16t minerals

[TheSignalEngineer]

Stripping the steamers was quite labour intensive compared with wagons. There was bolier lagging to get rid of and the copper to take out separately. The only higher value metal in a wagon was the axle bearings, that's if the locals hadn't already nicked them.

 

Interesting shot of the Palethorpes van, one of two built at Swindon for the Dudley to Cardiff circuit.

[HillsideDepot]

Some interesting footage of 16 tonners in their "natural habitat" in this film - http://player.bfi.org.uk/film/watch-review-33rd-year-no-10-1980/ (and plenty of scenes of the new fangled Merry-Go-Round hoppers which usurped them). 

[26power]

From Peter Brabham on Flickr.

 

In colour:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/taffytank/8482342237/in/dateposted/

 

Larbet:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/taffytank/17611942141/in/dateposted/

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/taffytank/14007591910/in/photostream/

 

People load:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/taffytank/14176443981/in/dateposted/

 

Black and white

https://www.flickr.com/photos/taffytank/5960942117/in/album-72157624820751216/

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/taffytank/5176039544/in/album-72157624820751216/

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/taffytank/16512078202/in/dateposted/

 

Painted out white stripe, some sort of label on side, coiled steel loads?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/taffytank/16151394616/in/dateposted/

 

I don't think posted before, apologies if they have been.

[Fat Controller]

From Peter Brabham on Flickr.

 

 

Painted out white stripe, some sort of label on side, coiled steel loads?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/taffytank/16151394616/in/dateposted/

 

I don't think posted before, apologies if they have been.

I don't think I've seen a photo of a loaded 16t 'Coil' before; the fleet was operated by Richard Thomas and Baldwin. Thanks for posting.

[hmrspaul]

I don't think I've seen a photo of a loaded 16t 'Coil' before; the fleet was operated by Richard Thomas and Baldwin. Thanks for posting.

But they aren't renumbered, they appear to be in BR ownership and this is an early photo.  Whereas the RTB fleet was renumbered - or was this only partial?

in 1970 http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/rtbmineralcoil/e131de16e

and in 1978 http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/rtbmineralcoil/e3e9966f7

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/rtbmineralcoil

 

 

The painting out of the diagonal end door strip is also interesting, the RTB wagons don't appear to have done that. I wonder if the doors were sealed on those early coils?

 

Paul

Edited August 11, 2016 by hmrspaul

[BlackRat]

Can you imagine the hysterical reaction to people being carried in open minerals and vans these days?

 

Happy times.

 

All gone, like the wagons they were travelling in.

[Adam]

But they aren't renumbered, they appear to be in BR ownership and this is an early photo.  Whereas the RTB fleet was renumbered - or was this only partial?

in 1970 http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/p66368710/e131de16e

and in 1978 http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/p66368710/e3e9966f7

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/?q=rtb

 

 

The painting out of the diagonal end door strip is also interesting, the RTB wagons don't appear to have done that. I wonder if the doors were sealed on those early coils?

 

Paul

 

Aha! I've always wondered what these looked like, ever since I found the diagram for them. The cradles are very like those in the converted pig iron wagons (Coil Cs) with moveable bolsters:

 

http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/BRBDocuments/BRFreight2Issue.pdf (pages 46 and 47 of the PDF)

 

The diagram states that the end door was 'locked' (presumably welded up). There were 200 of these, with the numbers given - the second wagon from the camera (B266689, I think it is)  looks interesting because it appears to be grey - the lettering is clearly on a black patch - but with what appears to be a vac' cylinder clearly visible and the inverted white triangle on the door indicating (actually, what does that indicate? Where the vac' release cord was?). being in the middle of the rake, I assume that it was vac' fitted. The plate affixed to the side looks a bit like this one attached to a 24 1/2 tonner: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/110665-return-to-plate-on-br-24-12-ton-mineral-wagon-oakdale-colliery/

 

So, more than enough gen to model the type now. Great!

 

Adam

[Michael Delamar]

Coaling a coronation at Perth, note the men in the wagon,

https://www.flickr.com/photos/28083135@N06/28584004286/

[phil gollin]

.

 

Excellent

 

Was that a real life April's Fool joke ? 

 

I just cannot imagine how that came about other than a joke or a dare.

Edited August 24, 2016 by phil gollin

[davefrk]

.

 

Excellent

 

Was that a real life April's Fool joke ? 

 

I just cannot imagine how that came about other than a joke or a dare.

 

It was because the coaling plant was out of action for maintenance and the big tenders were just too high for coaling from a wagon on the ground.

