is the railway technical terminology for coaching stock. Carriages, Cars etc is a generic slang term used by the travelling public and a lot of railway staff. I got a major b******ing by the instructor when I was training as a driver for calling coaching stock “carriages”.

And then, for as long as I can remember, they have been referred to as Sleeping Cars. Along with Buffet Cars, Restaurant Cars, Kitchen Cars, but not First class carriages, or Passenger Brake Vans. All designed to confuse.

 

Jim

[eastwestdivide]

According to wnxx.com, the first of the Mk III sleepers have been sent to Booth’s for scrapping. Some of them not long out of service.

There's at least 4 Caledonian Sleeper Mk3s visible from the alley that goes down the middle of Booths past the old football ground, or at least there were earlier on today. Looking pretty much intact at the moment from what I could see, although one had some paint markings daubed on beside the bogies "ERS BOGIES" whatever that means.

[black and decker boy]

ERS are a company that own LHCS and lease them out. They currently provide several mk2s to Caledonian Sleeper.

 

This would suggest they have an interest in acquiring MK3s as well

[nightstar.train]

ERS are a company that own LHCS and lease them out. They currently provide several mk2s to Caledonian Sleeper.

This would suggest they have an interest in acquiring MK3s as well

Sounds like they want the bogies. Presumably these bogies are a lot lower mileage than under other Mk3 vehicles as they only do 4-600 miles a night, and have at least one night off a week. So they might well be worth swapping under HSTs that are being kept.

[Bomag]

Sounds like they want the bogies. Presumably these bogies are a lot lower mileage than under other Mk3 vehicles as they only do 4-600 miles a night, and have at least one night off a week. So they might well be worth swapping under HSTs that are being kept.

 

125mph rated BT10s have detail differences from lower rated BT10 rated up to 110mph. Don't ask me what the differences are, I don't know.

[nightstar.train]

125mph rated BT10s have detail differences from lower rated BT10 rated up to 110mph. Don't ask me what the differences are, I don't know.

Right, interesting. But if the shorty HSTs for Scotrail and GWR are now never going to run at 125mph, would they use lower rated bogies and put a speed limit on them?

[87023Velocity]

IIRC, regards the bogie differences (not including WSP), the main difference was/is the primary springs, Mk3 Kitchen Cars, Mk3 Sleeper vehicles and Mk3 opens did/have different primary springs (same for HST stock), of course you could replace the primary springs. I seem to remember MK3 open LHCS had yellow springs and Kitchen cars had Green Springs as a couple of examples.

 

Sleeper trains are run at a lower speed but thats just for passenger comfort I understood not actual bogie design as Mk3 sleepers were used quite abit during the class 91 testing with the HST DVTs. There are other bogie differences aswell long and short swing links but now going off topic.

 

Cheers

 

Simon

['CHARD]

ERS - Mk2s - Eversholt Rail, surely?

[DavidB-AU]

Sleeper trains are run at a lower speed but thats just for passenger comfort I understood not actual bogie design

IIRC the Caledonian Sleeper is scheduled for 70mph but is authorised for 100mph if running behind schedule.

 

Cheers

David

[Mark Saunders]

125mph rated BT10s have detail differences from lower rated BT10 rated up to 110mph. Don't ask me what the differences are, I don't know.

 

It could be the same as a Mk l BG to run at 110 rather than 100 only the maintenance interval varied.

[black and decker boy]

ERS - Mk2s - Eversholt Rail, surely?

No ‘S’ in Eversholt Rail Limited, some day coaches are hired from ERS as in Eastern Rail Services

 

For ERS see http://www.easternrailservices.co.uk

 

Could be anyone in reality, I’m just guessing it’s Eastern Rail Services based on their current connection with Caley Sleeper.

[TravisM]

IIRC the Caledonian Sleeper is scheduled for 70mph but is authorised for 100mph if running behind schedule.CheersDavid

Not with a Class 92 as their limited to 87mph (140kph)

['CHARD]

No ‘S’ in Eversholt Rail Limited, some day coaches are hired from ERS as in Eastern Rail Services

 

For ERS see http://www.easternrailservices.co.uk

 

Could be anyone in reality, I’m just guessing it’s Eastern Rail Services based on their current connection with Caley Sleeper.

