dogbox321

Where have I got to...... Well I've established that the staff was kept at Tavistock Yard, and that as per my thoughts, wagon couplings did have to be loosened to go to Cattewater, so expect this was done in Friary! There are two cab rides on You Tube - one going from Friary to Mount Gould, and one Friary to the Cattewater Branch - unfortunately only to the stop blocks past EMR's loading point, but at least it's something! Oh, and I've invested in a Bachmann Freightliner twin-set, as the start for a possible Freightliner Service. (As per photo of a 5 car set in the area!) Regards, C.

Has anyone tried to re-number/rename an IC version. Just asking as 90005's name is higher than most other IC' 90's, hence wondering how difficult the names are to remove, and whether it can be done without damaging the Intercity Dark Grey below it. Thanks in anticipation, Best Regards, Christopher.

I thought GBRf did use some at some stage, via a freight wagon leasing company, but cannot be 100% on that. I know they certainly tried it because I went to Multi-Modal (just as a visitor, with no logistics company affiliation) the year that they had an IDA on show, and after perusing the wagon, and being pretty impressed, I pointed out, the one thing it did not have for intermodal traffic - they said well GBRf, Freightliner and DRS have all trialed the wagon, and haven't picked it up. I then told them why it should, and gave them reasons as to why no-one may have identified it. Then a former Senior Manager from Trainload Freight and EWS, joined in and said, "He's absolutely right, it should, he knows what he's talking about!" They went pretty quiet and eventually said well we suppose we can add one if we need to! So GBRf have certainly used one, but I don't know for what traffic flow. If only Goodrington Container Terminal had come about, they may have been running down to Devon! Regards, C.

Agree, good wagon - but a few bits. I had a black PRA...... Think the largest one, and I'm so surprised its not been mentioned in the thread, is the leaf springs. I am assuming its the same manufacturer that DJ/FTG used on the SPA, because on that they were a really basic moulding. On the PRA they are better, but much more of a "representation", than a fully detailed leaf spring, which the Cemflo from another manufacturer has beautifully executed (See photos below). Printed "Cleats" info, also looses a little definition, on lowest 2 lines, but otherwise really nice paint job. There are a couple of other things, which are really minor, although when I first placed it on a piece of track, I did think the wagon "appears" to sit slightly high regarding the buffer height. Which when placed with a Bachmann Mk2, and Class 47 it does, but with the Revolution TEA, its buffers sits slightly below those of the TEA. So who who knows. Maybe it is right? Regards, C.

They are a nice wagon, well painted and well detailed, and I suppose in some ways they are niche, but they don't really have a wow factor for a 2 axle wagon at nearly £40. Even the lamp iron is moulded in the chassis, and not a separate fitting, nor does it have sprung buffers. They are a nice wagon, but I just think for nearly £40 a piece, its a top end price, and the specification should be up there too. Regards, C.

Hi, think the first thing is "clarity" on which version is being produced. Additionally, if there are two vehicles - why not offer a double pack? (Possibly with a small financial incentive to order a pair?) Second thing - looking at the CAD's - dosent the huge grooves/holes to allow the flask cover to move, make it more of an "expensive" toy, rather than a model of finesse. Oxfords 45foot's have a similar issue, enabling them to connect to he reachstacker. I've not seen any of the Roco wagons with DCC operated roofs, but surely the mechanism is more refined than that. Otherwise, I would suggest 2 chassis - one with the groove for DCC, and one without for DC/those who don't want the grooves and mechanism?. Maybe it could still be operated manually on small side runners, which some manufacturers did many years ago. Best Regards, C.

Yes, but have you ever had a gut feeling? .....and been right? LOL!

Would probably have a rake of Heathrow tanks if they do the same as they did with N Gauge. The real "gem", would be to alter the tooling for the bitumen wagons.......... Regards, C.