 

Dave Franks

[rue_d_etropal]

would mke an interesting scene on a layout. no-one would believe it. All it would need could be sourced from Dapol(ex Airfix) kits, assuming you were not worried which loco. Wonder if other locos were coaled the same way.

 

The humble 16t wagon is a bit like the Mallard duck, so common that not much interest to enthusiasts so poorly documented. I was looking for scale drawings, could not find any , even found something stating what I say above, but then was pointed to a source of drawings, more official, than dead scale, and only showing bodies. Had not realised now many variants there were, including 2 that came from repatriated ones from France( I think Parkside Dundas prodce one of these, not the other).

Edited August 24, 2016 by rue_d_etropal

[Porcy Mane]

Coaling a coronation at Perth, note the men in the wagon,

 

That's the style. One man doing the graft, eight telling him how to do it.

 

The humble 16t wagon is a bit like the Mallard duck, so common that not much interest to enthusiasts so poorly documented. I was looking for scale drawings, could not find any , even found something stating what I say above

 With respect: you can't of looked very hard.

I can think of numerous articles and books that have been published that contains drawings and histories. Probably the most comprehensive was the three part series , " The 16 ton Steel Mineral Wagon" by Peter Fidzuk published in Modellers Back Track. I can' t remember the dates for all in the series but the Development under BR was covered in Vol 1, No 5. Load of Illustrations and drawings of various diagrams.

 

The series has had a few mentions in this thread. Back issues available from various sources including:

http://www.vintagecarriagestrust.org/magazines.htm

So having said that, have some scrap:

wyks - ab 0-4-0st crossleys scrapyard shipley JL by John Law, on Flickr

 

P

Edited August 24, 2016 by Porcy Mane

[Michael Delamar]

Me on Harry circa 1986 at Buxton.

 

[Mark Saunders]

would mke an interesting scene on a layout. no-one would believe it. All it would need could be sourced from Dapol(ex Airfix) kits, assuming you were not worried which loco. Wonder if other locos were coaled the same way.

 

The humble 16t wagon is a bit like the Mallard duck, so common that not much interest to enthusiasts so poorly documented. I was looking for scale drawings, could not find any , even found something stating what I say above, but then was pointed to a source of drawings, more official, than dead scale, and only showing bodies. Had not realised now many variants there were, including 2 that came from repatriated ones from France( I think Parkside Dundas prodce one of these, not the other).

 

There are ample drawings of these published, BR Wagons vol 1 by Mann, Ward, Larkin, Silsbury & Bartlett has several and so does a three part article in an early Modellers Backtrack by Pete Fidczuk!

 

Parkside produce the  1/100 slope sided mineral these were the Chas Roberts standard prewar design and supplied to the Ministry of Transport and sent to France from where they were eventually returned later; likewise the 1/112 cupboard door minerals were supplied to France and later returned!

 

Mark Saunders

[Porcy Mane]

Me on Harry circa 1986 at Buxton.

 

Nice buffer.

[hmrspaul]

There are ample drawings of these published, BR Wagons vol 1 by Mann, Ward, Larkin, Silsbury & Bartlett has several and so does a three part article in an early Modellers Backtrack by Pete Fidczuk!

 

Parkside produce the  1/100 slope sided mineral these were the Chas Roberts standard prewar design and supplied to the Ministry of Transport and sent to France from where they were eventually returned later; likewise the 1/112 cupboard door minerals were supplied to France and later returned!

 

Mark Saunders

Bartlett, P., Larkin, D., Mann, T., Silsbury, R., and Ward, A. (1985) An illustrated history of BR wagons, Volume 1 published by Oxford Publishing Company, 192 pages.

Drawings -

BR slope-sided mineral ex WD 1/100; Mineral weld ex WD 1/102; ex SNCF Mineral 1/112; Weld Mineral 1/108; Weld Mineral rebody 1/108; Double door Mineral 1/110; Double door VB Mineral 1/119 & 1/120; Double door Mineral rebody; Double door Mineral 24.5t 1/115; Ironstone tippler 1/181.

 

 

Fidczuk, Peter. (1991a) The 16ton steel mineral wagon, part one Prewar and wartime designs.   Modellers Backtrack vol. 1 (part 3) pp 124 - 133.

     

Drawings - official of the slope sided mineral, Hurst Nelson 14/16t private owner , ex MWT/SNCF diag. 1/112 .

 

Fidczuk, Peter. (1991b) The 16ton steel mineral wagon, part two Later Pre-Nationalisation    developments.  Modellers Backtrack vol. 1 (part 4) pp 148 - 156.

