GWR 4 Plank Open (O21)

[Wickham Green too]

17 hours ago, Craigw said:

...., I am hoping that the Rapido 4 plank wagon ... includes an optional Tarp mechanism for us to fit. .....

The S.E.C.R. version included in certain recent models was a direct 'borrowing' of the Swindon one - so I'd expect it to appear when appropriate !

Edited April 3, 2022 by Wickham Green too

[rapidoandy]

12 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

The S.E.C.R. version included in certain recent models was a direct 'borrowing' of the Swindon one - so I'd expect it to appear when appropriate !

Unfortunately they were not a direct borrow. Certainly the design is but its actually different in size.

 

Sadly the SECR one does not fit on the 4 plank and the extra moulds required to make the extra parts were beyond the remit for the project on this occasion.

 

Andy

[Craigw]

42 minutes ago, rapidoandy said:

Unfortunately they were not a direct borrow. Certainly the design is but its actually different in size.

 

Sadly the SECR one does not fit on the 4 plank and the extra moulds required to make the extra parts were beyond the remit for the project on this occasion.

 

Andy

 

Andy,

 

I must say that is particularly disappointing and if it was beyond the design remit you should be reconsidering. With wagons available in pre 021 condition the tarp support is essential. A glance at any photos would show just how many of the 4 plank wagons were fitted with this.

 

Regards,

 

Craig W

[rapidoandy]

Hi Craig,

 

We did look at it but after we discovered it was smaller than the SECR one it posed a problem. The 4 plank project was considered based on the fact it only required one extra mould for the body. Sadly, to make the sheet rail would require an entire new tooling mould, (and not a straight forward one at that) which would add cost to the project. We tried to find room on other moulds to incorporate it but sadly it was not possible.

 

Photographic evidence also shows a large number that were not fitted with the sheet rail - many of which we have deliberately chosen, others we have been assured received them after building and at various times so could legitimately be portrayed with or without them.

 

I am sure some enterprising person may be able to make a high quality 3d print one or similar as an after market addition - I would only be too happy to speak to someone if they want to do this.

 

The original project was to produce the Iron Mink - the 4 plank was a lovely bonus requiring only 1 extra mould to make something very different.

 

Andy

[Compound2632]

Just now, rapidoandy said:

Photographic evidence also shows a large number that were not fitted with the sheet rail - many of which we have deliberately chosen, others we have been assured received them after building and at various times so could legitimately be portrayed with or without them.

 

It depends on period. Before the early years of the 20th century, sheet rails were unknown; from the introduction of pooling during the great War, the number of wagons fitted with them declined (owing to the Great western's toffee-nosed attitude to the pooling arrangements forced upon it, or so I understand). The period @Craigw is modelling, early 1920s, is probably just about or shortly after the peak. The question Rapido will have weighed in the balance is whether or not that is also the peak period for their market as a whole - I suspect not.

[Steamport Southport]

Didn't the sheet rails go pretty early though?

 

I'm sure they had mostly been removed pre WWI. Presumably transferred to the larger and more useful types. Certainly gone during the "Common User" era as the other companies didn't like them.

 

Wagons with the sheet rail were later marked "Non Common User" but I think that was only 5 and 7 planks, and most of those had them subsequently removed.

 

 

Jason

[Compound2632]

53 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

Didn't the sheet rails go pretty early though?

 

I'm sure they had mostly been removed pre WWI. Presumably transferred to the larger and more useful types. Certainly gone during the "Common User" era as the other companies didn't like them.

 

I thought it was rather the other way round - the other lines held onto the superior Great Western wagons with sheet rails! 

 

If sheet rails were removed from 4-plank wagons before the Great War, they can't have had them very long, since it was only from the early years of the century when they started to be fitted.  

[Schooner]

On 04/04/2022 at 16:13, rapidoandy said:

...the 4 plank was a lovely bonus...

...then I dread to think what the price would've been like without it...

 

Tongue partly in cheek - it's great to see pre-Grouping stock covered in pre-Grouping liveries. A trend worth supporting  

[Craigw]

On 05/04/2022 at 01:13, rapidoandy said:

Hi Craig,

 

We did look at it but after we discovered it was smaller than the SECR one it posed a problem. The 4 plank project was considered based on the fact it only required one extra mould for the body. Sadly, to make the sheet rail would require an entire new tooling mould, (and not a straight forward one at that) which would add cost to the project. We tried to find room on other moulds to incorporate it but sadly it was not possible.

 

Photographic evidence also shows a large number that were not fitted with the sheet rail - many of which we have deliberately chosen, others we have been assured received them after building and at various times so could legitimately be portrayed with or without them.

 

I am sure some enterprising person may be able to make a high quality 3d print one or similar as an after market addition - I would only be too happy to speak to someone if they want to do this.

 

The original project was to produce the Iron Mink - the 4 plank was a lovely bonus requiring only 1 extra mould to make something very different.

