Motive power for Camden Shed

[RonnieS]

Thanks all. Can we pin any of these down to the southern end of the WCML 59-61?

 

45109 was a 9A Longsight loco in 1959, and 45077 at 24E Blackpool Central, so either might have made the trip down.

Alternatives that may be more likely are LFB locos that swapped tenders and gained a riveted one, which is where I was heading with 45299, 45237 or 45454.

 

Iain

See PM.

I found out that one my 5 5s (45005) is wrong too. So if 45108 doesn't suit I can pm you stuff on 45027/46/58 all regular performers on Bristol - Brum trains. All built as short firebox locos but later converted. All rivetted tender. Most of the other early locos so converted are Scottish Region

[RonnieS]

See PM.

I found out that one my 5 5s (45005) is wrong too. So if 45108 doesn't suit I can pm you stuff on 45027/46/58 all regular performers on Bristol - Brum trains. All built as short firebox locos but later converted. All rivetted tender. Most of the other early locos so converted are Scottish Region

A cracking shot of 45108  Posted 21 January 2010 - 16:44

LOSTOCK HALL-BEE LANE  Click here >BR London Midland Region 1950s -80s 

Edited April 19, 2017 by RonnieS

[92220]

The last month or so has been extraordinarily busy. I managed to pop over to Expo EM for a while last weekend and it was good to catch up with a few good people - they know who they are!

 

Thanks to Ronnie and Pete in particular, 45034 will now become 45027. It will need AWS which would have been better to do pre-painting but shouldn't be too difficult.

 

But this new one will now be 45034 instead.

 

I removed the "dome" - which actually was just a top feed cover that looked like a dome I think. Despite the shortcomings of the under-smokebox ledge and the front buffer beam, Hornby did do some careful things with this China built Black 5 body, such as all three basic boilers with differing positions of top feeds, domes, superheater covers, firebox lengths, washout plugs etc. Here is an example I wasn't even aware of. 5055 as built had the top feed pipes outside the boiler cladding and these were put under the cladding at first major overhaul for all of the class with this boiler, so they needed removing. I thought it would be a painstaking hour of filing, scraping and sanding, but the pipes are actually separate fittings. So the body was designed at the outset to represent that small change for the as-built and overhauled locos.

 

247 provided a top feed and dome. The latter required a good deal of fettling and filing to fit and sit properly. They are just placed on the body in the first of these photos.

 

 

 

And, compared to 45033 and 45027-to be

 

 

 

 

Iain

[RonnieS]

 5055 as built had the top feed pipes outside the boiler cladding and these were put under the cladding at first major overhaul for all of the class with this boiler, so they need

 

ed removing. 

 Like you I have a 5055 to "BR-ise" I (THINK) that at least some of the 5s had the prominent pipes late on? File:Black 5 45073 at Rose Grove.jpg 

[farren]

I presume you have this photo already

[92220]

Like you I have a 5055 to "BR-ise" I (THINK) that at least some of the 5s had the prominent pipes late on? File:Black 5 45073 at Rose Grove.jpg

Hi Ronnie,

 

I think - but I'm happy to be told I'm wrong, and have been several times - that is showing the pipes under the cladding. I think from my research that some Stanier locos seem to have pretty flush cladding, and some have a slight bulge. I was fooled by a photo of British Legion and part ruined the model by adding separate top feed pipes when I ought to have had the pipes almost invisible but just a slight bulge. Oh well, that and the too long smokebox, gives me a good reason to build 46170 again.

The original domeless Black 5s certainly had very prominent pipes outside the cladding before they were modified. There are some excellent pics in the LMS Locomotive Profiles book. This book also seems to state that all had the pipes changed at first overhaul.

 

The pipes separate quite easily as per this pic of me removing them from 45033:

 

 

I presume you have this photo already

Hi Farren,

 

I've not seen that one, no, so thanks. It's post AWS but pre overhead wires flashes, so it's fractionally before the one I have of it on the turntable at Camden, and more in the middle of my time period. Will be a good reference for weathering.

 

I've made an effort to make the distinctive cab handrails that had no pillars.

 

 

I jibbed out of doing these on 45033 and the DJH one that has become 45027. I'm going to leave them as they are I think.

 

45034 (mk2!) on its way to completion:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Iain

[cb900f]

Evening Iain,

 

Have you replaced the tall chimney with a shorter one ?