 

Drawings - LNER diag. 188/BR diag. 1/103 ex MOT rivet ; BR diag. 1/105 ex MOT rivet ; BR diag. 1/102 ex WD welded .

 

 

Fidczuk, Peter. (1991c) The 16ton steel mineral wagon, part 3: Developments under British Railways. Modellers Backtrack vol. 1 (part 5) pp 220 - 230.

Drawings - BR diag. 1/108 welded ; BR diag. 1/109 riveted ; BR diag. 1/108 rebody welded.

 

When I was in the HMRS shop at the Study centre at Swanwick Junction they had volumes 1, 2 and 3 of MB, In the folders available at that time and reasonably priced.

 

 

Paul

[Mark Saunders]

There are General Arrangement Drawings in the HMRS collection (at least one of the drawings is in the Continental section of the drawings as it is a MoT one), plus photographs in their photograph collection!

 

Mark Saunders

[south_tyne]

 

So having said that, have some scrap:

wyks - ab 0-4-0st crossleys scrapyard shipley JL by John Law, on Flickr

 

P

Nice! Any idea of the date that was taken?

[hmrspaul]

Nice! Any idea of the date that was taken?

Presumably circa 1975 as it says.

 

Delightful photo.

 

Paul

Edited August 24, 2016 by hmrspaul

[Enterprisingwestern]

would mke an interesting scene on a layout. no-one would believe it. All it would need could be sourced from Dapol(ex Airfix) kits, assuming you were not worried which loco. Wonder if other locos were coaled the same way.

 

The humble 16t wagon is a bit like the Mallard duck, so common that not much interest to enthusiasts so poorly documented. I was looking for scale drawings, could not find any , even found something stating what I say above, but then was pointed to a source of drawings, more official, than dead scale, and only showing bodies. Had not realised now many variants there were, including 2 that came from repatriated ones from France( I think Parkside Dundas prodce one of these, not the other).

 

Apart from the sources quoted, MRJ, Model Railways/YMR, Railway Modeller et al have all had articles on the 'umble mineral, in fact I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't a magazine which hadn't covered them to some extent.

 

Mike.

[br2975]

Aha! I've always wondered what these looked like, ever since I found the diagram for them. The cradles are very like those in the converted pig iron wagons (Coil Cs) with moveable bolsters:

 

http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/BRBDocuments/BRFreight2Issue.pdf (pages 46 and 47 of the PDF)

 

The diagram states that the end door was 'locked' (presumably welded up). There were 200 of these, with the numbers given - the second wagon from the camera (B266689, I think it is)  looks interesting because it appears to be grey - the lettering is clearly on a black patch - but with what appears to be a vac' cylinder clearly visible and the inverted white triangle on the door indicating (actually, what does that indicate? Where the vac' release cord was?). being in the middle of the rake, I assume that it was vac' fitted. The plate affixed to the side looks a bit like this one attached to a 24 1/2 tonner: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/110665-return-to-plate-on-br-24-12-ton-mineral-wagon-oakdale-colliery/

 

So, more than enough gen to model the type now. Great!

 

Adam

 

Could the 'plate' or label affixed to the sides read "For pickled coil traffic. Empty to Abbey Works, Port Talbot W.R." .........." which is why the fitted wagons were converted, and the BR routing instruction ?

.

Brian R

Edited August 24, 2016 by br2975

[PatB]

Nice buffer.

 

B*&%dy whitemetal soldering.

[south_tyne]

Presumably circa 1975 as it says.

 

Delightful photo.

 

Paul

Thanks Paul... and sorry, what a muppet I am for not spotting that...

[Adam]

Could the 'plate' or label affixed to the sides read "For pickled coil traffic. Empty to Abbey Works, Port Talbot W.R." .........." which is why the fitted wagons were converted, and the BR routing instruction ?

.

Brian R

 

That would be my assumption (I left it implicit originally). It's useful to know what the outside of the wagons looked like; the diagram makes the physical details obvious.

 

Adam

[br2975]

That would be my assumption (I left it implicit originally). It's useful to know what the outside of the wagons looked like; the diagram makes the physical details obvious.

 

Adam

 

The 1980s RM article on coil conversions from the Airfix/Dapol 16 tonner showed the "For pickled coil...." lettering painted directly onto the body side.

.

I don't know where the author of that article obtained that info, as I don't recall seeing any photos of the fitted BR wagons, only the unfitted RTB wagons.

.

This John Wiltshire/Peter Brabham photo is the first I recall seeing, and would appear to date from around the time the wagons were first converted.

.

I cannot understand how I missed the photo, as being "Cardiff-centric" I have studied this Flickr site many times.

.

Brian R