RMweb Premium M.I.B Posted April 8, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 8, 2013 I have a black Anthony Manor - not sure if AM was ever black but I got 2 in a deal and a black engine seemed like a good idea. I an now pondering about turning my second Collett 0-6-0 black as well - this was an Ebay bargain due to some clown daubing it with tan paint and calling that "weathering". As for black GW locos to fool German parachutists............. I'm sure Fritzy had lots to learn about before memorizing the railway company engine colours. Also you do get a bit of drift when you static line parachute, but not enough to blow you from GW country to the land of Teak and Apple Green............ 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted April 8, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 8, 2013 Interesting to see a black pannier in GW, looking forward to seeing it in the flesh in the summer. I really want to include a GWR black loco on my post war cheddar valley layout, the only problem is working on if something is in black from a photo! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted April 8, 2013 Author Share Posted April 8, 2013 Hi All, M.I.B.: Anthony Manor was (I am fairly sure) was in plain black with BR and I can imagine that she was black during the war too. Having been built in 1938, you can assume that she could have gone as far as 4 to 5 years before overhaul which would put her first heavy general in 1942 or 1943. Tender engines will look good in wartime livery because of the plated over cab windows so these two would be a great choice. The only issue being that if they are BR black you will have to remove the number and shedcode plates from the smokebox door. Rich: looking at your blog, you have a 2884 on your layout. If you renumbered her to No. 3822, which was built in 1940 then you can go for black no problem at all! All the best, Castle 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted April 10, 2013 Author Share Posted April 10, 2013 (edited) Hi All, This is not the end, nor is it the beginning of the end but it is perhaps the end of the beginning - of my boat train. Right then, as the song from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang goes "Up from the ashes, grow the roses of success". I don't think that two more diverse quotes could or indeed should be so crudely nailed together like this - Churchill and Disney! Long story short, an incident involving me, a badly shut pot of black paint and some of the most rural Anglo Saxon heard in the Castle household resulted in the coach sides and end assembly having an overnight bath in a small tank of Dettol. The resultant affects were: 1 A very annoyed Castle. 2 A very (some might say too) clean sort of a smell in the home of Castle - despite the double bagging of the tank in an attempt to seal it. 3 Some bare brass that needed a new paint job. 4 A lesson learned about keeping paint pots away from freshly finished paint jobs. 5 A very annoyed Castle I know points 1 and 5 are the same but I really do deserve the metaphorical kick up the backside for this schoolboy error! Thankfully, it only hit the model and didn't go all over the room too. Words like stable door and pre bolted horse might be used over point 4 but if it helps anyone else to not do this then so be it! If anything, paint job 2 was a bit better than paint job 1 so at the end of the day I think I have gained in all areas but the lost time and materials but we live and learn. These things are bound to happen from time to time and we have to overcome them to get on. Philosophical as always! Having got back to where I started from (!), I then had a look at the etched window bars. There are two types, the straight 5 bar types and what I call the grill type. Both of the etchings for these require trimming to fit and the 5 bar ones, if cut directly in half, were good for 2 of No. 111's windows. I love a bargain! The grill type also needed cutting in half but would only do one window each. The etchings on these are VERY thin and required careful handling. I must admit to loosing one in the process. Here is a before and after on the 5 bar without black top coat. Then there was much rejoicing (hooray!) as the final assembly could commence. Then I remembered what I had forgotten - the end grab rails! Not only hadn't I made them but I had also neglected to open out the holes in the etched ends AND drill the holes in the aluminium roof. Arghhhhhh! I could just smell another paintwork disaster... The modelling gods were obviously satisfied with the previous sacrifice of a fully finished paint job as a quick dab of roof grey that was sprayed into a can lid and then applied with a brush soon hid any evidence of my little miscalculation. I bent the handrails from Alan Gibson brass 0.45 mm handrail wire and used a combination of a drawing and a Bachmann Collet as inspiration. I have a small pot of chemical blackening solution so a ten minute soak in it made for no paint and no opening out of holes due to paint making things thicker. This is a kind of very advanced chickening out - I just didn't want to take any other tool than a pair of tweezers and a screwdriver to the coach any more! Luckily, this coach only has them on one end. The Bill Bedford style coupling was employed as I think it looks the business without having all the cornering issues of scale screw link couplings on coaches. The securing nuts for this and the bogies were sealed in place with my own special brew of a thick old pot of black games workshop acrylic as a kind of thread lock. It works quite well and it is totally removable so I can open the whole thing