I think some have slightly miss-interpreted the issue I was attempting to make. Namely my usual stockist didn't get what they ordered, he said most stockists had been cut back. Therefore Hornby could not even supply what traders had pre-ordered, hence loss of sales, traders being peed off because they have lost sales, and modellers not being impressed by loosing out! Plus, with their Network Rail stock, always selling well - it would suggest perhaps that they didn't want to fully fund a large production run! Likewise - I know that "smaller" production runs are a necessity. I recall many years ago having a Hornby set of 5000 units that sold out in no time, and long gone are those days! But companies still need to produce enough to satisfy there customers - the traders. Hence me saying - they would have been better to have done a full production run in 2020, than do a half-hearted job of a minimal order, announced in June 2019 and delivered a couple of months later! Fortunately, I have a good selection of the earlier Network Rail Mk3 coaches. If they happened to do a further run (in 2020 - I could quite easily see a pack of N/R Power Cars in the current livery forming part of the program, then they would likely need to do some more Mk3's to accompany them), then I would have some. But otherwise, I will end up spending that money on models I want from another company. Regards, C.

Hi All, whilst I can appreciate that Hornby do not wish to keep vast amounts of stock, surely it would be a good practice to produce a decent amount, so people can actually purchase stock. Just looking at the R4909. R4910, R4911's announced in June. Network Rail Mk3's have sold out in there previous guises, and it seems these have pretty much hit the shelves and gone! Hornby have lost revenue from the reduced sales by not producing enough, modellers will have problems sourcing them and it will damage their view of Hornby, plus with there "expertise", should this really be occuring? They should know how many previous units they have been able to sell, and forecast likely demand. I wonder if they will do another batch? The R4393 were shown as sold out, but now as a pre-order? Alternatively, if they cannot budget to produce a sufficient quantity to satisfy demand, then it would probably be better to avoid the "farce" and produce it the year after. Its really unfortunate, that a company this is trying to turn itself around is actually restricting its own sales in this way! Likewise, how can modellers support the brand if they cannot buy the stock? Regards, C.

Hi, thanks. That was my "thought". Hence I wondered if anyone else had a copy lurking at the back of their computers hard drive! He said on this forum that he was happy for others to see the work, and it's amazing what you can detect from a photograph (Like just finding out about the staff section, in the corner of a photo!). Hence I'd really like to see a copy, if there was half a chance! This is exactly why I am asking the questions now, as if I ever get to do my model railway "Magnum-opus", it will form part of it, and as time passes more of the lines history will disappear. Plus its very interesting! Anyone with it - please feel free to PM me! Regards, C.

Does anyone have a copy of the works of Mr R A Watson - he did a "piece" on the railways of Plymouth, and said he would forward to anyone who would be interested, who PM'ed him. Unfortunately, his last visit to RMWeb was February 9th 2014, so would not expect a PM to him would be of much benefit. Regards, C.

Hi, thanks. Just had a "study of the photos, and it does answer one question - train operation to that part, was via a Staff Token (I am assuming it was a single portion and not split!)- so would that be from Friary? Would that also be for the Scrap working and other parts of the line? If you do still have the extra photographs, then I would really appreciate seeing them. I will PM you. I wonder if with that curvature, instanters had to be put in there extended position, and any screw couplings loosened to negotiate that S bend? Otherwise may have been buffer lock paradise! Regards, C.

Just looked at this layout - very nice buildings, don't really show the clay drying process. I am assuming the building are a type of L shape, with the Furnace/Kiln on the Right, with clay then moved to the storage areas, ready for loading into the wagons at the front. Would be nice to see a plan view of a clay works showing what happens and where. Along with any photos showing the finer points. I had seen on a video in the past, where China Clay is extracted using water, but that then must be a nightmare to move, and process, unless the customer wants it in slurry form, as per the Irvine flow (which is where it was discussed). Likewise - before mainstream electricity - which I am expecting is used in any kilns/dries now, then prior to that was it coal? I assume that was rail hauled in? Then that needs sidings, unloading etc. The more you dig, the more questions it opens up, as to what goes on behind that building which on a layout shows china clay in a storage shed waiting to be loaded into a wagon! Regards, C.

