Hornby Tier System- An Update.

[Oldddudders]

10 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

Hattons appear to have gone up the Tier system, certainly Tier 2 if not Tier 1, unless there are no more tears.

 

I have had an email from them inviting me to pre-order 2022 and 2023 cataglogue items, until now you could not pre-order Hornby items with Hattons.

 

Now if they could also make friends again with Bachmann....

But hasn't recent experience suggested Tier #s were of little true value in offering certainty of their orders being supplied by Hornby? 

[woodenhead]

11 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

But hasn't recent experience suggested Tier #s were of little true value in offering certainty of their orders being supplied by Hornby? 

That's a different topic and hopefully one that Hornby is correcting this year with it's recovery year.

 

What this is hopefully is a thawing of relations with retailers, especially in a period where TT is being launched on it's direct only model.

[stewartingram]

Also noted, the website only exclusives with Corgi are now to be available from retailers. Seems a change is afoot all round with Hornby!

[Andy Hayter]

Cash generation prior to financial year end.

[nightstar.train]

6 hours ago, Legend said:

Hattons and Rails are my local shops given there are no model shops in West Central Scotland anymore that stock anything like a full range of model railways . So I hope Hattons are back in with Hornby . 

It’s a bit of a trek but Rainbow Railways in Linlithgow are very good. Their shop is in a soft play place so good for your kids too (if you have them). They’re at a lot of shows too and will bring stuff along if you email and ask them specifically. 

[Legend]

Interesting . I have now received a Hattons email inviting to preorder 2022 and 2023 ranges . Something has clearly changed 

[TomScrut]

2 hours ago, stewartingram said:

Also noted, the website only exclusives with Corgi are now to be available from retailers. Seems a change is afoot all round with Hornby!

 

I'm pretty sure the RCS staycation coaches were online exclusive too but seemed to be knocking about with retailers at Doncaster on Sunday.

 

Saying that, Bachmann Collector's Club items seem to get moved on to retailers at some point.

[Bucoops]

2 hours ago, Legend said:

Interesting . I have now received a Hattons email inviting to preorder 2022 and 2023 ranges . Something has clearly changed 

 

I deleted it, but I did notice something like "order with confidence". To say that, they must be really sure they can deliver!

[The Stationmaster]

19 hours ago, woodenhead said:

Hattons appear to have gone up the Tier system, certainly Tier 2 if not Tier 1, unless there are no more tears.

 

I have had an email from them inviting me to pre-order 2022 and 2023 cataglogue items, until now you could not pre-order Hornby items with Hattons.

 

Now if they could also make friends again with Bachmann....

I've noticed in their magazine ads that they are now advertising various new Hornby items.  So maybe Hornby have cottoned on to the fact that it's not a good idea to shoot yourself in the foot?

[The Stationmaster]

9 hours ago, Bucoops said:

 

I deleted it, but I did notice something like "order with confidence". To say that, they must be really sure they can deliver!

That is an amazing statement for anyone retailing Hornby items when even Tier 1 retailers are being 'rationed'.  And reportedly some retailers have been told what their allocation of some new items will be even before they place an order.

[spamcan61]

The announcement via Farcebook is here:-

 

Hattons announce Hornby 2022-2023 items available for pre-order

 

Predictably there are several comments from folks pointing out they've been burnt by Hattons pre-orders before (not necessarily Hattons fault, as discussed here) and why should they trust them now.

[Bucoops]

29 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

That is an amazing statement for anyone retailing Hornby items when even Tier 1 retailers are being 'rationed'.  And reportedly some retailers have been told what their allocation of some new items will be even before they place an order.

 

I un-deleted it as I was curious, this is exactly what it said:

 

 

I have no requirement for Hornby stuff so deleted it again 😁

[Ighten]

The problem is it's a bit meaningless.. if they run out and Hornby can't or don't supply them with there full allocation then once again it will be another round of disappointment emails from Hattons (even though it may not be Hattons fault).

 

There's also the other issue that Hornby not only seem to have changed ideas with outlets. But seem to now be competing in a way with price using the rewards scheme which can go to 15%. Useful for items that don't see much discount like the new BT chips

Edited February 17, 2023 by Ighten

[adb968008]

Hornby might be trying to woo retailers to take some boxes out of the warehouse before stock taking, but they need to go a bit further with wooing their customers.

 

Not doing a price rise in January was a pleasant surprise, but the quality of some stuff is a but hit and miss.. 9f.. excellant, execute like this consistently in steam and non-steam please… those new mk4’s arent much better than the old ones.

Edited February 17, 2023 by adb968008

[The Stationmaster]

21 hours ago, Ighten said:

The problem is it's a bit meaningless.. if they run out and Hornby can't or don't supply them with there full allocation then once again it will be another round of disappointment emails from Hattons (even though it may not be Hattons fault).

 

There's also the other issue that Hornby not only seem to have changed ideas with outlets. But seem to now be competing in a way with price using the rewards scheme which can go to 15%. Useful for items that don't see much discount like the new BT chips

 

17 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Hornby might be trying to woo retailers to take some boxes out of the warehouse before stock taking, but they need to go a bit further with wooing their customers.

 

Not doing a price rise in January was a pleasant surprise, but the quality of some stuff is a but hit and miss.. 9f.. excellant, execute like this consistently in steam and non-steam please… those new mk4’s arent much better than the old ones.

