Manor Announced for 00

[Welchester]

11 hours ago, thetrains said:

? Surely Cheltenham spa, stood under them tha signals enough times in mid sixties.

 

Yes. Cheltenham Lansdown (the Midland station), as distinct from Malvern Road or St James GWR Stations. By the time we moved to Cheltenham in 1966 only Lansdown Station was left.

[McC]

1 hour ago, Hal Nail said:

Those photos don't really do either of them any favours: The driving wheels look huge in the top one. I'm no PR expert but it is odd the number of times manufacturers release photos that make their prospective models look far worse than they actually are.

 

No doubt an optical illusion caused by the whitewalls, as both are identical in diameter. (The acc model is also a decorated sample, production samples are expected in about 8 weeks or so)

[David Stannard]

1 hour ago, Hal Nail said:

Those photos don't really do either of them any favours: The driving wheels look huge in the top one. I'm no PR expert but it is odd the number of times manufacturers release photos that make their prospective models look far worse than they actually are.

 

 As noted by someone else given the tyres are blackened on the Accurascale model the wheels seem to look bigger, also the two pictures are not exactly scaled so there is a bit of give and take.

[Dunsignalling]

8 minutes ago, Hal Nail said:

I know, i wasnt commenting on the model. my point was it seems odd using a photo that doesnt really represent your model, given it will influence peoples buying decision.

I'd think the lower of the two pictures is what will have the biggest influence on people's buying decisions!

 

Whether the wheels are blackened or bulled up as on some preserved prototypes is somewhere off the bottom of my list of concerns.....

 

John

Edited May 26, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[rembrow]

10 hours ago, David Stannard said:

 

 

 My mouse is moving very close to the cancel button with this one, I had originally ordered the Accurascale model at the same time but after concerns of it being able to negotiate #3 Radius Curves with the cylinders intact I cancelled it, it's going to be a rather ironic twist to yet again pre ordering the Accurascale model whislt cancelling the Dapol one. 

I wouldn't make any judgements based on the comparison image, as the two original images are not taken with the models in the same plane. The lower photo of the Dapol model, is not taken straight on at the mid point, but from above the midpoint, evudenced by the front running plate and buffer beam being higher at the rear. This will have distorted the smokebox, boiler, firebox and cab in comparison to the Acc model. The wheels of the Dapol model look ok, as photos of the prototype show manors with wide height tyres on main and bogie wheels, enhanced by scalloped (recessed) spokes. Dapol has already represented this on the mogul and prairie models, so expect the manors to be the same.

[David Stannard]

2 minutes ago, rembrow said:

I wouldn't make any judgements based on the comparison image, as the two original images are not taken with the models in the same plane. The lower photo of the Dapol model, is not taken straight on at the mid point, but from above the midpoint, evudenced by the front running plate and buffer beam being higher at the rear. This will have distorted the smokebox, boiler, firebox and cab in comparison to the Acc model. The wheels of the Dapol model look ok, as photos of the prototype show manors with wide height tyres on main and bogie wheels, enhanced by scalloped (recessed) spokes. Dapol has already represented this on the mogul and prairie models, so expect the manors to be the same.

 

 I know the photos are at different angles, what killed the Dapol version off with me is the chimney, the fact that it does not look anything like it should with the taper.

[Ian Hargrave]

A model should be judged on its individual merits and not by a comparison. Thus the images released by Dapol seen here on previous posting or the identical available for viewing on Rails website are appropriate. As a caveat,the current shape issue on the Dapol Manor was flagged on this thread months ago and appears now to be perpetrated in the production model.

 

[Harlequin]

I think I said in another thread recently that Dapol's policy of disengagement from their customers might bite them back one day.

 

[Dunsignalling]

1 hour ago, rembrow said:

I wouldn't make any judgements based on the comparison image, as the two original images are not taken with the models in the same plane. The lower photo of the Dapol model, is not taken straight on at the mid point, but from above the midpoint, evudenced by the front running plate and buffer beam being higher at the rear. This will have distorted the smokebox, boiler, firebox and cab in comparison to the Acc model. The wheels of the Dapol model look ok, as photos of the prototype show manors with wide height tyres on main and bogie wheels, enhanced by scalloped (recessed) spokes. Dapol has already represented this on the mogul and prairie models, so expect the manors to be the same.

