RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted February 20, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 20, 2013 Scott, I can see you're lurking there. I've been reading up on the Power district business. It would seem the easiest way for me to go would be to break the track bus into 2 and install a circuit breaker, such as "Power Shield" into each section. How were you planning on proceeding? Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukebox Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Jeff - a question about the Cobalts: how did you get confused with the polarity of the frog wire? As I understand it, the way the contacts are laid out, the Cobalt switches the polarity from the input on the left, when the mechanism is switched left, to the input on the right, when the turnout is switched right. Is it because you pre-wired them, and then had some rotated through 180 degrees when you installed them, that the mix up came about? (trying to figure out what when wrong, so i don't do the same thing!) Andy - those Cobalt levers are grand! It's soemthing I may well "upgrade" to in years to come. Yes, they stand a good 100+mm high - you can actually get a 3 sided signal box to mount them in, too. (no, they are one size fits all - no smaller ones...) I like the idea that you can also switch a pair of lights and a signal too - 3 sets of contacts per switch - but the tight wad in me wishes there was also a cheaper version that just had a simple DPDT switch within (tho I suspect this would only change the price by pennies - the cost of the switch mechanism wouldnt be that much more for the three switches, as these are custom made for DCCconcepts anyway) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted February 20, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 20, 2013 Jeff - a question about the Cobalts: how did you get confused with the polarity of the frog wire? As I understand it, the way the contacts are laid out, the Cobalt switches the polarity from the input on the left, when the mechanism is switched left, to the input on the right, when the turnout is switched right. Is it because you pre-wired them, and then had some rotated through 180 degrees when you installed them, that the mix up came about? (trying to figure out what when wrong, so i don't do the same thing!) Now I didn't know this - and I've downloaded the Cobalt manual. But, you see, I wasn't at all worried. I connected all my black wires to input 2, red to input 3. Did the "short test" on the turnouts and if I got it wrong it took me 5 seconds to swap the wires round. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Jeff - a question about the Cobalts: how did you get confused with the polarity of the frog wire? As I understand it, the way the contacts are laid out, the Cobalt switches the polarity from the input on the left, when the mechanism is switched left, to the input on the right, when the turnout is switched right. Is it because you pre-wired them, and then had some rotated through 180 degrees when you installed them, that the mix up came about? (trying to figure out what when wrong, so i don't do the same thing!) Andy - those Cobalt levers are grand! It's soemthing I may well "upgrade" to in years to come. Yes, they stand a good 100+mm high - you can actually get a 3 sided signal box to mount them in, too. (no, they are one size fits all - no smaller ones...) I like the idea that you can also switch a pair of lights and a signal too - 3 sets of contacts per switch - but the tight wad in me wishes there was also a cheaper version that just had a simple DPDT switch within (tho I suspect this would only change the price by pennies - the cost of the switch mechanism wouldnt be that much more for the three switches, as these are custom made for DCCconcepts anyway) I think you would need an O Gauge Signal Box to hide them in. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukebox Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 (edited) Hi Jeff - I think the way you drew it looks fine. You take the "output" from whatever DCC system you use, and then split it in two, feed it into the PSX's, and then the output from these is connected to the track bus. Mine is a little different because of the scale of Stockrington, but the principle is the same: Mains Power -> DCC system -> DCC Booster -> PSX(s) -> Track Buses (Busi(?)) Edited February 21, 2013 by jukebox Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukebox Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Of course I could be talking though my hat with the Cobalts (!) I just assumed the switching worked logically with the mechanical action... probably best I shut up about electrics at this point: I'm a civil engineer because of my utter inability to grasp the complexities of electrical engineering! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted February 20, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 20, 2013 I must be really stupid, or maybe I just don't read manuals properly! Now I think about it, it's obvious! I just didn't even think about the polarity wiring, as I knew I could get the right answer in seconds using a shorting lead. I've only set/tested 15/39 Cobalts to date. I'll now "think" about the rest!! Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tender Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Scott, I can see you're lurking there. I've been reading up on the Power district business. It would seem the easiest way for me to go would be to break the track bus into 2 and install a circuit breaker, such as "Power Shield" into each section. How were you planning on proceeding? Jeff Hi Jeff.I had a think about power districts but decided against them. Ok for exhibition layouts with multiple operators, but if your operating 'home alone' would you want half of the layout to carry on running while you try to sort out a short on the other half? Just a thought. Thoughtful Lune. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted February 20, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 20, 2013 (edited) Hee hee! You may be right - I'll check when I go into the bunker in the morning. I just wired up and used Alan Gartner's foolproof method in "How to get the frog polarity right" in the section "How to Wire Turnouts" here: http://www.wiringfordcc.com/switches_peco.htm Click on link, select "Turnouts" from blue box at top and scroll down... I'm sure you've seen this before! Jeff Edited February 21, 2013 by Physicsman Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukebox Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 (edited) Ah, see NOW I find the diagram i meant to reference: I just assumed that in the diagram as shown above the turnout is thrown to the left, so the two left hand contacts are active in each pair (Brown S1, Green S2). Throwing the turnout right, would then switch those to the right hand contacts... So as long as you oriented the bus inputs (Brown C and Green C) the same way as the track bus, the polarity should be correct. Is that how it actually is happening? Edited February 21, 2013 by jukebox Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted February 21, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 21, 2013 Yes, that's the diagram I have too. I can't confirm that's the reality until the morning (it'll be around 6pm your time) as the bunker is locked up and it's bl**dy cold out there. Your theory has merit though - it would be logical. As I said, since I could TEST for polarity with a single piece of wire, I never bothered too much about the matter.... Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukebox Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Hi Jeff. I had a think about power districts but decided against them. Ok for exhibition layouts with multiple operators, but if your operating 'home alone' would you want half of the layout to carry on running while you try to sort out a short on the other half? Just a thought. Thoughtful Lune. There's plenty of wisdom in that analysis, Jeff. As I said, for Stockrington, I envisage trains circulating in both directions on my mainline, while I move locos on and off shed, or bring stock into or out of the storage sidings, and exactly as Thoughtful Line (tender) has said, it's a circumstance where I wouldn't want the whole she-bang to shut down on me. I could probably get away with just two districts - "mainline" and "other" - but if ever my sons (or one day a long way away in the future, my son's sons (!)) - were operating with me, it would be good to know one mistake wouldnt collapse my virtual reality, so I'll split mine three ways. For Kirkby Luneside, I'd be doing exactly as you suggested - start with one PSX (there's no real savings in buying the -2 or -3 versus mutliple individual boards), and have the wiring installed in such a way you can divide and conquer later if you need to. Then play trains for a while and see how it all works out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
emt_911 Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 There's plenty of wisdom in that analysis, Jeff. A mistake is only a mistake if you learn from it. Duncan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Morning BOSS, I think Ray, (Tender) hit it absolutely on the head when he said about the difference between a home and an exhibition layout. Old Lune Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted February 21, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 21, 2013 Morning BOSS, I think Ray, (Tender) hit it absolutely on the head when he said about the difference between a home and an exhibition layout. Old Lune Yes, you're right. I hadn't thought about it from the angle he suggested. Very sensible - and will probably save me some money!! Jeff 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 I'm afraid I still use ye olde DC control, with point rodding to operate the points..... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted February 21, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 21, 2013 I'm afraid I still use ye olde DC control, with point rodding to operate the points..... Peter - "if it aint broke, don't fix it"..... Each to his own, as I said above. One of the annoying things about any hobby or pastime is where people try to push you in the direction they've gone. The DC vs DCC and the "my DCC controller/system is better than yours" are the first 2 that spring to mind. As long as it WORKS and does the job that YOU want it to, then that's fine. There's nothing to stop a healthy discussion that might make you aware of ways to improve your lot - should you so wish it. At the end of the day we are supposed to enjoy what we do... And btw, I should be outside wiring by now - surprisingly enjoyable, if a bit repetitive! Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted February 21, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 21, 2013 Rather than talking about layout construction, I've just ordered a largish skip for next week - to accommodate the DEstruction of what's left of the old layout. I toyed with the idea of keeping it (8 year's work) along with KL, but it's so inferior that it just had to go. A learning curve, as is the present project. This is going to be very messy! But I do get a bedroom back in return. I don't think I'll be doing much work in the bunker over the weekend! Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Rowsley17D Posted February 21, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 21, 2013 (edited) Rather than talking about layout construction, I've just ordered a largish skip for next week - to accommodate the DEstruction of what's left of the old layout. I toyed with the idea of keeping it (8 year's work) along with KL, but it's so inferior that it just had to go. A learning curve, as is the present project. This is going to be very messy! But I do get a bedroom back in return. I don't think I'll be doing much work in the bunker over the weekend! Jeff Well I suppose it had to done sometime, Jeff. If it is of no use any more what's the point of keeping it? Is there anything that's worth saving for use on a future project? I still have my celler layout awaiting dismantling at what is now my daughter's home, it's just the thought of having to put all that stock back into their boxes, taking out all that wiring (DC), lifting the track, taking down the baseboards, disposing of the unwanted stuff. it exhausts me just thinking about it. Now, once you get that room back and Andy wants to dispose of Trebudoc...... Edited February 21, 2013 by Rowsley17D 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted February 21, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 21, 2013 There's quite a few things I can salvage. I've already stripped out the expensive street lighting I fitted. But there are a few things it would be easy to just "junk" and then regret - there is quite a lot of Woodland Scenics Talus (rock bits) - I can probably fill a fair-sized bag with the stuff. Quite a few nice sections of 44mm x 44mm wood - if I can get the boards off. I agree that it's exhausting just thinking about it! But the carpet and everything is coming out too, and my brother can't wait to get in and start decorating!! Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted February 21, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 21, 2013 Jeff - a question about the Cobalts: how did you get confused with the polarity of the frog wire? As I understand it, the way the contacts are laid out, the Cobalt switches the polarity from the input on the left, when the mechanism is switched left, to the input on the right, when the turnout is switched right. Is it because you pre-wired them, and then had some rotated through 180 degrees when you installed them, that the mix up came about? (trying to figure out what when wrong, so i don't do the same thing!) Scott, I've just been and checked the Cobalt wiring. You are absolutely right. The wiring polarity is a mimic of the track it's fitted under, with input 2 (on the left) being the same as the left track polarity and input 3 the same as the right polarity, as you look at the motor. The picture in post 4462 may imply this, but it never "clicked" with me! Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ChrisN Posted February 21, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 21, 2013 There's quite a few things I can salvage. I've already stripped out the expensive street lighting I fitted. But there are a few things it would be easy to just "junk" and then regret - there is quite a lot of Woodland Scenics Talus (rock bits) - I can probably fill a fair-sized bag with the stuff. Quite a few nice sections of 44mm x 44mm wood - if I can get the boards off. I agree that it's exhausting just thinking about it! But the carpet and everything is coming out too, and my brother can't wait to get in and start decorating!! Jeff Jeff, Wow! Relative that want to do stuff for you. Have you got any going spare? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Now, once you get that room back and Andy wants to dispose of Trebudoc...... I already have a bid on Trebudoc so there is always a nice big N Gauge to think about, hahhaaaa N Ticing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium southern42 Posted February 21, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 21, 2013 Yes, you're right. I hadn't thought about it from the angle he suggested. Very sensible - and will probably save me some money!! Jeff But only for the next loco, Jeff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted February 21, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 21, 2013 I already have a bid on Trebudoc so there is always a nice big N Gauge to think about, hahhaaaa N Ticing. I assume you will just sell the layout and not the rolling stock? And what about all the buildings that George built? It'll be sad to see them go. Having said that, at the rate you work you'll be able to build a replacement in a couple of weeks!! I've just wired up a few more droppers. Need a break as being cramped under the boards with a soldering iron for over an hour isn't a good idea. Good job I'm a small chap! Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now