Pragmatic Pre-Grouping - Mikkel's Workbench

[Regularity]

Late 20s?

[kitpw]

2 hours ago, Mikkel said:

your experience with the former must be handy when lining coaches!

...sadly not.  My attempts at lining have been hopeless! 

 

But "Leroy" was here....

Graffiti on the walls of the Roman amphitheatre at El Djem, Tunisia - photo taken in July 2007.

Edited July 27, 2022 by kitpw

[billbedford]

11 hours ago, MikeOxon said:

It's all those support structures that put me off resin printers.

 

Depending on the resin used, the supports can be made to just break off. 

 

2 hours ago, Mikkel said:

Does each support structure have to be added by the designer? Goodness, I thought the software worked that out. What a job that must be.

 

Most software tend to be conservative when placing supports, by placing the by hand the supports points can be made finer and sparser with the aim of making them easier to remove. Though the learning curve for this process can be , err, extended. 

[Craigw]

1 hour ago, Regularity said:

Late 20s?

 

Coaches on the 3rd platform in unlined brown and cream, other stock mostly in lined and the loco having a low vacuum hose I think late 20's is right

 

Craig W

[Miss Prism]

The Collett rake in Platform 3 is lined. Looks to be in 1922-4 livery.

[Regularity]

When was the earliest of those coaches introduced, and how long would they have survived in service before repainting?

 

Also, the loco has a number of the buffer plank that looks a bit like it could be 5518, so 1927+ ?

 

We can’t definitively say how late the photo is, perhaps, but we should be able to manage a “no earlier than” date.

 

(Also, all coaches are in a two-colour livery, so probably second half of the 20s.)

[Bluemonkey presents....]

Very interested in your experiments and developments with the lining pen as I am tempt with a crimson lake livery bullion which was fully lined.

 

Lovely figures very neatly painted almost porcelain in appearance.

[mswjr]

lining a 4mm gresley coach part 2 - YouTube

 

Have a look at this it is very good and may help.

[Siberian Snooper]

3 hours ago, Regularity said:

When was the earliest of those coaches introduced, and how long would they have survived in service before repainting?

 

Also, the loco has a number of the buffer plank that looks a bit like it could be 5518, so 1927+ ?

 

We can’t definitively say how late the photo is, perhaps, but we should be able to manage a “no earlier than” date.

 

(Also, all coaches are in a two-colour livery, so probably second half of the 20s.)

 

Mainline stock would be around every 7 years, lesser stock may be more.

 

[37Oban]

11 hours ago, Regularity said:

Late 20s?

There's a statue of a "Tommy" on a plinth on the right.

[Penrhos1920]

14 hours ago, Mikkel said:

 

Yes good point, the aim was to do one of those "mixed bag" trains typical of the GWR.

 

Source: Getty Images, embedding permitted. No date.

!

 

 

Are you referring to the mixed bag train in platform 5?  There’s something with a very flat roof.  It appears to be have been absorbed into GWR stock, so I’d say the photo is post 1923.

[MikeOxon]

14 hours ago, Mikkel said:

 

Yes good point, the aim was to do one of those "mixed bag" trains typical of the GWR.

 

Source: Getty Images, embedding permitted. No date.

 

I suppose I'm being corrupted by man's eternal quest for order and neatness. Same internal struggle is involved in biodiversity-friendly gardening! 

 

I suspect the photo is later than others have suggested, since it is credited to Paul Popper/Popperfoto, which was only founded in 1934. {DELETE- The approaching engine looks to be 55xx class, which certainly places it later than 1927- further info. below)

Edited July 27, 2022 by MikeOxon
correction

[Miss Prism]

24 minutes ago, MikeOxon said:

The approaching engine looks to be 55xx class, which certainly places it later than 1927

 

Square-drop frame front without struts. It's a big county tank.

 

 

[MikeOxon]

1 minute ago, Miss Prism said:

 

Square-drop frame front without struts. It's a big county tank.

 

 

whoops! following Regularity's post, I also thought I could see 55 on the buffer beam!

[Miss Prism]

Possibly 2215?

[Regularity]

8 minutes ago, MikeOxon said:

whoops! following Regularity's post, I also thought I could see 55 on the buffer beam!

 

12 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

 

Square-drop frame front without struts. It's a big county tank.

 

 

I thought it didn’t look like a prairie. 

[Chas Levin]

Hello Mikkel, re. the thickness of the lining lines, I haven't tried one of these pens but I've been learning to use a ruling pen (aka bow pen) over the course of the last year and the speed you move it at definitely has a considerable effect on line width and is the easiest way to control it (please excuse me if you know this already - I know you've been at this rather longer than I have!).

 

I'm not sure about the best paint viscosity for the pen you're using either, but in the case of ruling pens, thinning the paint is often considered as the wrong way to go because it leads to too free a flow, too wide lines and lack of control of them. Problems with thickness and consistency that people using ruling pens try to solve by thinning the paint are usually better solved by honing the pen's blades to be more evenly matched and more accuraately parabolic, so that they make proper contact, together, with the surface: do you have any adjustments possible with this pen, any type of honing of the contact surface(s) in that way?

