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Bachmann Blue Pullman





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#26 brushman47544

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 11:04

Well I know we are not likely to get another Pullman offered from our Barwell friends anytime soon but just a little food for thought!

 

I well recall that a Blue Pullman was not likely either, before the first announcement.

 

I for one would buy another if I could get a reverse liveried one in grey-blue with jumpers - though do expect to pay a pretty penny!

 

Just wonder if one day we might get a surprise announcement - you never know!

 

I would be surprised if Bachmann hasn't allowed for that option in its tooling, but whether they actually tool up for it is a different matter when they've been clear that there are no plans to do any further runs because the price would be higher than they expect people would be prepared to pay. But never say never...





#27 The Stationmaster

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 11:23

I would be surprised if Bachmann hasn't allowed for that option in its tooling, but whether they actually tool up for it is a different matter when they've been clear that there are no plans to do any further runs because the price would be higher than they expect people would be prepared to pay. But never say never...

$64,000 question - is there a big enough market to justify making another variant?  Bachmann sold out of them but as I understand things the ones with custard dip ends were sold off in a clearance (and some retailers still have stocks of them).  Now think about the size of the market - the price last time round was based on a run of X thousand selling at a particular price to, I presume, give the required return and cover costs (and hopefully deliver a profit).  So even if the previous price is to be maintained the run would need to be fairly large in number to give a return or a smaller run would result in a higher price.

 

Clearly (hopefully) the development and tooling costs were recovered against the previous run so in theory a new rune would not need to cover that part of the manufacturing costs.  But in the meanwhile labour costs have risen considerably so overall cost might not be all that different - which then leaves the original question of is the market big enough to make sufficient to keep cost per units down to a marketable level.  Must be an interesting financial juggling act and probably one which Bachmann rather wouldn't get involved in when they have plenty of stuff on the go which will fly off the shelves.


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#28 Joseph_Pestell

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 11:30

$64,000 question - is there a big enough market to justify making another variant?  Bachmann sold out of them but as I understand things the ones with custard dip ends were sold off in a clearance (and some retailers still have stocks of them).  Now think about the size of the market - the price last time round was based on a run of X thousand selling at a particular price to, I presume, give the required return and cover costs (and hopefully deliver a profit).  So even if the previous price is to be maintained the run would need to be fairly large in number to give a return or a smaller run would result in a higher price.

 

Clearly (hopefully) the development and tooling costs were recovered against the previous run so in theory a new rune would not need to cover that part of the manufacturing costs.  But in the meanwhile labour costs have risen considerably so overall cost might not be all that different - which then leaves the original question of is the market big enough to make sufficient to keep cost per units down to a marketable level.  Must be an interesting financial juggling act and probably one which Bachmann rather wouldn't get involved in when they have plenty of stuff on the go which will fly off the shelves.

 

I think that this will probably need one of the large retailers to take on the risk rather than leaving it to Bachmann.



#29 Ron Ron Ron

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 12:26

I think that this will probably need one of the large retailers to take on the risk rather than leaving it to Bachmann.

 

...or a magazine, or another person or group willing to take on the risk.

I would be very surprised if Bachmann were to do a new run of the original (Blue) Midland Pullman on their own.

 

Let's face it, those who dithered (like me) missed their chance.

 

 

.



#30 Ozexpatriate

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 20:11

... they've been clear that there are no plans to do any further runs because the price would be higher than they expect people would be prepared to pay. But never say never...

Sure, never say never.

$64,000 question - is there a big enough market to justify making another variant?

In addition to that, I would think the opportunity cost of consuming all those production slots with a 6 car (let alone an 8 car) unit would be prohibitive in the Bachmann's current manufacturing climate compared with using those same production slots for two new locomotives and four new coaches (like the SECR Birdcage set).
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#31 JSpencer

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 20:37

Any new run would be £500 plus a unit now.
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#32 petee19

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Posted 27 February 2015 - 16:40

This is a pure guess on my part,assuming there are still many Yellow ended sets around what would the possibility be of Bachmann producing the two end cars in Nanking  with Crest as a set,at least this way those who wanted a complete blue set could obtain one this way by buying a yellow ended six car set, and then the two blue car set.....just a thought!


