lofty1966 Posted June 26, 2016 Share Posted June 26, 2016 There were about 10 in GWR colours on Ebay a week or so ago at £25 several of which didn't sell. If I had the cash , I would have splashed ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy M Posted June 26, 2016 Share Posted June 26, 2016 Were they BR or GW ones? Both, like I said it appeared to be the full range of releases. I can't be certain of quantities though as most are in a locked cabinet. Andy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Colin Posted June 26, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 26, 2016 I was in John Dutfields at Chelmsford yesterday, they had lots of Colletts in both liveries (apart from BR third, I think I grabbed the last one). They do mail order and are very helpful (usual disclaimer). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Re6/6 Posted June 28, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 28, 2016 Thanks to the power of RMw I was successful in acquiring their last two all thirds by ringing at 0901 hrs! A big 'thank you' to Colin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big James Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 I've given in and ordered one of each. Might order myself a star to haul them. I'm slowly being seduced by the GWR and it's wonderful charm. But then I think every railway has a unique charm all of its own. Big james 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrock Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 Someone is bound to have captured such a formation on film. Instructions as to the formation of trains varied. They tended to specify the use of BR Standard stock where appropriate because of their couplings and gangways which differed from those on GW stock so adaptors were needed to couple one to the other. Sometimes, indeed, the instruction specified merely the number of coaches. On occasion not even that was laid down. I have a weekly notice from 1954 which states in respect of some specials "Station Master, X, to arrange suitable train". Some illustrations of real trains may help. I have picked out at random one of Peter Gray's exquisite colour albums "Steam Around Devon and Cornwall". Opening it equally at random I find a 1962 shot of a summer Saturday extra formed entirely of maroon coaches. The first coach is a Collett brake composite as modelled with disappointing inaccuracy by Mainline and now issued by Bachmann. The next three are Hawksworths and the remaining six are Mk 1s. The next choice dates from August 1960. The leading coach is a Period 3 LMS brake second, the next four are Colletts and may all be C54s with three maroon and one still in blood and custard. The sixth coach is indistinct but then come three Mk 1s in chocolate and cream. A final random pick shows what is said to be an Exeter to Kingswear stopper in July 1959. Because of the camera angle only the first three of the 10 coaches can be identified. The first is another maroon LMS brake second, the second a maroon C54 and the third a blood and custard Collett C77 as modelled with disappointing inaccuracy by Mainline and now issued by Bachmann who made it worse somehow. When it comes down to it, the job of the railway was and still is to move the passengers. It was more important to match the number of seats to the number of passengers as closely as possible than for the train to look nice! Chris . Excellent post. This information shows how well retooled Collett 'sunshine' stock would surely go down - they are so useful for building typical WR takes. I have been looking through a number of similar photo albums focusing on the Cambrian and it's surprising how they formed the mainstay of the coaching stock - more so than the newer Hawksworths it would seem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 Would it be total heresy to suggest a bit of kit building? Come now Chris, you're tired and need to sleep. It will be OK in the morning, you'll see Seriously. Even with Hornby's Colletts and Hawksworths, there is no way that all the desirable coaches will ever come ready to run. Chris 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Re6/6 Posted June 30, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 30, 2016 I do have a fair few of the 'old school' BSL bow-ender kits which with care do make up into decent models. Included are a few 70 footers. These types, I suspect, will never be proprietary models! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Colin Posted June 30, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 30, 2016 Would it be total heresy to suggest a bit of kit building? Come now Chris, you're tired and need to sleep. It will be OK in the morning, you'll see Seriously. Even with Hornby's Colletts and Hawksworths, there is no way that all the desirable coaches will ever come ready to run. Chris Chris, I noted your comments concerning the Bachmann Sunshine stock - given that only the brake compo and second have anything like the correct body shells, what's actually wrong with these particular models in terms of accuracy - are there windows in the wrong place or other glaring errors, or are they just in need of updating to more modern standards? As a mainly BR/SR modeller who dabbles in other regions from time to time, I've always thought they don't look bad for their age. Sorry to go slightly off-topic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 (edited) The