 

Pete

[92220]

Hi Pete,

 

No, I jibbed even on investigating that for all three of 45033, 45034 and 45027. I didn't have an obvious place to get a short chimney (though no doubt I have missed something blindingly simple as usual!). The last of those, the DJH one, would be a particular hassle to change as it's a whitemetal chimney and the loco is painted and lined now.

 

Do I need to remove the steam heat pipes from 45033 and 45027 as well?

 

I could think about removing or altering the mudhole covers I think. But that too may be a step too far as well. I'm actually quite happy that I've got a decent representation of some of the different variations of the Black 5, and there can't be too many domed SFB boilered Black 5s running around on OO layouts. They've all got bigger flaws - footplate lining, sandpipes, front buffer beam-footplate valance interface etc, not to mention being OO in the first place.

 

Iain

[RonnieS]

 Like you I have a 5055 to "BR-ise" I (THINK) that at least some of the 5s had the prominent pipes late on? File:Black 5 45073 at Rose Grove.jpg 

And 

27/08/1967 - Carlisle Kingmoor (12A) MPD. | Stanier Class 5 (hit the > for a 2nd pic)

[92220]

Good photos, Ronnie. I can't enlarge them enough to get enough detail on the feed pipes to be sure, but I don't think they are fully outside the cladding. Half buried and half protruding perhaps? What do you think?

 

Paint shop has begun on Sir William:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Next to get the black on, then Klear. Then lining and numbering, and more Klear, before I add all the detail bits like lubricators and AWS tanks.

 

Iain

[Buhar]

I agree, the outside pipes to the top feed on the originals seem much more prominent than the BR versions. As you suggest, these seem half buried in the cladding.

[RonnieS]

I agree, the outside pipes to the top feed on the originals seem much more prominent than the BR versions. As you suggest, these seem half buried in the cladding.

The thing is there were 842 Black Fives and no two were alike! However comparing Hornby and this one?

 

[92220]

I agree - it's not easy to be unequivocal from photos!

 

Painting is quite a painstaking business. Especilaly if you can only find the odd hour to do it.

 

Masking and satin black sprayed through the airbrush

 

 

 

Quite tricky to do this. Not sure I chose the best way, but it seemed I had to do the red first, because the red isn't a solid enough colour to cover the black.

 

I forgot to take a photo after removing the masking but it's come out reasonably well.

 

Now I can't look at it for at least a week. At least the paint will be dry!

 

Iain

[rob94]

Hello Iain 

 

Regarding the chimneys on your black 5's would the comet chimney LS41 be of any use it is described as black 5 / 8F chimney. I think it is from the 8F kit and can be seen on the old website on a test build, hope this helps.

 

Cheers Robin

Edited June 21, 2017 by rob94

[Brocp]

Hi Iain, hope all is well, any updates lately mate?

[92220]

Hi Iain, hope all is well, any updates lately mate?

Thanks for asking. Sorry, I've been fairly busy but I have a few bits of news.

 

Finally we are building the new house, after what seems like years. Now I think of it, that's because it is 4 years since we first found the plot. So Camden Shed mk2 will have a home, all being well. Exciting times.

 

I've been pushing myself hard to get fit again after the back op in February, and getting back to competitive golf too. Along with the relentless badgering of solicitors and the build, both of these have reduced the time available for modelling, but I've done a couple of things.

 

I've packed a lot of stuff away as I begin to dismantle the layout, so I embarked on a couple of new projects. A Comet Royal Scot (I'm a bit further in with this but I've not taken any photos yet). This runs really nicely - it's so satisfying to see this when you get it right first time. I'm still early in my loco-building career and have much to learn, but it is hugely rewarding.

 

 

 

And this one is a bit different. I mentioned it a couple of weeks ago on the main layout thread, but it's my first effort at a scratchbuilt loco. I figured I had to try something that was not, and never would be, available as a kit or rtr. I felt that, to scratchbuild a Scot, for example, wouldn't be worth it as I could never build one comparable to a Comet or Brassmasters kit, or Hornby body and Comet chassis hybrid. So here we are with a proposed but never built Powell 6P7F 2-8-2. 5'3" drivers, 5'9"+5'9"+5'9" frames. Gibson wheels and universal rods. The springs are from a Comet fret. The Poppy's jig came into its own to jig up the rods. It runs pretty well, but isn't quite smooth enough yet. A bit more fettling and it should be ok

 

 

 

 

 

Things won't be fast, but I'll put up some more when I can.