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#33 farren

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Posted 02 March 2015 - 17:33

We will finally find out how much a new run will cost

#34 MickD

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Posted 02 March 2015 - 17:56

Hi
Just had Hattons e-mail, £295 for blue Pullman set,(guestimated).
MickD

#35 Dunsignalling

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Posted 02 March 2015 - 17:59

Hi
Just had Hattons e-mail, £295 for blue Pullman set,(guestimated).
MickD

I think it will be about double that by the time it arrives.

 

Ditto the Breakdown Crane (provisional pre-order price of £60) if it's going to be half decent.

 

John


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#36 miles73128

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Posted 02 March 2015 - 18:19

Unless it's not all six cars? Could be a 4 car set?



#37 Removed a/c

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Posted 02 March 2015 - 19:31

The blurb says it is a 6 car set



#38 farren

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Posted 02 March 2015 - 19:32

The spec says 6 cars on bachmanns site

#39 Market65

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Posted 02 March 2015 - 20:34

Hi. I would have thought, at a full six-car set, that since the original price was about £300.00, then the price now, for this new run of the unit would be about £425.00 - i.e. 20% increase from last year, and then, apparently, 15% for this years increase. We, of course, will have to wait and see.

 

All the best,

 

Market65.



#40 royaloak

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Posted 02 March 2015 - 20:44

Bachmann would have/should have recouped the design/tooling costs from the sale of the original release so these costs wont apply to this batch, I still reckon that by the time these are released £400 will be closer to the mark though.


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#41 BobM

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Posted 02 March 2015 - 21:20

Bachmann would have/should have recouped the design/tooling costs from the sale of the original release so these costs wont apply to this batch, I still reckon that by the time these are released £400 will be closer to the mark though.

 

Saw a Nanking Blue (secondhand) for under £400 in a local model shop just this weekend.....



#42 The Stationmaster

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Posted 02 March 2015 - 22:52

I must say, especially in view of my post not very far above this one (!!), that the new Pullman has come as a big surprise although it is being marketed in a rather different way as a train pack 'with extras' rather than just as a Blue Pullman set.  Clearly the most popular livery has been chosen but i still wonder just how much of a market there is going to be for it unless they can achieve some sort of unimaginably competitive price.

 

But Barwell obviously think there's a market and presumably they know they will sell - I wonder how they will see things after the retailers have had their day and spent time getting in orders?


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#43 Ozexpatriate

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Posted 02 March 2015 - 23:48

I must say, especially in view of my post not very far above this one (!!), that the new Pullman has come as a big surprise although it is being marketed in a rather different way as a train pack 'with extras' rather than just as a Blue Pullman set.

Mike, I agree. I too was very surprised to see this reappear so soon. The offering (with a book and figures) as a "special collectors' edition" will make a nice set but presumably it will come with premium pricing.

Given that pricing is TBA on the Bachmann website, perhaps it will be some time before this set actually materializes.


Edited by Ozexpatriate, 02 March 2015 - 23:49 .

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#44 stovepipe

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 00:32

Hi. I would have thought, at a full six-car set, that since the original price was about £300.00, then the price now, for this new run of the unit would be about £425.00 - i.e. 20% increase from last year, and then, apparently, 15% for this years increase. We, of course, will have to wait and see.

 

All the best,

 

Market65.

 

The original Bachmann price was £349.95, but sold as low as £300 at Hattons etc. So using your percentages we might be looking at £480 RRP, or perhaps £420 with dealer discount.



#45 Ozexpatriate

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 03:40

... So using your percentages we might be looking at £480 RRP, or perhaps £420 with dealer discount.