Bachmann Colletts indeed do not look bad for their age. The problem is that the bodyshells are correct for only 2 of the coaches, the Third and the Brake Composite. For the Composite and Brake Third, Bachmann have just applied different markings to the same bodyshells but this is not correct. The real sunshine composite had 1 fewer compartment (as the 1st class compartments were larger) and hence one window fewer. I think the window arrangement on the corridor side is OK but I would not swear to it. The real Sunshine Brake 3rd was also a different bodyshell to the Brake Composite as it had a larger Guard's compartment and different window arrangement. It is one of the compromises that was acceptable back when they were released but would probably not be considered OK on a modern model. Here is a comparison of the Bachmann Brake 3rd (using the Brake Compo shell) and a real Brake 3rd on the SDR. Edited June 30, 2016 by Karhedron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Colin Posted June 30, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 30, 2016 So the brake compo and third are basically OK as they are? I was aware of Bachmann's mistakes with the other coaches (possibly perpetuated by Dapol in 2mm scale?) I have a couple of Comet sides packs for a brake 3rd and corridor compo and a couple of battered cheapies as donors - nice little project awaits! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted June 30, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 30, 2016 So the brake compo and third are basically OK as they are? I was aware of Bachmann's mistakes with the other coaches (possibly perpetuated by Dapol in 2mm scale?) I have a couple of Comet sides packs for a brake 3rd and corridor compo and a couple of battered cheapies as donors - nice little project awaits! They are both something like 2 mm too short in length, and the the windows on the third are the wrong height (but were the right height back in Mainline days). A real shame as lack of flush glazing aside, it is a nice bit of tooling. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 (edited) Would it be total heresy to suggest a bit of kit building? It probably would actually haha. There is no disrespect in this. The distinction between 'railway modellers' (people who build things) and 'proprietary modellers' (people who prefer to rely on RTR) often gets clouded on this forum. In between the two are the people who take the half-way house between full kit building and overlays. None of it really matters a damn so long a people are happy with their hobby, but if they want to run miniatures of real passenger trains, RTR-dependance will never provide the answer. Edited June 30, 2016 by coachmann 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Chris, I noted your comments concerning the Bachmann Sunshine stock - given that only the brake compo and second have anything like the correct body shells, what's actually wrong with these particular models in terms of accuracy - are there windows in the wrong place or other glaring errors, or are they just in need of updating to more modern standards? As a mainly BR/SR modeller who dabbles in other regions from time to time, I've always thought they don't look bad for their age. Sorry to go slightly off-topic. Apologies for not replying more promptly but I was absent for most of yesterday. As Fatadder has said, they are 2mm short - a glaring error indeed. This annoys me, not least because I only discovered it after quite a few hours invested [wasted?] in detailing the body. The daft thing is that the bogie centres scale out correctly. I have never learned the reason for the short length but have a theory that the drawings from which the moulds were prepared were fractionally under scale for whatever reason. In this day and age also there is no excuse for flush glazed coaches not to have flush glazing instead of sills big enough to accommodate a 4mm scale window box. I'm sure that the SEF vacuum formed glazing will make a difference until it goes yellow. As for passing off the brake compo as a brake second and the second as a composite, it has fooled wiser souls than I will ever be and comes across to this cynical observer as a misplaced attempt to recoup every last penny from tooling that must be fully depreciated by now. Still, all is not lost. Kits are available for many examples of the sunshine stock ... Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted July 1, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 1, 2016 Apologies for not replying more promptly but I was absent for most of yesterday. As Fatadder has said, they are 2mm short - a glaring error indeed. This annoys me, not least because I only discovered it after quite a few hours invested [wasted?] in detailing the body. The daft thing is that the bogie centres scale out correctly. I have never learned the reason for the short length but have a theory that the drawings from which the moulds were prepared were fractionally under scale for whatever reason. In this day and age also there is no excuse for flush glazed coaches not to have flush glazing instead of sills big enough to accommodate a 4mm scale window box. I'm sure that the SEF vacuum formed glazing will make a difference until it goes yellow. As for passing off the brake compo as a brake second and the second as a composite, it has fooled wiser souls than I will ever be and comes across to this cynical observer as a misplaced attempt to recoup every last penny from tooling that must be fully depreciated by now. Still, all is not lost. Kits are available for many examples of the sunshine stock ... Chris Chris, I only have brake composites and all thirds. I agree regarding the flush glazing but I can live with less than 1% error on the length - in fact I didn't even know about that until I read it on this topic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted July 1, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 1, 2016 Some laser cut glazing would be really handy for them.