Pragmatic Pre-Grouping - Mikkel's Workbench

[Worsdell forever]

This sounds like the sort of thing in which Charles R.Dixon might get involved.  We need the full story from Mikkel

 

I'm sure he's feverishly reading through the newspapers and periodicals of the day for all the juicy details and the full story will emerge soon enough. 

[Buhar]

I believe the main reason for GWR horseboxes being exchanged was in the hope of getting better quality ones from the LNWR.  

[Mikkel]

What an excellent storyline, and collectively developed too. It will have to be modelled at some point! Those part built horseboxes in my drawer have hereby been moved higher up the to-do list 

[Compound2632]

I think the SDJR and MR used Westinghouse as well?

 

Vacuum! Following an early flirtation with the Westinghouse brake along side the Pullman cars for the opening of the Settle and Carlisle. In 1875-79 the Midland ran extensive trials with Westinghouse and Smith's vacuum brakes. The Newark brake trials of 1875 had shown a distinct superiority in stopping distance for the air brake but improvements to the vacuum brake improved its performance but critically, it was simpler and hence cheaper to install and maintain and had fewer failures in service. I can't find the reference right now but I believe Clayton, or Johnson and Clayton together, designed the standard vacuum pipe connector that remained in use to the end of vacuum-fitted stock on British Railways.

[Nick Holliday]

Quite a lot of GWR NCCPS was dual-fitted (vacuum and Westinghouse), primarily Horse boxes, some of the Fruits (Y2 and Y3 in particular), some Siphons (O8 and O9, and I think a few O2/O3/O4/O5/O6). This enabled them to interwork with the LBSCR and GER, which was important for horse box traffic (Epsom, Newmarket etc).

 

Not sure when the Westinghouse gear started to appear on GWR NPCCS, possibly 1906 (as a wild guess!). Generally, I think it had been removed by c 1931.

In the absence of a monograph covering the GWR horseboxes, I wonder if the HMRS book on Siphons can shed some light on this. According to it, the early 4 wheeled siphons originally had hand brakes, and the automatic vacuum brake was added in the 1880's.

Presumably the later 6 wheeled siphons, from 1889 onwards, were fitted with the AVB from new, although this is not actually stated, although I can't tell whether the early O2 siphons, dating from 1879, were. In 1896 new siphons were fitted with through pipes for the Westinghouse system, and from 1897 they all appear to have been built with both AVB and Westinghouse gear. From 1903 they began to be fitted with through pipes for train heating, and between 1909 and 1917 most were fitted with either side hand brakes.

[Miss Prism]

Thanks, Nick. That's an informative timeline.

[richbrummitt]

GWRJ issues 76, 78, 79, 81, 82 contain a series of articles by John Lewis on Horseboxes that are as close to the content of a monograph as we have generally available.

[richbrummitt]

I had a chance to read through now and Journal 78 gives dates for through pipes as being mid 1890s and is clear they were not dual braked. The first so built/modified to be dual braked were diagram N8 in 1904-5.

[Mikkel]

I had a chance to read through now and Journal 78 gives dates for through pipes as being mid 1890s and is clear they were not dual braked. The first so built/modified to be dual braked were diagram N8 in 1904-5.

 

Thanks very much for that info, Rich, those issues of GWRJ on horseboxes sound like they're worth having.

 

Meanwhile the news from Farthing Works are a bit underwhelming. The latest 4-planker is now done, and looking rather mundane despite the new floor, buffers and brake gear.

 

 

The low number belies that No. 781 was part of Lot 374, built in 1902 and sporting DC1 brake gear from the outset. I debated whether to add a sheet rail. Some of the 4-plankers were certainly fitted with these later on, and the O5 diagram in Atkins Beard & Tourret features a sheet rail - but I have a suspicion that the diagram stems from 1905 when the wagon index was drawn up. On page 54 of the same book is a picture of a 4-planker showing off the new DC1 brake gear in 1903. It does not feature a sheet rail, and is in the same condition as No. 781.

 

The wagon is in what Miss P has dubbed improved GWR wagon red. I chose a slightly redder shade than normal to suggest that it is fairly recently painted. Here it is again with two other somewhat dull wagons. In fact it's all very boring! But that's the point. The more common wagons I have, the more I can allow myself to throw in a few exciting ones   

 

 

The couplings are temporary until I get around to adding the Sprat & Winkles - a chore I keep putting off!

Edited February 14, 2017 by Mikkel

[Rob Pulham]

 

 

 

Meanwhile the news from Farthing Works are a bit underwhelming. The latest 4-planker is now done, and looking rather mundane despite the new floor, buffers and brake gear.

 

 

Hi Mikkel,

 

I don't think that you are doing yourself enough justice, they look mighty fine from where I'm sat.

[Mikkel]

Hi Mikkel,

 

I don't think that you are doing yourself enough justice, they look mighty fine from where I'm sat.

