Kernow Models D6xx Update

[woodenhead]

Nice, saw someone comment on Dapol's Facebook page at the weekend that Dapol should do a D600 - weren't Dapol the original partners with Kernow for this.

 

Wonder if it was a joke or someone who had no idea Kernow are building this model.

[Clive Mortimore]

I see Kernow have posted a new pic - looking good

 

https://www.facebook.com/KernowModelRailCentre/photos/rpp.207521425956079/1775752252466314/?type=3&theater

Looks like a D600.

[dogbox321]

Yes, but anyone noticed the 50010 and 50007 in the background.  Looks like two MORE Hornby models on the horizon.  50010 has not been done by Hornby (although Lima did it with Rails/Traction), and 50007 has only been done with Red Nameplates, and Weathered for the old Collectors Club.

 

Regards,

 

C.

[adb968008]

Yes, but anyone noticed the 50010 and 50007 in the background. Looks like two MORE Hornby models on the horizon. 50010 has not been done by Hornby (although Lima did it with Rails/Traction), and 50007 has only been done with Red Nameplates, and Weathered for the old Collectors Club.

 

Regards,

 

C.

Noticed that ! Hope it comes with 4 buffers though :-)

 

D600 looks good, didn’t realise it was that long in length though

Edited October 5, 2017 by adb968008

[Clive Mortimore]

Looks like a D600.

On a second look, I am not sure D600s ran in service with a big sticky label on the roof.     

[Clive Mortimore]

Surprised you didn't spot the missing buffer on the 50007 model 

Didn't look at it, D400 are far to modern for me. :nono:

[cctransuk]

Didn't look at it, D400 are far to modern for me. :nono:

 

Me too - if it was painted Rail Blue when it was introduced, it's too modern!

 

Regards,

John isherwood.

[SRman]

On a second look, I am not sure D600s ran in service with a big sticky label on the roof.   

 

Where you bin, boy??? Din't you know D600 ran with a big sticky label on its roof one day in Spring 1961 after the crew complained of rain leakin' in! 

[paulbb]

Me too - if it was painted Rail Blue when it was introduced, it's too modern!

 

Regards,

John isherwood.

It all went too modern for me when they brought in those yellow warning panel thingies.

I see they now have been abandoned on the class 345's EMU's and TPE class 68's - hurrrah...

[St Enodoc]

Noticed that ! Hope it comes with 4 buffers though :-)

 

D600 looks good, didn’t realise it was that long in length though

62' 6" over headstocks, 65' 0" over buffers according to British Rail Main-Line Diesels by S W Stevens-Stratten & R S Carter (2nd edition), Ian Allan, 1975 (ISBN 0 7110 0617 2).

[Roy Langridge]

62' 6" over headstocks, 65' 0" over buffers according to British Rail Main-Line Diesels by S W Stevens-Stratten & R S Carter (2nd edition), Ian Allan, 1975 (ISBN 0 7110 0617 2).

 

Blimey - longer than a Class 37, that I never realised.

​Roy

[Kelly]

I could see a use for a D600 class possibly, though I've always preferred the D800 class for some reason (5ft shorter than the D600s).

[adb968008]

Blimey - longer than a Class 37, that I never realised.

 

​Roy

And longer than a class 47 too.

 

The more I read of these the more intruging they are.. 2X 1000hp Engines delivering less power than a pair of Class 20’s, but designed to rival a Class 40, yet being less powerful than the 40, and the Warships too.

They just seem massively inefficient.

The Hymeks looks a much better proposition by comparison.

Edited October 6, 2017 by adb968008

[St Enodoc]

Blimey - longer than a Class 37, that I never realised.

​Roy

The longest locos drawn in the book are the Deltics and DP2, both 69' 6" over buffers.

[Ian Hargrave]

And longer than a class 47 too.

 

The more I read of these the more intruging they are.. 2X 1000hp Engines delivering less power than a pair of Class 20’s, but designed to rival a Class 40, yet being less powerful than the 40, and the Warships too.

They just seem massively inefficient.

The Hymeks looks a much better proposition by comparison.

 

Ah but that wasn't the point...they were the first and they (for a short while) were the flagship for GW individuality.

[Kelly]

And longer than a class 47 too.

 

The more I read of these the more intruging they are.. 2X 1000hp Engines delivering less power than a pair of Class 20’s, but designed to rival a Class 40, yet being less powerful than the 40, and the Warships too.

They just seem massively inefficient.

The Hymeks looks a much better proposition by comparison.

They were the first test for the diesel hydraulic systems. The lower power was due to early transmissions not being able to handle extra horsepower iirc.

 

There was also problems with the technology being German, and the UK government refusing to allow engine and transmission to be made in Germany, so they had to be licensed, which caused a few issues as some of the licence holders weren't as adept at the finer tolerance needed for them.

 

The 800 class locos took lessons from them and used a totally different method of construction, so gave a far better power to weight ratio.