Let's not forget that:
 
Midland Pullman Train Packs

The award winning model will come with a selection of special, exclusive collectors items including a special print of the box artwork, a pack of stewards and train crew figures, reproduction menu card and a first edition copy of the latest Blue Pullman book by Kevin Robertson.

These packs will make wonderful gifts for seasoned collectors, that special someone or a treat for yourself.

This sounds like it will be even more expensive.


Edited by Ozexpatriate, 03 March 2015 - 04:49 .

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#46 petee19

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 08:31

Could this be a reworking of what started out originally as yellow ended sets that remain unsold,possibly only needing new end car body mouldings.



#47 stovepipe

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 08:51

Let's not forget that:
 Midland Pullman Train Packs

This sounds like it will be even more expensive.


And destined never to be run by the owner?

#48 brushman47544

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 09:14

Could this be a reworking of what started out originally as yellow ended sets that remain unsold,possibly only needing new end car body mouldings.


Hadn't thought of that. I believe Bachmann has weathered and renumbered a Class 150 before and the just announced weathered BR Blue 2EPB looks like a reworking of the first release too. As the version left on the shelves from the original releases, I can't see Bachmann doing a new production run in BR Blue just yet.

#49 Ron Ron Ron

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 10:16

...or a magazine, or another person or group willing to take on the risk.
I would be very surprised if Bachmann were to do a new run of the original (Blue) Midland Pullman on their own.
 
Let's face it, those who dithered (like me) missed their chance..

 
I'm very surprised by this announcement and more than happy to eat my own words (above), written only less than a week ago.
Having stupidly dithered when there were loads of the original sets on sale all over Warley, a couple of years ago, I've kicked myself ever since on missing out.
So one happy bunny here, even if the price will be substantially higher.
 
 
 

.....the new Pullman has come as a big surprise although it is being marketed in a rather different way as a train pack 'with extras' rather than just as a Blue Pullman set.  Clearly the most popular livery has been chosen but i still wonder just how much of a market there is going to be for it unless they can achieve some sort of unimaginably competitive price.
 
But Barwell obviously think there's a market and presumably they know they will sell ....


I strongly suspect the decision to re-run this model has not been a straightforward one.

Rather than just re-issue the model as produced in 2013, which would have come with a larger degree of commercial risk (especially in view of the higher production costs involved two years down the line); they've taken the sensible route (IMHO) of introducing "added value" in the form of special packaging and including the extra's.

 

Re-packaging of the product (added-value) may in itself be an attraction or inducement to buy for some who chose not to purchase it first time around.

Not to mention it being attractive collector fodder, coupled with the increased chance that this will be it; the final chance to get a Midland Pullman.

I suspect these factors would help, or be necessary in achieving the number of sales required to make the re-run viable, especially in view of the unknown size of the unsatisfied market and the inevitable large price increase?

I still can't see it being any more than a limited run though.

 

The pricing will no doubt be a calculated risk between what the market will stand and the increased production costs. The "added value" being a "sweetener".

 

Who cares, I'm having one regardless !!!!

 

 

.


Edited by Ron Ron Ron, 03 March 2015 - 10:21 .

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#50 The Stationmaster

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 12:16

BTW Ron - the only reason I didn't 'Agree' with your post No.51) above is because I still won't be buying one!  Everything else you say is, I think, spot on - they see it as an 'added value' product which has a slightly different market appeal.  What would be very interesting to know (apropos of not very much of course) is how many they are putting into the market place and that might enhance the marketability of it is a 'limited' edition.  The original release was, so a retailer told me, a bit over 3,000 in total and I can't honestly see this one exceeding 1,000 and possibly only have that number.

 

But looking at it another way if they did, say, 1,000 at, say, £450 each they're looking at a retail value of £450,000 and a potential wholesale value of presumably in excess of £300,000 - good money if you can get it and 'added value' usually means a higher profit margin so in that respect I can see some sense in it.


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