Little Didcot

[M.I.B]

Wow.  thanks for the 12":1' model pictures.

[RosiesBoss]

G'day, Castle,

 

Your update on the restoration of 4079 has revived some old memories. I visited the UK in Aug-Sep 1975 and saw 4079 at Carnforth - very hard to photograph, in the shed, but I managed to get these:

 

 

 

Two years later and 4079 was delivered to Eveleigh Carriage Works, next to the NSW Railways Laboratories, where I was working. I don't think much work was done during her arrival and subsequent shunting into storage.

 

Here she is, being hauled through Redfern Station and into the yard behind Alco diesel-electric loco 48148.

 

She was shunted around the yard and into the works shed by X210, a diesel hydraulic rail tractor locally built upon the bogie frame of an AD60 Beyer-Garratt.

 

Once in the shed, a chain wire fence was constructed around her, to prevent souvenir hunting until transfer to Western Australia.

 

I hope this helps you fill out her "biography".

 

Regards,

Rob

 

Edited March 9, 2013 by RosiesBoss

[Castle]

Hi Rob,

 

Those shots are AMAZING! Thanks very much for sharing them with us here. It was great that you were able to follow her journey on the way out to Oz in this way. The thing about her having the fence built round her is news to me and to have photo evidence too is excellent.

 

All the best,

 

Castle

[farren]

super pics!!! looking at the second photo the main frames are painted red was this done after her retirement or did castles have red frames when working in BR days? i have never noticed them being that colour before. and sitting next to some of stainer's fainest work one next to the castle fitted with hinged crossbar for the door dart. the second dose not.

[Castle]

Hi Farren,

 

The red frames was purely a preservation thing for No. 4079 - apparently at the behest of Lord Gretton when he owned her and it stuck until she returned to the UK. The frames are now black again.

 

The picture is great isn't it? The grandfather and the kids if you think about it - they are quite different but also share a lot of common heritage. When there is a Stanier designed LMS machine on shed at 81E, it is regarded as a long lost cousin!

 

All the best,

 

Castle

[RosiesBoss]

G'day again,

 

I still have one reminder of 4079's stay here in Sydney.

 

While I was briefly in the UK in 1975, I purchased a full-sized varnish transfer of a GWR garter crest from Collectors' Corner at Euston.

 

Upon return to Oz, I simply stored it, unsure of how to mount it. Two years later, with 4079 locked up at Eveleigh, I asked the foreman of the Carriage Works paint shop (a personal friend and fellow musician in the workshop band) to colour-match the green onto a glazed frame and then mount the crest. He did and it now hangs in my home as a daily reminder of a great holiday, more than half a lifetime ago.

 

Regards,

 

Rob

 

 

[Castle]

Hi All,

 

Now, where was I?

 

Things have been a little hectic at chez Castle recently, with such inconveniences as going to work and so on... Modelling time has been at a very high premium ( I.E. non - existent!) so the odd moment here and there was grabbed to keep things moving, albeit at a snail's pace.

 

I figured that the next move was to begin the interior work. Having peered inside it seems to be very simple. A wall along one side to form a corridor and shaped at the ends to allow access to the connections at each ends and a separate guard's compartment. I roughed out the shape I plasticard to start with and got it all to fit.

 

 

The guard's compartment got a highly modified section of Comet seat and a table, along with a brake pedestal . The doors for the luggage compartments was done with a layer of thin plasticard sheet. It was painted with Games workshop acrylics to simulate the wood finish and some brass door handles from the Comet etch supplied with the kit used to finish. I still have to make and fit the letter rack and brake setter and pipe in the guard's compartment. The painting of the internal walls of the coach sides is selective as there is no need to do a lot of it as it can't be seen and if I don't have to risk the external finish doing it then there is no point. The long, almost unbroken internal wall hides a LOT of sins... I know its all a bit over the top for a full brake interior but still, why not?!

 

 

There have been a few transfers applied to the outside and all those number ones were carefully juggled into place the lining was also done with transfers.

 

 

Thanks to all the advice from my fellow RMWEBBERS, a few etches of window bars of varying types were purchased and await modification and fitting.

 

 

Well, there we are for now. It's not far off finished and with luck I will get the majority of it done over the bank holiday weekend so the next update won't be too far away now. Until next time...