 

By the time the hymeks appeared a lot of lessons had been learned too

[Holmesfeldian]

North British only having Imperial spanners and being one strep away from being blacksmiths probably didn’t help with the reliability of precision metric German equipment built under licence.

[Dunsignalling]

They were the first test for the diesel hydraulic systems. The lower power was due to early transmissions not being able to handle extra horsepower iirc.

 

There was also problems with the technology being German, and the UK government refusing to allow engine and transmission to be made in Germany, so they had to be licensed, which caused a few issues as some of the licence holders weren't as adept at the finer tolerance needed for them.

 

The 800 class locos took lessons from them and used a totally different method of construction, so gave a far better power to weight ratio.

 

By the time the hymeks appeared a lot of lessons had been learned too

And Beyer Peacock were several levels above North British in most respects, anyway. If they'd built the D600s, they would have been altogether different and better locos. 

 

John

[Gwiwer]

Having seen the test shot in the flesh I am happy that it looks like a 600. I don't claim intimate knowledge of where every rivet goes nor how many there are. But it looks good to someone who grew up seeing the real things almost daily. I didn't see it running as the shop layout was busy with other things. I'm happy with my investment and that the wait will have been worthwhile

[Kelly]

And Beyer Peacock were several levels above North British in most respects, anyway. If they'd built the D600s, they would have been altogether different and better locos. 

 

John

 

Different yes, better, maybe. A part of their problems was their weight/size, hence the bogie arrangements needed. They came in overweight, due to the traditional style of construction. The D800s used monocoque type construction, so were much much lighter, allowing use of Bo-Bo arrangement instead.

[SRman]

Different yes, better, maybe. A part of their problems was their weight/size, hence the bogie arrangements needed. They came in overweight, due to the traditional style of construction. The D800s used monocoque type construction, so were much much lighter, allowing use of Bo-Bo arrangement instead.

 

The weight certainly affected the power to weight ratio, but that's only part of the story. If they had used the later uprated engines, as fitted to the production batch of class 22s they would have had just that little bit extra power. Reliability could have been improved with a bit of perseverance, again as did occur with the 22s. Certainly, having the A1A wheel arrangement was not conducive to good traction with two unpowered axles taking weight off the driven axles - better for the brake force, though.

 

Even that is not the whole story; the later Warships and Westerns used the lightweight construction to great advantage, but the Hymeks reverted to conventional heavy construction which, in their case, actually assisted in their usefulness, improving their tractive effort and brake force.

Edited October 7, 2017 by SRman

[Ian Hargrave]

The weight certainly affected the power to weight ratio, but that's only part of the story. If they had used the later uprated engines, as fitted to the production batch of class 22s they would have had just that little bit extra power. Reliability could have been improved with a but of perseverance, again as did occur with the 22s. Certainly, having the A1A wheel arrangement was not conducive to good traction with two unpowered axles taking weight off the driven axles - better for the brake force, though.

Even that is not the whole story; the later Warships and Westerns used the lightweight construction to great advantage, but the Hymeks reverted to conventional heavy construction which, in their case, actually assisted in their usefulness, improving their tractive effort and brake force.

But there was a downside to that too. Initially,the Hymeks were put to work on heavy Paddington -Swansea trains and were thrashed beyond their limits.putting a strain on their transmission systems.They were a stopgap until the arrival of the Westerns and later the Brush 47's.Mr Raymond was obsessed with obliterating steam.....

[darren01]

Hi

Have you see the Kernow news letter, here a copy about D600.

 

D600 First EP arrived this week! It is currently being run-in and tested on our layout - exciting!

We are producing five versions as detailed below - see them on our website by clicking on the pictures. Remember - if you choose to pay for this item in full at the time of ordering, you will be given a discount of £10. Please add this message "Leave Warship Charged For £10 to be refunded" to the customer notes field when placing your web order if you wish to take advantage of this! If you do not add this message we will assume you do not wish to pay up front and we will refund your card in full to pay the full price on arrival, Also new price £169.99?.

Darren

 

 

[adb968008]

What were the D600’s used along side for, and at what point did their role start to fade ? (I’m thinking 1963-67, after most Hymeks, Warships and Westerns were delivered).

 

We’re they rostered alongside Warships or Hymeks, I can’t imagine putting them on a Western duty resulted in much fun ?, even a Warship duty looks a little challenged ? Or were they used on steam replacement diagrams ?

As a class of 5 I can’t imagine they were replaced by anything, i’d Assume they were redundant from an early stage ?

Edited October 8, 2017 by adb968008

[Steamport Southport]

They were Warships and did the same duties. Mostly London expresses from/to Plymouth, up to and including the Cornish Riviera. They were based at Laira for most of their lives.

 

They suffered the same fate as the other Warships, too many of them and were withdrawn early due to being "non standard". The Class 42s and 43s were being withdrawn at the same time.

 

 

 

Jason