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovex Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Some laser cut glazing would be really handy for them.... but extremely fiddly to fit around all those vents Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 (edited) Some etched coach sides are not always the correct length, but the removal of 2mm is nothing if 1mm is cut from each end. Some Gresley coach sides have to have length added! The Bachmann sunshine coaches would look a darn sight better with brass sides and it isn't that difficult to do either. But then you have a toy underframe to alter and detail up. All that time and effort ironing out the compromises and trying to make a silk purse out of an old RTR model is better spent on building an etched brass coach. Edited July 1, 2016 by coachmann Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 The Bachmann sunshine coaches would look a darn sight better with brass sides and it isn't that difficult to do either. Agreed, but unless I have overlooked it in my search for perfection there is no etched side for the E159 brake composite as perpetrated by Bachmann. Never mind: I do have the germ of an idea to rehabilitate mine and if it comes to nought there are always other projects to take forward! Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Limpley Stoker Posted July 1, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 1, 2016 Agreed, but unless I have overlooked it in my search for perfection there is no etched side for the E159 brake composite as perpetrated by Bachmann. Never mind: I do have the germ of an idea to rehabilitate mine and if it comes to nought there are always other projects to take forward! Chris I have chosen to live with mine by 'colouring in' the windowsills with a non permanent brown fine fibre tip pen (Staedtler lumocolor) - easy to wipe any mistakes with a moist finger. Incidentally I measured the sunshine window height of my original Mainline 3rds at 10.2 mm and to my surprise my early Bachmann Bk 3rd is also 10.2 mm, I thought Bachmann had modified the tooling along the Replica pattern where the windows are only 9.2 mm high! I remember the early Mainline models had a tendency to go banana shaped,and assumed the smallers windows made this less likely. I would have a go at flush glazing if I could work out how to round the corners of an accurately cut acetate window panel. Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 (edited) Agreed, but unless I have overlooked it in my search for perfection there is no etched side for the E159 brake composite as perpetrated by Bachmann. Never mind: I do have the germ of an idea to rehabilitate mine and if it comes to nought there are always other projects to take forward! Chris Talk with Bill Bedford as I do occasionally when looking for particular coaches. He just might have done the CAD's. I always looks to see what other etched coach producers have on their lists. A GWR Bars III Toplight is currently on the to-build list that I found while scouring the 'net. Edited July 1, 2016 by coachmann Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium cctransuk Posted July 1, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 1, 2016 As Fatadder has said, they are 2mm short - a glaring error indeed. This annoys me, not least because I only discovered it after quite a few hours invested [wasted?] in detailing the body. The error could scarcely be that 'glaring', if you didn't notice it until after a few hours of working on the body !! Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 The error could scarcely be that 'glaring', if you didn't notice it until after a few hours of working on the body !! Regards, John Isherwood. Where's the 'fair point' button? Chris 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigw Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 This is not a Hornby coach, nor even a RTR. It is one of a number of Lawrence coaches that were sold on Ebay a few weeks back. I was the only bidder on this one! If my looking at things is correct, this is a E128 which Gerry Beale noted as being a good one for Hornby to do. This one is painted in the 1923-1927 panelled livery (by Dave Studley). I will be converting it to P4, replacing the gangways and a few other things. What the photo does show (apart from an E128!), is how spectacular the panelled livery would look on the Hornby model and I cant help but think it would have a lot of commercial appeal too. Regards, Craig W 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 What the photo does show, is how spectacular the panelled livery would look on the Hornby model and I cant help but think it would have a lot of commercial appeal too. Very nice indeed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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