Washout at Dawlish

[Captain Kernow]

breaking news -

 

missing China - southhampton  containership docks at Dawlish due to navigation error.

 

 

well stranger things happen so you never know......

Drat!

 

You've uncovered my real interest in the happenings at Dawlish!

 

A reliable source told me that the Heljan AC Cars railbus and the Garratt were arriving by sea..... unfortunately I couldn't get there in time, before the first load of spoil and ballast was dumped inside...!  

[DonB]

It has been said that the Majority of the coastal defences are essentially Victorian when vast sums of money were being generated from the Empire..

It occurs to me that the reason for them being just "patched-up" over the years is that the Country has been in financial difficulty throughout the 20th century.

Bankrupt after the 14/18 war, followed by the 30's Depression, then bankrupt again after 39/45 war. Later years were devoted (it seems) to road traffic schemes, the NHS. and Council services and we were near bankrupt again recently. 

This is not intended as a political statement or assigning blame, just an observation as to why there has been no money for flood defences over the years. 

[Gruffalo]

Exeter's road system is poor because of the city council (Minority of the transport grip can actually drive 3 out of 12). Signage indicated paris street would only be closed for 12 months although it became permanent. Traffic lights change to red in front of you on clear roads, no emerging traffic from side streets to warrant the change.

No provision for those who work shifts, unable to use public transport when you work the first or last service etc.

Sadly, the attitude of many decision makers in respect of traffic management provides plenty of evidence that they do not fully consider the wider picture. We used to have rural bus services, now we don't so people in villages use private transport to get to the town where the same traffic planners decreed that there should be fewer parking spaces to "dissuade the use of the private car" and those same traffic planners wonder why many small retail businesses close down due to lack of trade with their former properties left empty or taken over by charity shops.

 

Back on topic, reliable public transport is vital for successful economies. Look at European countries' investment in rail and bus systems. Our relentless desire to move potential liabilities into the private sector has invariably made profit for the new owner (showing the doom-mongers' view was wrong) whilst not addressing wider aims of improving the infrastructure, services and mobility of the population. On teh ground, the likes of the NR staff have even more to do and FGW has to field the complaints of the ill-informed. I am very glad I am in neither position.

[CME and Bottlewasher]

I heard Cameron asked (by a TV journo) why his committee/colleagues had rejected requests for funding for PPM for Somerset ( a year back?) and he wouldnt answer - yet as a civic/civil servant shouldnt he be made to answer?

 

I still have a lot of faith in the UK's civil engineers and the railway as an industry, yet they can only work within their budgets and ironically back in the days of CCT and BR/WR/RT budgets, if, in basic terms, too many savings were made then next years budget would be cut still further (I wonder if the same still applies).

 

Perhaps we could adopt that for government - if they save lots and become more efficient they may do themselves out of a job!? (LOL!!).

 

In the dim and distant past I seem to remember being in on meetings (my boss was Senior/Lead buyer for DSW) with ecologists, divers (for new methods of working etc) in terms of shoring up DSW (and for RA Bridge maintenance) etc. some aspects of that work were very complex and needed a myriad of expertise - and strategies - so as to resolve and or anticipate any of the so called global warning issues (as well as the constant PPM of ancient railway assets).

 

The weather keeps going from bad to worse - perhaps global warming has finally arrived and the govt will have to dig deep.

Edited February 12, 2014 by CME and Bottlewasher

[Pacific231G]

Force 12 (Hurricane >63knots ) winds aren't that uncommon around the British Isles and they're not the same as actual Hurricanes, you get F12 in the shipping forecasts several times most winters but they're usually further north. I can't remember the last time I saw one for Lundy which includes the whole Bristol Channel. 

 

At the moment the aerodrome readings are 32G49 for Bristol, 43G61 for Newquay and 31G42 for Exeter. The aerodrome forecasts are shorter term than the shipping forecasts and are forecasting winds this afternoon and evening of 35 Gusting 55knots for all three from 250 degrees so West South West but Newquay is already well above that. At sea those windspeeds would be gale force but the aerodromes are all somewhat inland so would normally have lower winds than the open sea.   Knots to MPH is x  1.15

Just looked up the TAF for Shannon and it's for gusts to 80kts  (92MPH) Blackpool is showing gusts to 70kts (81MPH) for the early evening

[Dagworth]

I heard Cameron asked (by a TV journo) why his committee/colleagues had rejected requests for funding for PPM for Somerset ( a year back?) and he wouldnt answer - yet as a civic/civil servant shouldnt he be made to answer?

