Collett 'Bow Ended' Standard 57' Corridor Stock Coaches for 2016

[9402 Fredrick]

Just pre-ordered the 5 gwr livered ones and the Bristolian train pack, this will probably make a really good passenger train for my layout.

[Darwinian]

Given that I'm trying to represent GWR south wales valleys circa 1929, would a 1929 liveried coach be likely to turn up on an excursion / special working or would they have been allocated to mainline formations first?

 

If the latter, would an earlier livery be more appropriate. I really like the original full mock panel livery and they may have survived until '29 (?), although one of the earlier Brown and Cream liveries would just need adjustment to the waist lining ( is that correct?).

 

They do look to be really nice models.

[coachmann]

Given that I'm trying to represent GWR south wales valleys circa 1929, would a 1929 liveried coach be likely to turn up on an excursion / special working or would they have been allocated to mainline formations first?

 

If the latter, would an earlier livery be more appropriate. I really like the original full mock panel livery and they may have survived until '29 (?), although one of the earlier Brown and Cream liveries would just need adjustment to the waist lining ( is that correct?).

 

They do look to be really nice models.

A mock panelled coach would "survive" until 1929 seeing as the panelled livery was the standard GWR livery until 1928. Coaches were not repainted overnight because of a livery change and any coach built and painted in 1927 would be expected to last in that livery for at least five years. The GWR built a great many of these coaches, far too many for their top expresses, and so they would be seen all over the system on trains were corridor coaches were used. The GWR was quite indiscriminate and 'dropped' its brandnew designs into trains wherever they were needed, hence their hotch-potch appearance in the 1930s with varying waistline heights etc.

[The Stationmaster]

Given that I'm trying to represent GWR south wales valleys circa 1929, would a 1929 liveried coach be likely to turn up on an excursion / special working or would they have been allocated to mainline formations first?

 

If the latter, would an earlier livery be more appropriate. I really like the original full mock panel livery and they may have survived until '29 (?), although one of the earlier Brown and Cream liveries would just need adjustment to the waist lining ( is that correct?).

 

They do look to be really nice models.

The bigger question is whether or not the stock was cleared for the Valleys as a lot of 'mainline' GWR gangwayed stock wasn't.  However having said that 57ft stock was generally allowed over many more routes than longer vehicles even in GWR days while many of the earlier restrictions were removed completely in BR times.

[Ian Hargrave]

The bigger question is whether or not the stock was cleared for the Valleys as a lot of 'mainline' GWR gangwayed stock wasn't. However having said that 57ft stock was generally allowed over many more routes than longer vehicles even in GWR days while many of the earlier restrictions were removed completely in BR times.

The answer to that is yes. Please remember that a great many excursion trains ran from the valleys to a variety of destinations. There were Sunday School trips,excursions to Barry Island,RAF St. Athan ...aka Gileston...via Wenvoe,for example. This once besported a slip coach! Then there were massed school excursions.No motorways then,remember. One sticks in my memory. That was one from Aberdare Low Level to Windsor in July 1953.,the year of the Coronation and also the year I passed my 11+. Our Junior School joined en masse at Aberaman. It was halued by a pair of 56XX as far as Bassaleg Junction via the Ponty viaduct etc. There Hall 4969 "Shugborough Hall" completed the return journey .I remember a river trip to Chertsey being included. The excursion stock included the usual GW "ragbag" and that means Colletts. Don't forget the Vale Of Neath line too. Edited December 6, 2015 by Ian Hargrave

[The Fatadder]

Just pre-ordered the 5 gwr livered ones and the Bristolian train pack, this will probably make a really good passenger train for my layout.

Thanks for mentioning that, I had completely missed this pack in Hornbys 2016 plans, and looking at Hattons price it's a good discount on the price of its parts! Not to mention some Shirt Button coaches ought to to be a good fit for a post war layout (at least a lot more suitable then GWR over crest...)

 

Now to make a decision as to whether or not in happy with the Hornby King

[gwrrob]

Thanks for mentioning that, I had completely missed this pack in Hornbys 2016 plans, and looking at Hattons price it's a good discount on the price of its parts! Not to mention some Shirt Button coaches ought to to be a good fit for a post war layout (at least a lot more suitable then GWR over crest...)

Now to make a decision as to whether or not in happy with the Hornby King

Where did you see the mention of shirtbutton coaches Rich . Here's hoping for the splitting of packs by dealers.

[Welchester]

There Hall 4937 "Shugborough Hall" completed the return journey .

 

The name and number don't match.

 

 

(Edited for clarity)

Edited December 6, 2015 by Bishop of Welchester

[The Fatadder]

Could be talking rubbish, but Hattons description describes the King as shirt button and the coaches as chocolate and cream, and Hornby train packs typical match the loco and coaches

[Ian Hargrave]

The name and number don't match.