But, in my estimation, whatever distortion has been introduced will favour, rather than disadvantage, the subject when viewed from that angle.

[MikeParkin65]

14 hours ago, 57xx said:

Side by side comparison:

Bearing in mind these are models both look like Manors to me. Agreed the Dapol one which is apparently nearer to being on sale has some apparent errors but to my eyes at least no show stoppers. As it is I have an Accurascale version on pre order but I wouldnt rule out a Dapol if the right combination of features came along. Wheel tyres are an easy thing to paint (I usually just use a permanent black marker pen to be honest) and an aftermarket chimney is a quick fix if that supplied offends.  

[Ian Hargrave]

38 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Bearing in mind these are models both look like Manors to me. Agreed the Dapol one which is apparently nearer to being on sale has some apparent errors but to my eyes at least no show stoppers. As it is I have an Accurascale version on pre order but I wouldnt rule out a Dapol if the right combination of features came along. Wheel tyres are an easy thing to paint (I usually just use a permanent black marker pen to be honest) and an aftermarket chimney is a quick fix if that supplied offends.  

And there you post some essential truth. To you and I imagine to many modellers it “looks like” a Manor.Not all modellers belong to RMWEB (many if not most don’t) and even some who do won’t care about an indiscretion in design they can’t recognise and thus don’t give a stuff about. Besides which,Dapol are first past the post for an eagerly anticipating public .

As Miss Prism who is an exceptionally knowledgeable and respected forum member has posted above,difficulties at their production end and a certain haste to get the models here ahead of Accurascale  may have inadvertently caused what seems to me and others here plain wrong in plain sight. It’s a pity and I have every sympathy for Dapol who may have been caught between a rock and a hard place.  Despite all,they will sell. 

 

 

[Ian Hargrave]

2 hours ago, Harlequin said:

I think I said in another thread recently that Dapol's policy of disengagement from their customers might bite them back one day.

 

Hindsight is a wonderful thing and in fairness you’re probably right. There are other factors at play here I think. One being the current production status in China and another the imminence of the competition 

[jamieb]

I realise I'm probably in the minority here but I think the Accurascale one looks a bit chunky in the boiler,to me one of the most noticeable differences a Manor has amongst the GWR 460s ,is the smaller boiler,at a slightly steeper taper than its bigger kin 

[7007GreatWestern]

"difficulties at their production end and a certain haste to get the models here ahead of Accurascale  may have inadvertently caused what seems to me and others here plain wrong in plain sight".

 

Personally, I suspect the problems with the Dapol model go back much further than that. Accurascale's tooling was derived from a laser scan of 7808 preserved at the Great Western Society, Didcot, in addition to engineering drawings. Did Dapol actually physically scan a prototype locomotive or did their toolmakers rely on works drawings alone?

 

To my eye, in addition to the exaggerated slope of the firebox and the tapered chimney, the coning of the boiler barrel is also too pronounced on the Dapol model.

 

I take absolutely no pleasure at all in making these criticisms - I greatly appreciate what Dapol have done for the GWR modeller in both 4mm and 7mm. For me however, the Accurascale model is streets ahead....

 

 

 

 

[The Stationmaster]

It's difficult to be certain from the photos because of the lighting of them but the safety valve casing on the Dapol model looks as if it might be too high.  The top of the safety valves - which in turn are higher than the casing - were below the level of the top of the chimney and several inches below the centre height of the cab.

[Hilux5972]

I emailed Dapol to cancel my order and stated the reason why due to the body shape. Someone emailed back and asked why. I returned the email explaining why I wasn’t happy with the shape and that I was not the only one who felt that way. 

[57xx]

2 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

It's difficult to be certain from the photos because of the lighting of them but the safety valve casing on the Dapol model looks as if it might be too high.  The top of the safety valves - which in turn are higher than the casing - were below the level of the top of the chimney and several inches below the centre height of the cab.