 

I still have a lot of faith in the UK's civil engineers and the railway as an industry, yet they can only work within their budgets and ironically back in the days of CCT and BR/WR/RT budgets, if, in basic terms, too many savings were made then next years budget would be cut still further (I wonder if the same still applies).

 

Perhaps we could adopt that for government - if they save lots and become more efficient they may do themselves out of a job!? (LOL!!).

 

In the dim and distant past I seem to remember being in on meetings (my boss was Senior/Lead buyer for DSW) with ecologists, divers (for new methods of working etc) in terms of shoring up DSW (and for RA Bridge maintenance) etc. some aspects of that work were very complex and needed a myriad of expertise - and strategies - so as to resolve and or anticipate any of the so called global warning issues (as well as the constant PPM of ancient railway assets).

 

The weather keeps going from bad to worse - perhaps global warming has finally arrived and the govt will have to dig deep.

Could you please give a clue as to what all these letters stand for?

 

Andi

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Could you please give a clue as to what all these letters stand for?

 

Andi

Hi Andi,

 

Of course I will, apologies -  I did prior (for some) yet this Thread is moving very quickly.

 

Not sure of your railway experience (did you used to be a driver?) so - without teaching anyone to such eggs - here goes (and for the benefit of any others reading this thread);-

 

CCT = Compulsory Competitive Tendering

PPM = Planned Preventative Maintenance

BR = British Rail

WR = Western Region

RT = Railtrack

RA = Royal Albert Bridge

DSW = Dawlish Seawall.

 

DSW & RA Bridge were referred to - back in RT days - by their specific contract number (eg RT1 - ad infinitum), but I cant recall those now.

 

I hope that helps.

 

Kind regards,

 

CME

Edited February 12, 2014 by CME and Bottlewasher

[Keith George]

Could you please give a clue as to what all these letters stand for?

 

Andi

Yes, I agree. I get really fed up trying to decipher when initails etc. are used so much in  a post.

What is the problem with plain English?

 

Keith.

[Bernard Lamb]

Yes, I agree. I get really fed up trying to decipher when initails etc. are used so much in  a post.

What is the problem with plain English?

 

Keith.

Nowt.

But they were explained in the original post by CME.

It seems that this thread is galloping too fast for a lot of people to follow.

Bernard

[trisonic]

Wave heights seemed to have peaked c.3:00pm at over 5 metres.

 

Best, Pete.

[10800]

The weather keeps going from bad to worse - perhaps global warming has finally arrived and the govt will have to dig deep.

 

It's often said that in this country we don't have climate, we just have weather, and that's what we are getting at the moment.  To what extent this is related to climate change (not global warming please) is a matter for debate - but not now and not here of course.

[Southernman46]

What is the problem with plain English?

 

Keith.

Chances are,  it got washed away........................

[Clive Mortimore]

 

Another downside, have you ever tried to read the Railway Modeller with the student and his backpack crushed next to you on a bus seat.

Hi All

 

Sorry to go back to one of my own post but I cannot recall anyone praising the staff from the rail companies and bus companies who have kept a passenger service between Cornwall and west Devon with the rest of the country going.......all be it if it is trying to read a Railway Modeller with the student back pack and its owner sharing the same tiny seat.

[HillsideDepot]

Hi All

 

Sorry to go back to one of my own post but I cannot recall anyone praising the staff from the rail companies and bus companies who have kept a passenger service between Cornwall and west Devon with the rest of the country going.......all be it if it is trying to read a Railway Modeller with the student back pack and its owner sharing the same tiny seat.

 

Indeed Clive well said (OK as someone who worked in the bus industry and is now in Passenger Transport at a local authority I may be biased).

 

I was talking to a mate today who works at First Great Western (and is a modeller) and he summed it up very well "No, we haven't given up, far from it, just we haven't got much railway left to run our trains on!"  

[ZiderHead]

I heard Cameron asked (by a TV journo) why his committee/colleagues had rejected requests for funding for PPM for Somerset ( a year back?) and he wouldnt answer - yet as a civic/civil servant shouldnt he be made to answer?

 

I would guess because any meaningful answer to that would involve a good 30mins of explanation and discussion. Some questions are best asked and answered on Newsnight

[CME and Bottlewasher]

I would guess because any meaningful answer to that would involve a good 30mins of explanation and discussion. Some questions are best asked and answered on Newsnight

Oh me thinks you're being too kind.

 

TPTB  The Powers That Be <sniggers at yet another abrv. oops I did it again LOL, and again..>, have been caught on the hop/with trousers down with the issue of under funding/risk/asset management and coming up to the run-up-to an election, they wont want to be asked awkward questions by the general public.