 

 

(Edited for clarity)

The name and number don't match.

 

 So they don't 4937 was Lanelay Hall ...senior moment.Oh dear.OK,then,try 4969 ? Anyway,it certainly was Shugborough Hall on the buffers at Windsor.

(Edited for clarity)

[Neal Ball]

Where did you see the mention of shirtbutton coaches Rich . Here's hoping for the splitting of packs by dealers.

 

The Bristolian train pack is described as Shirtbutton..... Odd that the release date is April, yet the carriages are shown as a January release....

 

Maybe that means 1930 shirt button livery on general release in April :-)

[gwrrob]

I'm sure the stand at Warley had the coaches down for a July release on the ticket and I think the first release will be like in my photos.However shirtbutton would be possible in the Bristolian pack.The usual Hornby ambiguity.

[Darwinian]

Thanks for the responses Coachmann, Stationmaster and Ian,

 

I hoped these new coaches woud be suitable, I know I should have a lot more coaches in the 1922-28 full panelled livery but I'm not up to coachmans skill level doing lining yet. At least it isn't beyod the realms of possiblity to have a couple of newly outshopped ones on a Rugby excursion (or similar excuse). It was the variety of excursions that drew me towards a valleys themed layout and I had assumed any stock available would be used but was unsure if this was actually the case.

 

Many thanks.

 

As it would be unlikely to see a whole train of Colletts on excursion duty which would be the most likely to appear, All thirds?

[Ian Hargrave]

 

The name and number don't match.

 

 

(Edited for clarity)

The name and number don't match.

 

 So they don't 4937 was Lanelay Hall ...senior moment.Oh dear.OK,then,try 4969 ? Anyway,it certainly was Shugborough Hall on the buffers at Windsor.

(Edited for clarity)

Now edited for correct number.

[olivegreen]

A mock panelled coach would "survive" until 1929 seeing as the panelled livery was the standard GWR livery until 1928. Coaches were not repainted overnight because of a livery change and any coach built and painted in 1927 would be expected to last in that livery for at least five years. The GWR built a great many of these coaches, far too many for their top expresses, and so they would be seen all over the system on trains were corridor coaches were used. The GWR was quite indiscriminate and 'dropped' its brandnew designs into trains wherever they were needed, hence their hotch-potch appearance in the 1930s with varying waistline heights etc.

In investigating this very point for inter-company shared services (Portsmouth to Cardiff, for example) I was fortunate recently to find in an Oxfam shop Vol 2 of 'The Great Western Railway in the 1930s' (Runpast Publishing, a 1997 reprint of a 1987 edition): it is a wonderful collection of very clear photos, many of which show the very hotchpotch-ness to which Coachmann refers and, of course, the Collett stock. I can only suppose that Vol 1 is of equal quality. Those in the GWR know probably have it - otherwise it is worth seeking out in a library.

 

(Edited for spoeling mistaks)

Edited December 6, 2015 by olivegreen

[9402 Fredrick]

I'm sure the stand at Warley had the coaches down for a July release on the ticket and I think the first release will be like in my photos.However shirtbutton would be possible in the Bristolian pack.The usual Hornby ambiguity.

End of January on the Hornby website now actually.

[Ian Hargrave]

Thanks for the responses Coachmann, Stationmaster and Ian,

 

I hoped these new coaches woud be suitable, I know I should have a lot more coaches in the 1922-28 full panelled livery but I'm not up to coachmans skill level doing lining yet. At least it isn't beyod the realms of possiblity to have a couple of newly outshopped ones on a Rugby excursion (or similar excuse). It was the variety of excursions that drew me towards a valleys themed layout and I had assumed any stock available would be used but was unsure if this was actually the case.

 

Many thanks.

 

As it would be unlikely to see a whole train of Colletts on excursion duty which would be the most likely to appear, All thirds?

Yes,but complicating matters would be that you would frequently see the sign "for the use of 2nd/3rd Class Passéngers" stuck on compartment windows of nominal 1st Class stock. WR stock post war until the mid 50's was very much a mixed bag.Uniformity was partial achieved with the construction of sufficient Mark 1 BR design by 1956 and the reintroduction of choc.& cream on titled trains,to be followed by a relapse into train formations of varying colours with the reign of the infamous General Manager Raymond in 1961/2

Into the mix went the general BR colour maroon in place of crimson&cream also mid 50's.Remember the song "Anything Goes" ?

[Fat Controller]

Yes,but complicating matters would be that you would frequently see the sign "for the use of 2nd/3rd Class Passéngers" stuck on compartment windows of nominal 1st Class stock. WR stock post war until the mid 50's was very much a mixed bag.Uniformity was partial achieved with the construction of sufficient Mark 1 BR design by 1956 and the reintroduction of choc.& cream on titled trains,to be followed by a relapse into train formations of varying colours with the reign of the infamous General Manager Raymond in 1961/2

Into the mix went the general BR colour maroon in place of crimson&cream also mid 50's.Remember the song "Anything Goes" ?