 

Crikey! Never heard of this outfit - well, they say every day's a school day!  Cheers!

[frobisher]

But I guess the sleeper could go to wick, it’s whichever is handier for the ferries really.

Not Wick basically if you're a foot passenger.

 

One way in which I could see the internal sleeper working is if it was motorail. It’s an awfully long drive up to Wick/Thurso, over not brilliant roads. If they could price it similar to the cost of fuel up to there plus an hotel in Inverness, say £150 or £200 for a family of four, i expect it’d be busy. I’ve no idea if that’d be a viable business case, how much does it cost to run a train?

A motorail style service would probably be better terminated at Georgemas as there's probably most room there to put in car handling facilities.

[298]

One way in which I could see the internal sleeper working is if it was motorail. It’s an awfully long drive up to Wick/Thurso, over not brilliant roads. If they could price it similar to the cost of fuel up to there plus an hotel in Inverness, say £150 or £200 for a family of four, i expect it’d be busy. I’ve no idea if that’d be a viable business case, how much does it cost to run a train?

The standard franchises don't like and can't cope with seasonal traffic, and it'd be too costly for a charter operator to invest in Motorail facilities for a few trips every year to tie in with the school holidays. One progression might be more/cheaper land cruise rail tours like the Royal Scotsman, but these command premium ticket prices because they are expensive to run.

 

As my Grandad used to say, "If that was such a brilliant idea, then somebody would be doing it already"....

['CHARD]

The standard franchises don't like and can't cope with seasonal traffic, and it'd be too costly for a charter operator to invest in Motorail facilities for a few trips every year to tie in with the school holidays. One progression might be more/cheaper land cruise rail tours like the Royal Scotsman, but these command premium ticket prices because they are expensive to run.

 

As my Grandad used to say, "If that was such a brilliant idea, then somebody would be doing it already"....

 

You're right; it's simply far too marginal for anyone with sufficient collateral to take on.  The only way would be via the public sector, and there's no appetite for this activity there.

[DavidB-AU]

Not with a Class 92 as their limited to 87mph (140kph)

It still gets to 100mph sometimes when 90s appear (90048 did earlier this month) and especially when 87002 gets a run.

 

 

Cheers

David

[Davexoc]

The standard franchises don't like and can't cope with seasonal traffic, and it'd be too costly for a charter operator to invest in Motorail facilities for a few trips every year to tie in with the school holidays. One progression might be more/cheaper land cruise rail tours like the Royal Scotsman, but these command premium ticket prices because they are expensive to run.

 

As my Grandad used to say, "If that was such a brilliant idea, then somebody would be doing it already"....

Has anybody thought that as we switch to EVs, Motorail could offer a service where your vehicle is charged en-route?

Would work great as most people probably don't want to pay premium prices for a Costa every 100 or so miles.

Oh, but the motor industry is just like everything other and hasn't come up with a standard charging system/protocol.......

 

Dave

[dibber25]

That’s because LHCS is the railway technical terminology for coaching stock. Carriages, Cars etc is a generic slang term used by the travelling public and a lot of railway staff. I got a major b******ing by the instructor when I was training as a driver for calling coaching stock “carriages”.

 

I'm inclined to think that George Stephenson would have called them 'carriages'! 'Carriages' is certainly not generic nor slang - far from it. A 'railway carriage' is a term established from the very dawn of railways when they were precisely that - carriages similar to those pulled by a horse. 'Cars' was a term most recently used to describe multiple-unit vehicles, as in 'two-car unit'. It is also, of course, a North American term  where all rolling stock is either a passenger 'car' or a freight car. LHCS, on the other hand is a modern term, probably no more than ten years old and one of those terms which, in journalism, would still require to be written full out before the initials  were used on their own. (CJL)

[Bob Reid]

Maybe 10 years in model railway magazine terms Chris but Loco Hauled Coaching Stock went way back further than that on B.R. - certainly at least 40 years from my memory - and of course used on the railway alongside the considerably older "Carriage" (think Working Diagrams) and the shortened version "Coaching Stock" which covers both LHCS & NPCCS.,

[Zomboid]

Carriage working notices cover (or covered in about 2004 when I used them) multiple units. The SWT ones I used featured no LHCS at all...

 

It wouldn't surprise me if "car" is just a contraction of carriage.