I would partially agree with your sentiments, but at the same time would also say that not many people are aware of the "science" behind the workings, and to term a well known phrase - "The devil is in the detail". Personally, I do not know how the dries worked. The anatomy of a China Clay works would be interesting, including how the dries work, what the walls behind your rendition of the clay works are etc.. (Assume storage, but surely that would make it even wetter? Plus then, wouldn't the area then be nothing more than a white sludge?) Like I say - I don't know because I have not been closely associated to the china clay industry. Plus in modern times, health and safety would not permit you near the workings. As an analogy, and as possibly some consolation - the same happens with locomotive depots in the modern era! Someone had started a fantastic model based on Burngullow, but then broke it up! The attraction of China Clay, is surely a reasonable variety of wagons, some prototypical small rakes, people go to the area on holiday and popular locomotive variety - Class 25's, Class 37's, Warships, Westerns, Class 47, Class 50 and even Class 60/Class 66 in recent times. Regards, C.

Hi ya - thank. Just had a look - so I take it Signals 316 & 367 are on the speedway then. Just looking at 5C95: So I take it the carriage wash is beyond 365 Signal? And after returning through Mount Gould Jcn., will either go into the shed for maintenance, or into the HST sidings? There must be quite a few conversations to get trains in and out. I.e. Laira to tell the Signaller, ready for the train to go to the washer, and then afterwards to tell the signaller its ready to go from the washer, and then for Laira to say where they want the train to go/give acceptance for the train to enter the depot! Regards, C.

Hi, thank you very much for many of the responses so far, and I am sincerely sorry for lack of replies - unfortunately I have had lots on at work, the internet has been down, 2 kids, moaning wife and lots of other things on the go, balance. I have also been burning the candle on the model railway, as I wanted my 5 year old to be able to see it, and operate it during the school holidays. Unfortunately that has been and nearly gone, so am hoping to be able to run something in the October half term, so apart from the odd prusal of RMweb - otherwise I can look on it for hours, I disciplined myself this week to use my free time (and time I should be asleep!) to work on the model railway! Last night/this morning it were 3am! Picture of the latest work below (Fuel point and run-round loop)! When I looked a few days ago, some people had sent some replies, but to do them justice I wanted to have good look at the replies, and try to work out what is appropriate, how things were done etc., before replying, as the least I can do is understand what people are discussing, and discounting items such as the Exeter Waterloo ECS's, which as per one of the responses is outside my time period, but interesting all the same, and possibly useful for Bachmann 42's and 43's, and I would imagine that was before Laira's current depot and the speedway!? Like I say - my main period of interest is 1980's - current, but I find the whole area fascinating, and something that is hard to find out about, and will get harder and harder over time. Re6/6 - nice photo at the end of the line, but do you know the operation in order to get there? One of the biggest questions is what the speedway is used for and its operation - is it's primary use for the use of traffic passing Laira to get into Friary/Cattlewater and effectively part of the national infrastructure, or as part of the depot? So does the likes of the EMR working use this, or have to pass through Laira Depots sidings. Likewise, does it need authority from Laira Depot to use it, plus did a train such as the EMR have to reside into Tavistock, to await permission to proceed. Likewise upon arrival at Friary - is it then signalled by stop boards, GWR section C working, a token arrangement or what? Are there any propelling moves involved too? Best Regards, C. p.S. Never been called the dogs before, but I have been called worse!

Hi thanks. In a couple of photos I have seen, there were Freightliner 30 foot Containers on site, so perhaps they came off that. Just done a quick web browse the train did not last very long, but it did stop at Plymouth! Suppose on top of that is - whether the whole train went into Friary, or whether there was a trip working to get the wagons in and out? Paul Bartlett has a photo of a 20' on a lorry, with a crane loading/unloading it at Par, and a photo of a 20' at Friary. I just find the area very interesting, as to what went where. Regards, C.

Would have thought they would have mainly worked in trains separately, for different locations. PGA's need discharge equipment, but the box wagons need a grab to unload! Regards, C.

Would imagine thats most of the problem. Your not going to sell stuff when everyone knows a few weeks down the line its going to end up on the bargain table. Better to price sensibly and shift it than at full RRP, have it sit there, and then have to clear it! Been in Waterloo branch a few times - and they don't have any clearance, (Unfortunately!) Regards, C.