 

All the best,

 

Castle

[Kev_Lewis]

Crikey! And I thought 7mm lining was fiddly. Very excellent work.

 

The interior has to be done really, doesn't it? You'll know it's in there. Don't tell anyone, but I'm going to put luggage etc inside my MK1 BG.

[Castle]

Hi Kev,

 

And I was going to put some in this too to cover up the various mounts and screw tops...

 

All the best,

 

Castle

[Kev_Lewis]

We'll have to compare close up through the window photo's.

[richbrummitt]

Crikey! And I thought 7mm lining was fiddly. Very excellent work.

 

The interior has to be done really, doesn't it? You'll know it's in there. Don't tell anyone, but I'm going to put luggage etc inside my MK1 BG.

OKAY. I WON'T TELL ANYONE.

[Collett2251]

Hi Castle, it's surprising what passengers do get up to in coach interiors!

 

 

Chris

[Horsetan]

That's very tame, Chris.....

[MJI]

That's very tame, Chris.....

Well how about this.

 

I have ridden a bike inside a BG.

 

It was too heavy with all my stuff piled on top, so I fired it up and rode up the ramp.

 

With an expansion pipe exhaust - ie noisy, mind you it was also ported and was putting out about 15bhp up from 12.

 

And once I rode along the underpass at Plymouth station, with lots of luggage piled on the top. Again too heavy to push.

 

It is possible a random member here might now know who I am from this.

[Castle]

Hi All,

 

Just a quick Big Didcot update from Little Didcot...

 

Although she was relaunched into traffic over the recent bank holiday weekend, today was a thank you for all of us that had dropped our current projects to jump in and take part in Mission Pannier! No. 3738 was steamed for us all to indulge in what is colloquially known on shed as 'workers playtime'! This is where we all had a go at driving her up and down the main demonstration line under the supervision of one of the crews.

 

Here are two pictures of the entertainments for your delectation and edification:

 

 

 

No. 3738 is now set for the remaining 4 years of her current boiler certificate. We started dismantling her in mid to late November to get the boiler out, it was tested out of frames last month, the annual insurance exam was about two weeks ago and she was back in service by Easter. Not too bad at all if we do say so ourselves...

 

All the best,

 

Castle

 

P.S. No prizes for spotting the only bit that we forgot to put the black top coat on...

[gwrrob]

Here she is with the new Bachmann shunters truck.   http://www.flickr.com/photos/26465928@N02/2634361321/

 

I'd prefer her in green though.

[Castle]

Hi Rob,

 

Lovely pictures there - very nice indeed!

 

Nos. 3738 and 3822 (with the black paint and plated over cab windows) are in wartime black to help tell the stories. The sacrifice, supreme effort and harsh conditions endured by railway personnel during both world wars is largely forgotten with focus of course being mainly being on the battles and not the home front. By having these engines in these schemes, we get to help tell these stories and pass the history along. When we were playing yesterday, a chap and his family asked to come up on to the platform to have a look at the engine and take a few pictures. Whilst they were there, one of is two sons asked me (very intelligently I might add, given his age) as to why the engine was black but didn't have the BR logo on it. This promoted a little discussion amongst us, the gentleman and his family about the railways in WW II. The lad went away with a great deal more knowledge than he started with by asking a simple question and the railwaymen were remembered to another group of people. Mission accomplished!

 

Besides, the collection already has a green one:

 

http://www.didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/locos/3650/3650.html

 

We don't want any duplication now do we?

 

All the best,

 

Castle

[RJS1977]

Just out of interest, why were they painted black during WW2? Was it just a shortage of green paint? (I thought at first it might have been to make it harder for any German paratroopers to identify which railway it was, but the GWR rather gives that away....).

Edited April 7, 2013 by RJS1977

[Castle]

Hi RJS,

 

I can only guess that it was something to do with the chemicals that went into the green paint being sourced outside the UK and / or being in short supply and / or being required elsewhere for essential war work. They did need to paint a lot of essential war winning stuff green during the war - Spitfires, Hurricanes, Lancasters, Churchill Tanks, etc... I am not a chemist so I don't know what goes into green paint, only that it stops the rust and you have to get the right shade otherwise you have lots of enthusiasts telling you about it! The irony being that apart from two exceptions, all of the Kings and Castle remained green (albeit unlined) throughout the war. How Swindon got away with that one I don't know but someone out there will know more about this than I do.* Lets throw this one open to the floor.