 

Already alluded to this 2 days back:

On 24/05/2022 at 20:23, 57xx said:

It's hard to tell accurately as the two side on shots are at different angles, but it does appear the Dapol model has a steeper slope to the boiler cone and firebox. However... from crude measuring up against the drawing in GWR Engines, the Dapol one is more representative given the level of the top of the cab along with the mudhole at the top/front of the firebox and bottom edge of the safety valve. However, however, The Accurascale looks more representative of the official photo (albeit at yet another angle).

 

Run a ruler across from to bottom edge of the cab roof and it soon becomes very apparent the Dapol safety valve is sitting higher and the taper of the firebox is greater.

 

Edited May 26, 2022 by 57xx

[57xx]

12 hours ago, Hilux5972 said:

I cancelled mine after seeing the side by side views of both models. Whichever one is more correct to the drawings, the Dapol one just LOOKS wrong. That’s the deciding factor for me above all else. 

 

I'm considering cancelling mine after doing the comparison, but will have to argue the toss of a "non-refundable" deposit first. When side by side the differences are a lot easier to spot and the Dapol model is, sadly, the loser.

[57xx]

7 hours ago, David Stannard said:

 As noted by someone else given the tyres are blackened on the Accurascale model the wheels seem to look bigger, also the two pictures are not exactly scaled so there is a bit of give and take.

 

Correct, I tried to get them the same size and ended up using cab dimensions as something easy to measure, resulting in the Dapol pic looking smaller overall. Given they are also taken at different angles, it also makes the job harder and the intention was more for people to make a visual comparison of detail than checking scale sizes.

[Michael Hodgson]

I'm no expert on the finer points of GW locos but they both look like Manors to me. 

The choice seems to be down to how well they run (which we don't yet know) and the price difference.

[adb968008]

20 hours ago, 57xx said:

Side by side comparison:

mixed feelings on both there.

Top one I dont like the tyre rims around the wheel, but the rods look much finer.

 

Bottom one I prefer the tyres, and the axle/wheel join, but only if assuming the tyres will be darkened. However the join of the rear connecting rod is much nicer, but the rod is chunkier.

Top one wins on Chimney (that join on the bottom one takes me back a few decades).

 

interesting to note the firebox plug arrangements of both, and the cladding strap around the centre firebox. Also cab side number positions are different.

 

They both look pretty stunning on the detail. Were really spoilt for choice.

 

 

[Miss Prism]

[57xx]

15 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

interesting to note the firebox plug arrangements of both, and the cladding strap around the centre firebox. Also cab side number positions are different.

 

I noticed the differing washout plugs too, again by referencing GWR Engines it looks like one manu looking at a real loco and the other using the GA.

 

Re the cladding straps, that is just an artefact of different angles the pics were taken. The strap joiners (if that is indeed what you are referring to) are clearly visible at this angle.

[Ian Hargrave]

22 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

mixed feelings on both there.

Top one I dont like the tyre rims around the wheel, but the rods look much finer.

 

Bottom one I prefer the tyres, and the axle/wheel join, but only if assuming the tyres will be darkened. However the join of the rear connecting rod is much nicer, but the rod is chunkier.

Top one wins on Chimney (that join on the bottom one takes me back a few decades).

 

interesting to note the firebox plug arrangements of both, and the cladding strap around the centre firebox. Also cab side number positions are different.

 

They both look pretty stunning on the detail. Were really spoilt for choice.

 

 

 
Stunning detail as opposed to overall impression I take your meaning to be ?  Spoiled would be an appropriate word to use in this case…..but not for choice.  Sorry.

 

 

[adb968008]

1 minute ago, Ian Hargrave said:

 
Stunning detail as opposed to overall impression I take your meaning to be ?  Spoiled would be an appropriate word to use in this case…..but not for choice.  Sorry.

 

 

It’s better than the last offering.

 

but agree we are spoiled.

Theres enough detail there to make me happy but given how “bespoke” these offerings are becoming, it’s no longer about buy one and renumber, but wait until the one you want has been made.

 

I think the paint job will be the clincher in the battle of aesthetics, and consider cost when it comes to performance. 
 

unless of course one of them makes a big clanger…