 

Thanks Rob, I'm happy with them, I was just reflecting on the fact that a lot of the most common wagons weren't really all that exciting to look at - and when you build a new one it looks pretty much like the last one 

[Miss Prism]

"You can't have too many opens."

[Craigw]

Thanks Rob, I'm happy with them, I was just reflecting on the fact that a lot of the most common wagons weren't really all that exciting to look at - and when you build a new one it looks pretty much like the last one 

 

We all have a different perspective on things. I actually find the things like open wagons and vans exciting. It is the exotics that leave me cold. so please, keep going with the mundane - and they look lovely.

 

I started cutting a Ratio iron Mink up the other day to make it look more like what it is meant to be. After looking at the pile of pieces to reassemble, I might suggest to Bill Bedford that an accurate iron Mink would be good!

 

Regards,

 

Craig W

[Mikkel]

We all have a different perspective on things. I actually find the things like open wagons and vans exciting. It is the exotics that leave me cold. so please, keep going with the mundane - and they look lovely.

 

I started cutting a Ratio iron Mink up the other day to make it look more like what it is meant to be. After looking at the pile of pieces to reassemble, I might suggest to Bill Bedford that an accurate iron Mink would be good!

 

Regards,

 

Craig W

 

Thanks Craig, and interesting to hear your experience with the Ratio Iron Mink. After seeing a couple of ABS ones going for a high price on ebay recently, I thought it might be the Ratio way from now on. But a Mousa Models one would be better!

[Miss Prism]

Run out of Provender wagons? Got too much hay to shift? Got too many boring opens? Want to show off a bit more 'Swindon Improved Wagon Red'?

 

No problem:

 

 

(Culham, c 1910)

 

 

 

 

[Mikkel]

Oooh, very interesting. Some 4-plank wagons in there I see. No wonder the GWR developed higher sides eventually!

 

But wait, 1910? I don't recall seeing the rh small GWR livery so late before. And are the wagons all standard types, not sure about that.

[Miss Prism]

But wait, 1910?

 

circa 1910, Mikkel. (I think we need to be a little bit sceptical about what the postcard sellers sometimes say.)

[Northroader]

Agreed, a load of fodder makes a very useful thing to have around. A bit earlier than 1910, and the wagon might be a bit wide.. (sorry about thecouplers, a bright idea due for a change)

[Mikkel]

Very nice Northroader, a real period piece, lettering, dates and everything. I bet it ran better too, being wide. Now why didn't anyone pick up on that idea :-)

 

I'm trying to figure out how the coupling works, especially the short left part of the fork?

[Northroader]

The l.h. Part doesn't do anything, it's just fixed to the underside of the wagon. I was just trying out a really silly idea, bg trains on a minimum radius, which the link allowed me to do. I don't have a bg line right now, and I'll put the couplings back to something rather more conventional when and if I get round to doing something simple later on. No, I agree with Miss Prism, loads of fodder do make a really good item on a goods train. I think mine has started to moult, though!

[Penlan]

Mikkel, the only trouble with say a 9' w/b wagon on a 7' wide track is stability, they tend to 'twist' a bit as they go along.

 

Meanwhile, 'Fodder', I have spent a couple of hours trying to find two photo's I have of Bark being loaded at Bucknell Station on the Central Wales Line, which although LNWR, I seem to recall the wagons were GWR.   They would have been sheeted over too.

No joy, where can the photo's be ?

 

The Bark was collected into high ricks in the Goods Yard, prior to loading.  The bark was used in the tanning industry.

Edited February 18, 2017 by Penlan

[MikeOxon]

Run out of Provender wagons? Got too much hay to shift? Got too many boring opens? Want to show off a bit more 'Swindon Improved Wagon Red'?

 

No problem:

 

loadsahay.png

 

(Culham, c 1910)

As well as Mikkel's suspicions about the date, I'm not so sure that these wagons are red.  I feel that the pre-panchromatic film of those days would have made red look darker than these.  Of course, it may all be down to dust from the hay.

[Miss Prism]

As well as Mikkel's suspicions about the date, I'm not so sure that these wagons are red.  I feel that the pre-panchromatic film of those days would have made red look darker than these.  Of course, it may all be down to dust from the hay.

 

All those things could be true, Mike. It was the motley collection of somewhat overloaded opens, characteristic of an era, that took my fancy, rather than trying to identify a particular date.

 

And we don't really know when the last red-liveried wagons could be seen.

[Compound2632]

As well as Mikkel's suspicions about the date, I'm not so sure that these wagons are red.  I feel that the pre-panchromatic film of those days would have made red look darker than these.  Of course, it may all be down to dust from the hay.

 

... and general wear and tear taking the shine off the paint.

[BG John]

As well as Mikkel's suspicions about the date, I'm not so sure that these wagons are red.  I feel that the pre-panchromatic film of those days would have made red look darker than these.  Of course, it may all be down to dust from the hay.

I've lost track of the colour debate, but didn't I read somewhere that the red become grey as it aged? So if this photo is some years after the end of red wagons, but they are still in pre 1904 livery, perhaps they were quite grey by then.