 

Anyone please?

 

All the best,

 

Castle

 

*If there are any Castle Class questions, I'm your chap!**

 

**Except the one above about the green of course...

[Miss Prism]

Quite frankly, with the dire situation the country was in during the first few years of the war, and of the extraordinary demands on the railways during that time, I'm surprised Swindon could spare time to do any new painting, and for such painting that was done, a quick slap over with black was perfectly sufficient in the circumstances.

[Torn-on-the-platform]

Interesting to see a loco in GWR black - not sure I've ever seen it done, though I was aware that it occurred. I was wondering the other day why I hadn't seen any models in this livery.

[The Stationmaster]

Hi RJS,

 

I can only guess that it was something to do with the chemicals that went into the green paint being sourced outside the UK and / or being in short supply and / or being required elsewhere for essential war work. They did need to paint a lot of essential war winning stuff green during the war - Spitfires, Hurricanes, Lancasters, Churchill Tanks, etc... I am not a chemist so I don't know what goes into green paint, only that it stops the rust and you have to get the right shade otherwise you have lots of enthusiasts telling you about it! The irony being that apart from two exceptions, all of the Kings and Castle remained green (albeit unlined) throughout the war. How Swindon got away with that one I don't know but someone out there will know more about this than I do.* Lets throw this one open to the floor.

 

Anyone please?

 

All the best,

 

Castle

 

*If there are any Castle Class questions, I'm your chap!**

 

**Except the one above about the green of course...

And don't forget that even in 1942 they were still lining 'Kings' and 'Castles'!!

[RosiesBoss]

Hello everyone,

 

Castle has (sort of) asked what would have been in wartime green paint. This retired, former NSWGR chemist may be able to help here.

 

Chromium is a wonderful element. It is one of the main alloying elements in stainless steel, can be used as a decorative and protective coating ("chrome plating") and its compounds are coloured.

 

Chromium compounds fall into 2 groups, of valency 3 and valency 6 (depending on the oxidation state of the compound). Valency 3 compounds, such as chromium oxide are green and valency 6 compounds, such as sodium (and other) chromates are yellow.

 

"Middle chrome green" paint, as used by the GWR and others, would have largely depended on a supply of chromium oxide. Yellow pigments used to make use of lead chromate. In each case, these would have been imported and in short supply during WW2. Lead chromate was also not just a decorative finish, but one that prevented corrosion, due to its passivation abilities. Barium chromate  acted as a barrier coat between aluminium and other metals, such as steel, to inhibit galvanic corrosion that could otherwise commence once the joint became wet.

 

Chromate compounds are now known to be carcenogenic, so their use has largely disappeared.

 

Today's paints now make more use of synthetic pigments and are now able to be applied and cure much more easily and quickly than they used to be. But I wonder whether they last as well?

 

Regards,

 

Rob

[Mikkel]

Many thanks for these photos Castle, and especially for doing the work that helps keep steam alive!

 

I like your point about the black wartime livery helping to tell the stories of the effort and sacrifies made.  I've been thinking of extending the timeframe for my next layout backwards a bit so it would include the last couple of years of the war (been watching too much Foyle again!). It would be nice to illustrate some stories from the time.

 

Is there any particular book that you know that includes railwaymen's stories from the war?

[Castle]

Hi All,

 

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to the paint discussion - particularly Rob and his chemistry experience. I knew somebody here would know. It seems that the chromium compounds would be the trick. As Mike says though, they were still lining the 4 cylinder beasts in 1942. They must have had a secret stash of paint...

 

It shouldn't be too difficult to produce models in the WW II livery - plating over the side cab windows is simple enough and black paint if needed is easy to do too. A trip to the Fox website for the GWR transfers would seal the deal. Chris is right though - there aren't many models done like this. One exception is MickLNER on this forum who has done some absolutely cracking models of the Gresley Pacifics in wartime condition on his thread which is well worth reading.

 

I would have thought that you would have been looking at the end of WW I rather than WW II Mikkel! Still, I would encourage any wartime railway modelling. One book I have on WW II railwaymen is Steaming Through The War Years by Reg Robertson, published by Oakwood Press. It is based on his experiences on the ex Great Eastern lines rather than the GWR but it is a cracking read none the less. The ISBN number is 0 85361 4725.

 

All the best,

 

Castle