up in future if I want to install lights and the like in future. I haven't got around to putting the luggage in yet Kev, but I am going to an exhibition next month so I will have a look and see what they have on offer. The gangways are my own version of the Dart Castings set up, using end board etches, some scrap brass and my own paper bellows. After experimenting I found that the Dart ones at 4 sections long were a bit too long. For the minimum radius I have planned and forced the coaches to derail when I tried it, I reduced the thickness of the paper a bit and went for 3 which seems to work very well. Not prototypical probably but when little No. 4079 flashes past at a scale 90 mph who is going to know? I also blackened the end boards so there was no chance of the paint abrading off and causing problems as they seem to need to slide over each other quite a bit going through 'S' curve / cross over type points. Here it is being tested a bit earlier on with a little something else I have been tinkering with and I had to get it to this stage before any paint went anywhere near anything so I could make changes to the set up if needed. So there you have it, a finished Collett K. 41 Full Brake Coach representing No. 111 in its possible livery of Early BR crimson & cream. I don't care now if someone comes up with a picture of it in plain crimson and say "it wasn't in that livery you know" (imagine this said with stereotypical nerd type accent) I shall just put my fingers in my ears and go la la la la la etc until they go away... I have painted it twice now! I have suffered enough! And that's all for now... What's that you say? What is that next vehicle in the train Castle you say? That hasn't been on here before has it you say? Well, no, it hasn't I suppose... Well, alright, as it's you! Gee - it's a SIPHON, er, G. Much, indeed whole books have been written, about the famous GWR SIPHON breed of what would now be termed CCTs but are known to us GWR geeks as Brown Vehicles. This particular example is an inside frame SIPHON G No. 2796 of 1937 vintage, built as part of lot 1578 to diagram O.33. It sped up and down carrying milk churns and parcels, much like its fellow SIPHONS until the dark clouds of WW II closed in. It became part of an ambulance train and was use as part of Cass. Evac. (Casualty Evacuation) operations. To do this it gained roof ventilators and internal racking to hold the stretchers. It is quit a spooky vehicle in this respect as doubtless some of the poor souls that boarded her might well have been on their last journey and some may not have made it out the doors again. The truth is that we just don't know but it is a sobering thought and again another reminder of the railways role in winning WW II and the sacrifices made for victory. Funny how this subject has stuck with Little Didcot for a page or so isn't it? Today it's role is somewhat more peaceful as a store for the carriage and wagon department's soft furnishing and textile supplies. It has little purpose as an active vehicle on site but it is currently being externally restored so that it can be seen, enjoyed and appreciated by members and the public alike while continuing as a vital piece of equipment for the C&W projects. The model is basic as you can get - an old Lima version was bought on line and taken into Little Didcot's own C&W works. The under frame was stripped right down and detailed from various sources including Dart Castings, Frogmore and so on. The bogies were given new wheels to replace the cookie cutters fitted in Italy and they had the missing steps fitted too. It originally got screw link couplings and white metal hoses too but these have been removed in favour of the Bedford unit described above. The new numbers were courtesy of Modelmaster. Well, from famine to feast on this thread, you wait ages for Castle to get on and finish a project and post something about it and two turn up at once! Now I guess we need to look at a super saloon or three. As a teaser, look at the roof on this: All the best, Castle Edited April 11, 2013 by Castle 16 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 Looking very good Castle. I particularly like the siphon. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Mikkel Posted April 11, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 11, 2013 Regarding the livery of your K41, I think you will find..... No, only joking Your troubles certainly don't show on the finished coach, Castle, I think it looks excellent. I agree about the BB "couplings", I haven't tried them myself yet but have seen them used by others and always liked how they looked. The underframe on that G is quite an improvement! "Advanced chickening out" - now there's a useful phrase, thanks! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted April 11, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 11, 2013 My old gaffer said to me once.'Those who never f**k up,never made anything '.Fabulous work and that roof teaser is a work of art. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