[Mikkel]

12 hours ago, mswjr said:

lining a 4mm gresley coach part 2 - YouTube

 

Have a look at this it is very good and may help.

 

Thanks for that, good stuff. Interesting to see how Mike is moving the pen at 1:17, i.e. going back over the area he just covered. I can't imagine I'd be able to do that with an Easiliner - but that may just be down to my very limited experience of course. 

 

 

 

8 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

Hello Mikkel, re. the thickness of the lining lines, I haven't tried one of these pens but I've been learning to use a ruling pen (aka bow pen) over the course of the last year and the speed you move it at definitely has a considerable effect on line width and is the easiest way to control it (please excuse me if you know this already - I know you've been at this rather longer than I have!).

 

I'm not sure about the best paint viscosity for the pen you're using either, but in the case of ruling pens, thinning the paint is often considered as the wrong way to go because it leads to too free a flow, too wide lines and lack of control of them. Problems with thickness and consistency that people using ruling pens try to solve by thinning the paint are usually better solved by honing the pen's blades to be more evenly matched and more accuraately parabolic, so that they make proper contact, together, with the surface: do you have any adjustments possible with this pen, any type of honing of the contact surface(s) in that way?

 

Many thanks for this Chas, very informative. Using the Vallejo paints direct from the bottle without thinning hasnt worked well so far (clogs up the pen), but will try again. A potential problem here could be that you don't know how long a bottle has been sitting on the shop shelves, and therefore what works with one bottle might not work with the next.

 

I'm afraid there is no blade to hone. Here is a close-up of a nib (less reservoir) also showing method of cleaning (it cleans easily enough and there are dedicated cleaning wires in case it clogs up).

 

 

[Paul Cram]

When I bought a similar pen the advice was to thin the paint (enamal) with lighter fluid.

[Mikkel]

Thanks Paul, yes the instructions says the pen was designed for Humbrol enamles. I'm using Vallejo acrylics, but had heard that they worked OK in the pen.

 

10 hours ago, Penrhos1920 said:

 

Are you referring to the mixed bag train in platform 5?  There’s something with a very flat roof.  It appears to be have been absorbed into GWR stock, so I’d say the photo is post 1923.

 

I hadn't spotted the coach in platform 5, interesting. But I was just referring to the train in platform 2 as an illustration of different coach styles, rooves etc. I've always liked that sort of mix.

 

Pembroke & Tenby line. Embedded from: https://www.pembrokeandmonktonhistory.org.uk/VictorianPembroke.html

 

Lustleigh, caption says 1912.  Source: Wikipedia Commons

 

[ChrisN]

Am I allowed to set another hare running?

 

What is a local passenger train doing sitting in Platform 1?  I assume it is that as it is so short.  When I have used Paddington, admittedly my first time was only as far back as the 1960s, platform 1 was used for expresses to the West Country.  (I suppose that there are only so many West Country Expresses.)

 

Also, if I remember correctly, it was platform 17 that had the direct semi-fast trains to Farthing.  They may have been a later addition after the Edwardian era.

[kitpw]

This is one of several makes of acrylic inks.  I've used them for lettering freehand with a "dip pen" - you know, the old schoolroom things with a steel nib.  With a pen, I've found they work better than stuff which is called "paint" - the inks seem to flow more easily from a pen nib without any thinning.  I use the Schminke colours although I haven't tried the yellow gold colour. Golden "high flow" acrylic ink might also be worth a try.

 

[kitpw]

On 27/07/2022 at 07:04, Mikkel said:

those "mixed bag" trains typical of the GWR.

I think the same image appears here (cropped) - https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/static/Transport.jsp  (scroll down a bit).  It's credited "Paddington Station, from St John Abcock, Wonderful London (1926/7), vol.II, p.523."

[Siberian Snooper]

4 hours ago, ChrisN said:

Am I allowed to set another hare running?

 

What is a local passenger train doing sitting in Platform 1?  I assume it is that as it is so short.  When I have used Paddington, admittedly my first time was only as far back as the 1960s, platform 1 was used for expresses to the West Country.  (I suppose that there are only so many West Country Expresses.)

 

Also, if I remember correctly, it was platform 17 that had the direct semi-fast trains to Farthing.  They may have been a later addition after the Edwardian era.

 

 

There was at least one Bristol Express, that ran via Devizes, that comprised of 4 or 5 coaches. The train was Star or Castle hauled.

 

 

[Donw]

I am sure Alan Brackenborough  thins the paint for lining it was some years ago when I discussed it with him so I cannot recall quite the description he used . He also does the straight lines first then adds the corners.

 

He uses a bow pen he did say about dressing the tips with a stone as per chisels etc.  He also said having produced a very sharp tip he would just round the edge  a fraction to avoid scratching the paint. Practice first before touching your pride and joy new loco.

 

As for Paddington I notice it is 5:20  so even in those days I assume it would be a commuter train. Mid 60s I used to get a train home around that time usually a semifast first stop Reading sometimes in platform one. Certainly that was a fairly busy time of day

 

Don