Edited February 12, 2014 by CME and Bottlewasher

[Pacific231G]

The principal thing that would make this impracticable would br the radical change of appearance of the coast in the vicinity. We're not here just talking about a railway but a whole tourist industry.

 

The local geology is soft and is eroding. Over the past century you have a great change in the appearance of the coastline, the result of which , the sand, has disappeared because of this erosion. If you look at old photos and drawings of the area you can see just how much has been eroded. There is longshore drift away from the area, and any change in the sediment type by dumping would affect far more than the immediate area. The rock is high in iron, which gives it the red colour, and so you'd have to look for similar rock to provide a similar source of sand and gravel. Trouble is, there isn't any to spare, anywhere, and certainly not in the quantities necessary.

Thanks Coombe - that's interesting amd informative.

So the situation of the line was going to get worse anyway even without the long predicted effects of global warming we've been experiencing?

That suggests though that the appearance of the coast in the vicinity is going to be radically changed by natural forces.

 

About the only good things to come out of this seems to have been a greater appreciation of what it takes to maintain our infrastructure - and of course the very satisfying sight of the ghastly Pickles well hoisted by his own petard.

Edited February 12, 2014 by Pacific231G

[Coombe Barton]

So the situation of the line was going to get worse anyway even without the long predicted effects of global warming we've been experiencing?

 

Average sea level has risen by about a foot since the line was built. See http://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/sltrends/sltrends_station.shtml?stnid=170-161

[Kenton]

 

Over a weekend away one of the fastest-moving topics ever seen on this site has resulted in me being bombarded with reply notification emails.

A me2 post, having been down to see for myself the hype of the flooding in Somerset and Dorset. The conclusion being: yes things really are quite bad but you really do have to stand on a hill to actually see it - it affects people but not really many in the whole scheme of things. A local crisis but well and truly over-egged. But it was a nice trip out into the countryside and an excuse to don the wellys. I return on Monday afternoon to the more important but still managed crisis of the Thames. It has taken me all day to catch up on this topic. One of the more interesting discussions for a long time.

 

Dawlish it seems, and without any surprises at all, is being competently managed by the experts at NR. Thanks to CK and others for all the facts on the ground.

[Judge Dread]

Drat!

 

You've uncovered my real interest in the happenings at Dawlish!

 

A reliable source told me that the Heljan AC Cars railbus and the Garratt were arriving by sea..... unfortunately I couldn't get there in time, before the first load of spoil and ballast was dumped inside...!  

Put me down for a BMW motorcycle Herr Kapitän. 

There will be a good drink in it for you.

Try and keep dry.

[Rods_of_Revolution]

It should be pointed out that whilst the amount of CO2 being put into the atmosphere is accelerating, the sea level increase is not accelerating, which would seem to indicate the two are not as closely linked as a wind-farm salesman would tell you; so don't think that being "green" will make any difference to the problems at Dawlish!

 

When the line at Dawlish was built the yearly sea level increases were similar to today, so it was probably understood there would be an increase in problems as time went on. It seems to me that the sea wall route was chosen because it was cheaper in the short term than all the earthworks that would have been required to take the railway across the South Devon banks. Of course, the lessons were learnt and it was proposed to create an avoiding line in the early 1930s, but the war came along just as work was starting on the new route and halted the work.

 

Cheers,

 

Jack

[melmerby]

Average sea level has risen by about a foot since the line was built. See http://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/sltrends/sltrends_station.shtml?stnid=170-161

The problems in the West are compounded by localised sea level rise caused by the (almost) constant strong winds off the Atlantic which has pushed the sea eastwards.

 

Keith

Edited February 12, 2014 by melmerby

[Siberian Snooper]

The forcast for Friday is not good for the good Captian and his crew. It starts off with SE. gales although veering to more SW as the day progresses with another few bucketfulls of rain.

 

Nothing on the news either national or local to say that they have got any of the Dutch pumps up and running.

 

Best of luck CK and your crew.

 

SS

 

edit for wind terminology

Edited February 12, 2014 by Siberian Snooper

[Captain Kernow]

The forcast for Friday is not good for the good Captian and his crew. It starts off with SE. gales although veering to more SW as the day progresses with another few bucketfulls of rain.

 

Nothing on the news either national or local to say that they have got any of the Dutch pumps up and running.

 

Best of luck CK and your crew.

 

SS

 

edit for wind terminology

I don't know about the rest of you, but it's got to the stage now where some of us are absurdly grateful for a day with only moderate winds and the odd shower of rain!!

[Andy Y]

As the topic has become somewhat cyclical or repetitive I'll close it off for now but as we're really appreciative of CK's perspectives I'm happy to update the topic with info on his behalf as and when there's anything substantive.