69843 Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 (edited) I just had a long overdue look back through this, and I have to say Castle that your modelling is getting better and better. The Siphon is quite wonderful, and another example of a piece of ordinary equipment called into the line of duty in WWII. P.S. Can we have Pendennis Castle back? Please? Edited April 12, 2013 by 69843 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold farren Posted April 12, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 12, 2013 I've now caught up the all the past posts whats come to mined is the 7ft gauge track is cast with a hollow running though it. when both gauges are combined what rail is used on the side where both gauges run on. and dose this cause any problems with any track profile defences between the rails and the wheels running on them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted April 12, 2013 Author Share Posted April 12, 2013 (edited) Hi All, Thanks for all the likes and kind comments everyone! Mikkel: La la la la la... Only Joking! I am full of useful phrases like that - its the product of coming from a family that served in the Royal Navy. A slightly 'oblique' and very dry sense of humour! Rob: That is a key phrase that I have used a great deal (albeit in a more 'family friendly' version!) because doing really is key to learning how to do this stuff! 69843: I did the Siphon a while ago and just had a bit of tweaking to do to get it to run with Nos. 111 & 9118. Thanks for the kind words! And no, you can't... Sorry! Farren: At 81E the track on the mixed gauge stuff is all the bridge rail stuff as you describe and the speeds are so slow and the amount of actual use is so low that any problems of that sort wouldn't really show up. What the situation was in genuine mixed gauge days I have no idea at all but its an interesting thought. All the best, Castle Edited April 14, 2013 by Castle 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 ...Farren: At 81E the track on the mixed gauge stuff is all the bridge rail stuff as you describe and the speeds are so slow and the amount of actual use is so low that any problems of that sort wouldn't really show up. What the situation was in genuine mixed gauge days I have no idea at all but its an interesting thought...Broadly speaking (sorry) mixed gauge on baulks used three bridge rails and on transvers sleepers it used three double-headed or, later, bullhead rails. Weights of all rail types increased over the years but all types have a similar profile at the head so there was no real problem. Presumably, though, the common rail was subject to greater wear. Nick 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
69843 Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Wait...if you served in the Navy, then how come the humor is dry? And no, you can't... Sorry! [Dick Dasterdly] Drat, Double Drat and Triple Drat! [/Dick Dastardly] 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted April 13, 2013 Author Share Posted April 13, 2013 Hi 69843, I have never served in the navy at all, I come from a family of sailors! I am a land lubber so that explains the dryness... The answer is still no. Hi Nick, Thanks for that - I figured that someone such as yourself would be able to sort us out here! All the best, Castle 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted April 14, 2013 Author Share Posted April 14, 2013 (edited) Hi All, A Visitor from Brum... No. 5043 came through yesterday on a tour and had an hours stop at Didcot. Naturally, all the Didcot volunteers went out to say hello to Bob, Alistair and the rest of the gang and have a chat. A quick picture was snapped of this fine locomotive for Little Didcot just before she got the road: Enjoy! All the best, Castle Edited April 14, 2013 by Castle 11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium M.I.B Posted April 14, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 14, 2013 That picture has brightened up my day immensely. Many thanks. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tender Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 Hi Castle Saw this, and thought of you. Coming to Dicot soon. Ray & Polly 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted April 19, 2013 Author Share Posted April 19, 2013 Hi Ray & Polly, Well, that is something you don't see every day... Fantastic footage of the SMU there - brilliant! Myself and the guys at Didcot are really looking forward to it coming home. I hope you two are going to be 'on shed' at 81E again this year sometime as well! All the best, Castle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev_Lewis Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 There are some great videos, on YouTube, of the Steam Railmotor's visit to the Looe branch. Get comfy, set the video quality to HD, and crank up the volume! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tender Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 (edited) There are some great videos, on YouTube, of the Steam Railmotor's visit to the Looe branch. Yeh. But not with the recently restored Autotrailer 92 on the back. Edited April 19, 2013 by tender 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted April 19, 2013 Author Share Posted April 19, 2013 Hi Kev, That is the great thing about the SRM - it sounds like a good GWR loco should and what it sounds like its doing and what It is actually doing with those little wheels is two entirely different things. It sounds the business on the main demonstration line at Didcot and doesn't have to be pushed hard or fast to do it. Get it out on a railway proper and away you go... Magic! All the best, Castle 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted April 19, 2013 Author Share Posted April 19, 2013 (edited) Hi All, A super size post for some Super Saloons! A lot can be said about the GWR Super Saloons. They are iconic vehicles, they echo the GWR to a tee, they recall a golden age of rail travel and so on but for me its just the sheer presence and quality of these vehicles that is truly remarkable. They have an imposing bulk to them when seen from the outside, their bodies built to the maximum of the GWR's generous 9' 6" loading gauge and necessitating the angled door panels at the ends just like on the Centenary stock. This restricted their use but gave full licence to the interior designers. The interiors are stunning with intricate panelling, fine furniture making and high quality timbers. 