Hi all, I’ve always had an interest in railways in the Devon area (as eventually I would like to do a model railway based on the area), but one thing I have never really had much of an understanding of, is the operations around Laira, Plymouth Friary and Cattlewater. We recently went on holiday, and I saw the little that remains at Friary, and it probably raised more questions than answers. Hence the start of this thread. For example: – ECS’s for the Waterloo Exeter trains. Where did they go when they reached Laira? Did they go straight through the HST sidings to the washing area, or via the speedway? And at that point, did the mainline loco change ends or did a shunter take over? Likewise, I seem to recall on the odd occasion seeing some of the coaches in Lipson sidings. But again, was this normal practice? Did they go via the speedway and did the locomotive do the move, or a resident Class 08? -Mount Gould Jcn/ Train Washing – Were trains washed on approach from Laira, or as they headed back into Laira? I have seen some information stating that to run round locomotives went to Friary, but was this always the case, did Friary get used to hold stock in busy times -awaiting a route through either the carriage washer, or even just to get the stock back into the main Laira Depot? -TPO Stock, I “recall” was always stabled in the HST sidings, but again to leave or arrive, either the mainline locomotive would need to either run round, or have a shunter attached, unless there were instructions permitting a propelling move? -Fuel Tanks - Movements to Laira from Tavistock. I would expect it was a Tavistock shunter that took the Wagons to Laira? -Freights for Cattlewater/Friary – the process/route involved. For starters did they use the speedway? Did trains go direct from the mainline, or were they always tripped from Tavistock Yard? Was there any form of signalling, token’s etc.? -Friary, for starters, I would really like to see track plan(s) for the 1970’s – 90’s. I have seen a few photos on the internet, but they don’t really “fit” together. I recall me and my father going past the gates and a stone wall around a freight depot in Plymouth, on a detour trying to get from Laira to the station! Plus there being some of the 1980's Red/Grey railfreight wagons in there. I have also seen some photos with the likes of the old Red/Grey Freightliner 30’ Containers in there! So did FFA/FGA’s ever make it to there? Likewise – what were the main commodities that Friary were used for – I have seen a couple of Photos of mineral Industries PCA’s, but weren’t there also a Cement Terminal at Cattlewater? Did any freight come from Cornwall to there, and go Lipson - Mount Gould? Thanks for any information in anticipation. I hope this thread can be used to illustrate the operations in this area of Plymouth. Best Wishes, C.

Best thing is to take a couple of models in there to sell! With those sort of sell on prices, you should a fair price! Call their bluff! Good thing with Lima is its pretty robust. Not like newer stuff which when it breaks, you struggle to get bits for! With things like Bachmann 37's selling at like £130-£150, then can quite easily see there being some demand for more basic models at a reasonable price! Regards, C.

Hi All, would appreciate a little advice/experience of others. I have started the process rolling, on attempting to get a claim in with the LLoyds Credit Card that I paid for: 3 x £30 deposits and a 1 x £30 deposit. I explained that these were deposits for a product totalling £120 each, and that the length of time was due to the processes involved in the manufacture of model railway products, and that it was only in June that the company went into administration, and it was only at that time that it became apparent that the product would not be delivered. I have received a response (they do not even mention the £30 deposit), saying that they cannot help me for the following reasons: -Due to the time since the transaction was made -Having reviewed this transaction under Section 75 liability, we are unable to consider your claim Just wondering if they are trying to fob me off (I think so). They have not asked me even for any invoices, data regarding DJM etc. Would the correct recourse be to advise them that I could not advise them earlier, as the company was providing updates and that until the company went into liquidation, it was the first occasion that I could reasonably be aware of the failure to receive the products that were ordered and secured with a deposit. Therefore the "clock" should run from this point in time. I suppose the other point would be - How could I "reasonably" make any claim earlier, as if I had requested a claim back just before the time limit, then you would have refused it because the product and business was a going concern. Any advice and suggestions most welcome, as would like to put the best argument to them to consider. Many Thanks in anticipation, Best Regards, C.

Any plans for the "picture" liveries?