 

Andy

 

Hi Andy,

 

Thank you for the detailed explanation and response which I cannot argue or disagree with (I know, that is a shock on RMWEB)

 

I am hopeful (Im not actually) that someone  will take up the challenge of producing a sheet rail and supports as it is an essential item for the pre 1925 years on the GWR

 

Despite my mutterings, I am very grateful for you producing both of these wagons as 4 minks and 11 opens on order should attest to.

 

I look forward to further pre-grouping wagon offerings from Rapido.

 

Regards,

 

Craig W

 

[41516]

Hopefully whoever has purchased the 4mm range of ABS kits will also re-release the accessory sets, which included the GWR sheet supports as add-ons.

[Covkid]

18 hours ago, Craigw said:

 

Hi Andy,

 

Thank you for the detailed explanation and response which I cannot argue or disagree with (I know, that is a shock on RMWEB)

 

I am hopeful (Im not actually) that someone  will take up the challenge of producing a sheet rail and supports as it is an essential item for the pre 1925 years on the GWR

 

Despite my mutterings, I am very grateful for you producing both of these wagons as 4 minks and 11 opens on order should attest to.

 

I look forward to further pre-grouping wagon offerings from Rapido.

 

Regards,

 

Craig W

 

Are the bracket / support thingeys for the sheet rail handed ? if not then presume the manufacturer only needs to produce one, then duplicate for the other end ?

 

Perhaps a 3D print or an etch if shallow enough.  This kind of product would be useful if such as Rapido Andy could co-ordinate, as he has already hinted.  This would be quite a subtle step forward for the model train industry.   

[Fat Controller]

Rumney Models do the BR version in etched brass; I don't know how much commonality there is with the GWR type:-

https://website.rumneymodels.co.uk/wagon-detailing

[Siberian Snooper]

Just a thought,  if you're fitting a sheet,  will it cover the mechanism? If it does,  a hole in each end and a bit of bent wire and the jobs done, A different ball game if the wagon is unsheeted.

 

 

[57xx]

On 08/04/2022 at 15:55, Fat Controller said:

Rumney Models do the BR version in etched brass; I don't know how much commonality there is with the GWR type:-

https://website.rumneymodels.co.uk/wagon-detailing

 

Similar, but not the same.

[Compound2632]

On 08/04/2022 at 18:53, Siberian Snooper said:

Just a thought,  if you're fitting a sheet,  will it cover the mechanism?

 

 

[Re-sized from http://www.gwr.org.uk/liverieswagplate.html]

 

This is an O4, which had the same length and width as the standard 4-plank but was one plank taller, so on a 4-plank wagon everything would sit one plank lower, including the sheet bar mechanism.

[Compound2632]

I have used the sheet bar components from Parkside kit PC81 for O11/O15 to replace the unsatisfactory representation in the Coopercraft kits. This has left me building some BR-era O11/O15s which rather goes against the grain!

 

 

[Craigw]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

I have used the sheet bar components from Parkside kit PC81 for O11/O15 to replace the unsatisfactory representation in the Coopercraft kits. This has left me building some BR-era O11/O15s which rather goes against the grain!

 

 

 

I ordered some extra sprues from Parkside to give me some extra sheet supporters. As is the way, I did not buy enough. I also have a few from a Southwark Bridge Models GWR wagon detail and brakegear etch. That is no longer available. The ABS one making a comeback would be handy!

 

Regards,

 

Craig W

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, Craigw said:

I ordered some extra sprues from Parkside to give me some extra sheet supporters. As is the way, I did not buy enough.

 

I think it was from you I got the idea; apologies for the belated credit.

[Siberian Snooper]

2 hours ago, Craigw said:

 

I ordered some extra sprues from Parkside to give me some extra sheet supporters. As is the way, I did not buy enough. I also have a few from a Southwark Bridge Models GWR wagon detail and brakegear etch. That is no longer available. The ABS one making a comeback would be handy!

 

Regards,

 

Craig W

 

Have you tried Dave at Roxey Mouldings, for the  Southwark Models bits,  he now has the range.

 

 

[2996 Victor]

@rapidoandy +1 here for red livery on the pre-1904 version, please! And on the Iron Mink, too, please. You don't even need to change the running numbers.....

 

Cheers,

Mark

[Garethp8873]

Brilliant job Rapido! 👏🏻👏🏻

[Schooner]

Oh it's tip top Tommy, 

 

 

 

Edited November 27, 2022 by Schooner
Feeling a little guilty; this livery is absolutely not wrong, it just requires me to rethink livery choices on the layout. Wagon looks ace!

[Garethp8873]

On 27/11/2022 at 11:14, Schooner said:

Oh it's tip top Tommy, 

 

 

 

 

41277 is based upon the Severn Valley Railway's restoration of the wagon back in 1986/87 when it joined the railway. However the livery of 41277 I have learnt this week has changed...

 

Edited December 3, 2022 by Garethp8873

[Miss Prism]

That's an undercoat, yes?

[Garethp8873]

8 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

That's an undercoat, yes?

 

I don't know @Miss Prism. All I know is that they want to tidy up 41277 atm.