A friend of mine used to carry a stock of 'For Use By Second-Class Passenger' stickers in his overcoat pocket, just in case there wasn't a declassified First already.

[coachmann]

Yes,but complicating matters would be that you would frequently see the sign "for the use of 2nd/3rd Class Passéngers" stuck on compartment windows of nominal 1st Class stock. WR stock post war until the mid 50's was very much a mixed bag.Uniformity was partial achieved with the construction of sufficient Mark 1 BR design by 1956 and the reintroduction of choc.& cream on titled trains,to be followed by a relapse into train formations of varying colours with the reign of the infamous General Manager Raymond in 1961/2

Into the mix went the general BR colour maroon in place of crimson&cream also mid 50's.Remember the song "Anything Goes" ?

Darwinian was asking about stock suitable for around 1930. Personally the only time I have seen first class coaches downgraded with window stickers 'for the use of second class passengers' was in the mid 1960s when LMS first class coaches were seeing their last summer of service prior to withdrawal. Maybe it also took place during the war for troop movements etc....I dunno as I was in my kiddies cot. 

 

Some composite push & pull coaches were downgraded to third class in the early 1930s when certain branch lines (often in competition with local bus services) became became third class travel only, but that was different.

Edited December 6, 2015 by coachmann

[asmay2002]

In investigating this very point for inter-company shared services (Portsmouth to Cardiff, for example) I was fortunate recently to find in an Oxfam shop Vol 2 of 'The Great Western Railway in the 1930s' (Runpast Publishing, a 1997 reprint of a 1987 edition): it is a wonderful collection of very clear photos, many of which show the very hotchpotch-ness to which Coachmann refers and, of course, the Collett stock. I can only suppose that Vol 1 is of equal quality. Those in the GWR know probably have it - otherwise it is worth seeking out in a library.

 

(Edited for spoeling mistaks)

Try bookfinder.

[olivegreen]

Off-topic, but many thanks for the tip on 'bookfinder'. 

[Ozexpatriate]

End of January on the Hornby website now actually.

I can well imagine they would like these items sold and shipped before the end of March.

[Ozexpatriate]

Could be talking rubbish, but Hattons description describes the King as shirt button and the coaches as chocolate and cream, and Hornby train packs typical match the loco and coaches

No, not rubbish. Graham Muspratt kindly confirmed this in the new announcements thread about a week ago.

 

The coach livery is not explicitly defined.

 

Oh ok then, even if they are not Southern...

 

R3401 Bristolian - GWR King 6009 'King Charles II' in shirt button livery with three of the new Collett bow ended coaches LH Brake Corridor Third 5108, LH Composite 6160 and RH Brake Corridor Third 5107 

 

R3397 LMS Suburban - Fowler 4P  2-6-4T in LMS lined black with three Stanier 57ft non-corridor coaches, Brake Thirds 20768/9 and Composite 16592 in LMS lined maroon

Edited December 7, 2015 by Ozexpatriate

[gwrrob]

Although I'm yet to find out for sure the coaches are indeed in shirtbutton livery, I read in the new Hornby handbook that the coaches have roofboards in the Brisolian set.

[Coach bogie]

In investigating this very point for inter-company shared services (Portsmouth to Cardiff, for example) I was fortunate recently to find in an Oxfam shop Vol 2 of 'The Great Western Railway in the 1930s' (Runpast Publishing, a 1997 reprint of a 1987 edition): it is a wonderful collection of very clear photos, many of which show the very hotchpotch-ness to which Coachmann refers and, of course, the Collett stock. I can only suppose that Vol 1 is of equal quality. Those in the GWR know probably have it - otherwise it is worth seeking out in a library.

 

(Edited for spoeling mistaks)

Ist book just as good as the second. There is one on eBay though no pic of cover

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Great-Western-Railway-in-the-1930s-v-1-Scott-Barry-Paperback-Book-/391330161510?hash=item5b1d186366:g:8QEAAOSw8-tWWDlv

 

The two books only carry a small percentage of the photos actually taken by Soole. There are a large number of other GWR shots taken in the Bristol Westbury area, far too many to fit in the book. In addition there are shots taken on the Eastern mainly Cambridge area and in the USA, mainly in the 1930's. I was lucky enough to see some of the 'discarded' images when the books where being collated. Sadly volume III never progressed. For those who cannot run large trains, Kings of 3/4/5 coach trains under local train headlights on Swindon - Bristol ruuning turns feature heavily in the collection - only a few used in the books.

 

Mike Wiltshire