8 of these coaches were built in 1932 between Diagrams G.60 & G. 61. They were built for use on the GWR's top passenger services, being involved with VIP and royal travel (hence the names) as well as more usually the ocean liner boat trains between Paddington and Plymouth. As the liner traffic to Plymouth switched to Southampton, the Super Saloons found gainful employment on the trains to Newbury Races amongst other VIP duties. They were available for hire for private parties and could be attached to a train if travelling with the usual riff-raff in regular first class simply wouldn't do... They were kept at the bottom end of the Old Oak Common carriage shed and were on standby for immediate use. Their position in the shed it is said also kept them under the direct gaze of the Carriage Inspector, ensuring their position at the top of the rolling stock pile. The charge for travelling in these coaches when they were first released into traffic was a ten shilling supplement ABOVE the normal 1st. class fare. This is more than it cost to ride the equivalent Pullman services in the UK at the time and would have cost more than even a ride on the LNER's Silver Jubillie! They really were the ultimate in luxury rail travel in an era of luxury rail travel. Built to Dia. G.60, No. 9112 Queen Mary was the second of the first two Super Saloons built and these had the added distinction of having interiors fitted by master furniture makers Trollpe & Co. this is a tour de force of woodworking in French polished walnut with book matched burr veneers on the internal sliding doors, delicate mouldings and a vaulted ceiling in the compartments. There are two main compartments and a 4 seat Coupe with a toilet at each end. It isn't exactly clear why this was not perpetuated in the other 6 but it is suspected that when the bill for them came into Swindon and the money men had picked themselves off the floor, the task for the next 6 interiors was quietly passed to a combination of Trollope & Co AND the Swindon men... Although tired in places, the air of quality in this untouched period interior still shines through when you walk into No. 9112. Built to Dia. G.61, No. 9113 Prince of Wales was the third Super Saloon to be built and the first to receive a Swindon interior. They also went with a French polished walnut interior but this is a slightly different dark English type with gold leaf outlining. The interior layout is the same as that for No. 9112 with movable winged chairs and tables in the main saloons. There is a gallery of period travel photographs on the pillars between the windows and the ceiling is of a more standard coach roof shape. The last of the super saloons built was No. 9118 Princess Elizabeth. This was built, like No. 9113 to Dia. G.61 but in 1937 underwent conversion to Dai. H. 46. This saw the removal of the coupe and one of the toilets and in their place a small kitchen facility was fitted. This removed the need for an additional kitchen vehicle to be fitted to a pure Super Saloon train, only a brake vehicle was needed as a Super Brake was never produced. The kitchen is as it was installed in 1937 and, as far as is ascertainable without risking actually firing it up, still in working order. All 8 saloons were refurbished after the Second World War and this involved new carpets, upholstery, windows and deeper ventilators. Upon nationalisation, they lost their names and were painted in the blood & custard livery. The small gap between the gutters and the top of the window meant that the top crimson stripe was omitted and just the lining was applied. This was true again when they went into chocolate & cream in 1957. Only No. 9111 King George ever received the later maroon livery. No. 9115 Duke of Gloucester and No. 9117 Princess Royal (which had the H.45 kitchen conversion) were withdrawn in October 1965 and were sadly scrapped. The other coaches (including No. 9111 and No. 9116 Duchess of York now at the South Devon Railway) were thankfully preserved in 1967 and the GWS trio moved to Didcot in 1976. There is a long term project to return the Didcot 3 to full working order and their original splendour. This is an exacting and difficult job, made all the more tricky by the need to preserve those amazing period interiors. Currently No. 9113 is in the works and is progressing well. The structure of the coach was found to be pretty good and the few structural repairs that were required have now been completed. The body has also had its steel panelling replaced and covered in the first few layers of paint. As can be seen from the photographs, it is currently up in the air, having its under frame and bogies attended to. The first bogie is nearly finished and it won't be long until the second is dismantled to commence its restoration. Then the long and painstaking process of reassembly and refinishing can begin. And then it has to be done twice more. The next will be No. 9118 leaving the greatest challenge - the Trollope & Co. interior in No. 9112 - until last. As you can imagine, this will take a while but eventually the Super Saloons will rise again and the main demonstration line will once again host wine and dine trains so we can all experience the glamour and luxury of these coaches. This is one of Didcot's designated special projects (like Nos. 4079 and 2999) and as a result it is the subject of an ongoing appeal, the details of which can be found on the Didcot