 

Iain

[Mike G]

Looking good on the Scot. You might want to give some thought to the cover for the pipework to the top feed. Having built this kit (the thread was on RMweb years ago), it is worth thinking about. I don't think that my solution was brilliant...I used paper soaked in superglue. I did experiment but I'd try something different on the next one. Either that or I'd get the Brassmasters boiler - which includes this already cast onto the boiler. I might be mistaken about that, I'd have to fish my spare out if I can find it!

 

Geoff Brewin, before he passed, had designed and produced an upgraded chassis for the Scot in nickel silver, have a look at the Comet site as the chassis allows for it to be sprung...bit late I know, but worth thinking about for the next one. :-)

 

Mike

[Corbs]

Very exciting! I'm a sucker for a 'neverwazza'.

[92220]

Thanks Mike. I have filed and smoothed the white metal representation of the pipe to the top feed, though it doesn't show all that well in my poor quality pictures. It was quite a bit too prominent and angular, I thought. I like the idea of the cover and will give it some thought.

 

This kit was bought secondhand quite cheaply so I used it as it came, largely. I've built one new Comet NS Scot chassis to go under a Hornby body (documented earlier in the thread and pic below)

 

 

 

I've got two more to build in the same vein. I'm afraid with Tony W as my inspiration and tutor, I'm not all that likely to start springing my 4-6-0s and Pacifics. But the NS version is an improvement anyway. This old one, for whatever reason, is particularly smooth, so I hope I will manage to complete it well and do it justice.

 

A couple of pics of glacial progress below. I use a length of brass tube (2mm OD, no idea ID) to locate the piston rod in the cylinder. It seems to add something to the appearance of the motion when there's no slop.

 

 

And then a bit further on:

 

 

Apologies for the utterly filthy appearance: this was before washing off the flux stains. The body doesn't quite sit properly over the cylinders so it's a bit nose-up, but it's only resting on the frames in this pic.

 

This one will be 46145, not a regular Camden visitor as it was on the Midland mostly, but I have a pic of it in 1959-60. Those who know me well will know why I'm going for this one.

 

Iain

[jrg1]

Interesting builds.  What do you use for cleaning up solder stains?

[Jamiel]

Wonderful to see the progress on the locos for Camden shed.

I owe you an apology Iain as I thanked a lot of people for inspiration for finally starting a brass (Comet) kit, and missed you out. The builds you have shown on this thread have been one of my biggest inspirations.

I may have to ask some advice at some point looking at you builds, but I am going to keep working on the model to see how it works out before trying that.

Thank you for sharing the photos of your work.

Jamie.

[davidw]

Those Brits are amongst thr best locos Hornby make.

[Barry O]

The Hornby scot chassis is poor. Just in the throws of one which had disengaged the Moor and gears using a Comet chassis with Gibson wheels.

The Comet kit looks nice but I think my two rebuilt Scots are enough for Chapel en le Frith.

 

Keep up the good work

Baz

[92220]

Interesting builds.  What do you use for cleaning up solder stains?

For flux stains, I try to use a combination of methods that everyone else recommends. Cif, scrubbing, distilled water, white wine vinegar, glass fibre brush - in a different order to that obviously. No real idea whether I'm doing it correctly. It still seems to leave all sorts of stubborn residues and I need to repeat ad nauseam.

 

I did get excited by the idea of an ultrasonic bath but then read that it's only any good for brass and nickel silver as it pits white metal.

 

Iain

[92220]

Wonderful to see the progress on the locos for Camden shed.

 

I owe you an apology Iain as I thanked a lot of people for inspiration for finally starting a brass (Comet) kit, and missed you out. The builds you have shown on this thread have been one of my biggest inspirations.

 

I may have to ask some advice at some point looking at you builds, but I am going to keep working on the model to see how it works out before trying that.

 

Thank you for sharing the photos of your work.

 

Jamie.

Thank you Jamie: very kind. No apology needed whatsoever. I could say exactly the same about your work - the station building and the Crosti in particular.

 

The Hornby scot chassis is poor. Just in the throws of one which had disengaged the Moor and gears using a Comet chassis with Gibson wheels.

The Comet kit looks nice but I think my two rebuilt Scots are enough for Chapel en le Frith.

 

Keep up the good work

Baz

Thanks Baz. I've worked out an easy repair for those Scot chassis, but I'm now addicted to building these Comet ones!

I could realistically build Scots, Jubs, and Pats for some years and never have too many for Camden.

 

Iain