Don't forget there woll be 'a dash for cash' at Hornby at the moment to get some revenue in before the end of their financial year.  Last year they seem to have sold off some old stock out of the warehouse around this time and it was clearly discounted judging by the prices retailers were asking for it (and what I paid for some of it.  Similarly with new stock  coming in about now  it will pay them to get it through quickly to known prompt payers particularly if they are large orders from those retailers

[Andy Hayter]

The key point here is that the stock will need to be with or on its way to the retailers on or around the end of the month, so that payment is received before close of play at the end of March.  (Standard business terms are 30 days nett of invoice date.)

[Legend]

4 hours ago, Andy Hayter said:

The key point here is that the stock will need to be with or on its way to the retailers on or around the end of the month, so that payment is received before close of play at the end of March.  (Standard business terms are 30 days nett of invoice date.)

The transaction is at the point of sale , so it will appear in 31/3/23 turnover if sold up to that time . The fact it’s not paid for yet is irrelevant to the Income and Expenditure account . The balance is in debtors in the balance sheet until paid when it’s converted to cash . 

[Andy Hayter]

13 hours ago, Legend said:

The transaction is at the point of sale , so it will appear in 31/3/23 turnover if sold up to that time . The fact it’s not paid for yet is irrelevant to the Income and Expenditure account . The balance is in debtors in the balance sheet until paid when it’s converted to cash . 

 

 

It changes category - it moves from stock to debtors but stays on the wrong side of the balance sheet.

 

It needs to generate cash to appear on the plus side.

[Legend]

17 minutes ago, Andy Hayter said:

 

 

It changes category - it moves from stock to debtors but stays on the wrong side of the balance sheet.

 

It needs to generate cash to appear on the plus side.

Actually they are all debits so they are all on the asset side of balance sheet ( or the window side as my teacher pointed out) , but what you are getting at is that it’s obviously better to have a liquid asset like cash rather than assets tied up  stock and debtors , funded by liabilities (the door side of the balance sheet lol) 

 

Sorry for the boring accountancy 

 

The key thing is that somethings changed . Could it be rather than Hattons moving tiers , that the whole tier system has been abandoned ? I really hope it has as it’s just caused confusion . What successful company has a system that rations sales ! Anyone actually know? I know we have a few model shop proprietors on here . 

Edited February 19, 2023 by Legend

[Dominion]

Of the 2022 and 2023 Hornby items I was interested in Hattons only has a small portion available to preorder. (That is for someone interested in the LNER and Eastern region steam. I don’t know what it is like for other regions and eras.)

However my guess is this is just Hornby estimating that those items will not end up needing any allocation and letting Hattons put their “stock order” in early. 
I really wish it indicated a thawing in relations or a change in the tier system but I would hope to see more items for that situation. 
Better than nothing though, I have had excellent service from Hattons to Canada and wish I could get more Hornby and Bachmann from them.

Tom

Edited February 19, 2023 by Dominion
Added

[The Stationmaster]

18 minutes ago, Legend said:

 

The key thing is that somethings changed . Could it be rather than Hattons moving tiers , that the whole tier system has been abandoned ? I really hope it has as it’s just caused confusion . What successful company has a system that rations sales ! Anyone actually know? I know we have a few model shop proprietors on here . 

I think that as long as Hornby continue 'allication; or whatever you care to call it, the tier system  will be undermined by them.  The real problem, which some comments suggest they might now be tackling , is that they have in the past accepted more orders for whatever than they had ordered from the factory - in other words they were overselling.  If that overselling occurred in January when retailer orders are taken that was sheer abysmal mismanagement and lack of managerial control with no proper excuse for it.

 

If delivery from the factories fell short of what they had 'sold' to retailers and had ordered from the factory then that wasn't entirely their fault but they could certainly have handled matters much better with their customers both in the retail trade and us.  If they were - as was alleged on one occasion - taking stock from that set aside for retailers in order to sell it direct then that too merits a wide range if uncomplimentary comments.

 

Overall if by introducing tiers they were implying the we could order in good faith from Tier 1 retailers then they got it wrong - for whatever reason and they need to revise the system.  But above all what they have still not done is rebuild trust with many of their retailers or with some of their end customers.  They have repeatedly said that it is their ambition to increase direct sales revenue although it is still unclear if that applies across theboard or to particular brands.  So again we could be excused for not knowing what they mean - back to trust, or lack thereof.

 

This year it doesn't worry me in the least because Hornby have nothing new that I want or am inclined to buy.  if the do sell off some older stock - as last year - they might get some revenue from me but that depends entirely on what becomes available.  I had been hit by allocation' from Hornby years before tiers were invented so the problem is nothing new and doesn't seem to happen with other British outline model  'manufacturers' selling through the retail trade.  When I pre-order something from my retailers I either get it, at around the same time as everyone else, or I'm told that I'm too late and I've missed the boat or 'I'll see if they've got any left in the warehouse after they've met their pre-orders'.   As Hornby seem to be teh only ones with this 'allocation' and 'tier' situation it once again suggests t me that is not only a managerial problem but, based on my past experience also a long standing one which the company has repeatedly failed to resolve.

 

The only bright light in this area which has come from the present regime at the company is that I no longer see people working out of their front room or garage selling at shows items which I had pre-ordered but didn't get from my retailer because his order had not been met in full (i.e. he was 'allocated')

[drnick]

I wonder what tier this "retailer" is? 

 

Senior's Express https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/177289-seniors-express/

[HExpressD]

21 minutes ago, drnick said:

I wonder what tier this "retailer" is? 

 

Senior's Express https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/177289-seniors-express/

As it seems to have no option to pre-order new range stock, and doesn't have a very exhaustive list of stock full stop you'd have to assume not a very high one