Railway Centre website. The models are all from the Comet stable and the first thing that struck me when I received the box with little No. 9118 in was the weight of it! Curious, I have worked out that the whole train of K.41 full brake, Siphon G, 3 Super Saloons and the Hornby Hawksworth K. 45 full brake will come in at about 2.5 kilograms! I hope the Hornby Castle is up to it... The plan is as follows. I would build No. 9118 first as I needed to check the interaction between the couplings, the tightest radius track and the coaches. This would then let me see how this type of coach would go together and as No. 9118 was the most complex of the lot then the others should be easy... It seemed fairly similar to the regular Comet square end coach build. The one are where it did differ of course was on those unusual ends and having studied the diagrams and parts, it seemed to me that this was the trickiest bit. Therefore I started by working towards that. The rest I have done before so it won't hold any fears. The first job was to prepare the end etchings. After the holes were drilled out and it was cleaned, I started with the captive nut and the drop lights. The rest was then folded up and soldered together. The sides were also prepared for action too. I then needed to get the under frame to a stage whereby it could serve as a jig. To do this the upper two folds were done and soldered in place. Then the ends were bolted in place. As this is No. 9118, it has drop lights in the sides around the kitchen compartments so those were soldered in place. The gutters were folded over and soldered too. Yes - I hadn't noticed that I had missed the hinges at this point - I did later though... Now for the tricky bit - there are no tabs to join the sides to the ends and it requires very careful positioning to get it right. To be fair, it is difficult to see how else to do it given the shape. After thinking about it, I decided to solder the joint in place with higher temperature solder and then reinforce and fill it front and back with low melt solder. More in Part 2... Edited April 19, 2013 by Castle 9 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted April 19, 2013 Author Share Posted April 19, 2013 Part 2 This was then carved back on the outside to shape and repeated 3 more times! The under frame was next. First a little tip for those building Comet kits and wondering how to fit buffer beams - Blu Tac and drills to the rescue! The usual mix of the contents of the Dart Castings website was spread in a thin layer over the bottom of the underframe... ...as were the gas tanks from Comet - this first attempt resulted in them being a bit too high up - D'oh! I then fitted the roof extrusion. This was where I deviated from the Comet instructions a bit. I like to, where possible, have the roof as a separate piece for lazy masking and easy finishing. The inference from the Comet instructions is that the roof should sit between the the two end castings. A quick check on the real thing lead to the realisation that the roof goes straight through without any sort of shaping on the ends. To replicate this I trimmed the tops of the ends down so the roof sat over the top of them and then shaped the ends of the roof to match the ends of the coach. A bit of a fiddle but worth it in the end I think. The bogies have been built here too with the groovy little end steps on them. There is lots of detail on the roof of No. 9118 so I went up and took a terrible reference picture while one of the C&W gang looked on to ensure my safety. I started with the ventilators as they could be used as points of reference. Then the ribs went on with the handles and water tanks. The first of the kitchen fans also went on and finally the other kitchen ventilators and the electrical conduit. Modellers wanting to do these in a later than me format should be aware that BR fitted pipes to the roof tanks that lead from the old filler to the end of the coach so they could be filled from the ground making the roof even more complicated! The long process of masking, painting and transfers has started and is ongoing as I write this. That will do for now! All the best, Castle 12 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev_Lewis Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 Crikey, Castle! You're really spoiling us tonight. Two most excellent posts. The history of the Super Saloons is fascinating. I imagine that it must have been quite an experience to travel in such luxury. You're doing a cracking job on that Comet kit. Keep up the good work! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted April 19, 2013 Author Share Posted April 19, 2013 Crikey, Castle! You're really spoiling us tonight. Hi Kev, The GWR Super Saloons - the Ferrero Rocher of coaches... I had built a lot of No. 9118 alongside No. 111 as I mentioned earlier so that I could experiment with the couplings before any paint went anywhere near anything. I just wanted to 'finish' No. 111 on Little Didcot before I started posting about the saloons. Thanks for the kind comments! All the best, Castle 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev_Lewis Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 Hmm, perhaps I should have said (with French accent) "Ah, Mr Castle. You are really spoiling us!" Ha, ha! I don't like Ferrero Rocher, but I do like GWR Super Saloons. Ah! I thought I recognised an unpainted No. 111 in one of the photo's. I really should be cracking on with my Autocoach, especially as my monster order of solder and flux arrived from C&L today. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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