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Slater's GWR dia. C10 clerestory coach


Mikkel

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I’m building a Slaters kit for a  GWR bogie clerestory third to diagram C10. The coach is intended for a motley Edwardian stopping train consisting of a variety of carriage styles, as was common on the GWR in the 1900s. But first it will be used in a re-enactment of the 1911 railway strike, and is therefore in the 1908-1912 all brown livery (as yet un-lined). 

 

 

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This post summarizes the build.  It's a long post but I'm told the kits are due back on the market so perhaps this can help give others an impression of what's involved and avoid my mistakes!

 

 

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What you get. Lots of bits. Wheels weren’t included.

 

 

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The plastic components are crisp and detailed. I did spend some time cleaning away flash. The larger bits of flash are minimal and not a problem, but there are thin strips of flash along the upper edges of the windows which require care.

 

 

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I used Limonene (two coats) to bond the sides, which worked well enough. The Magnetic Clamps are from Smart Models.

 

 

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The partitions were then fitted, followed by the roof. I opened out the notches in the roof for the partitions, so that the roof could be taken on and off during the build.

 

 

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The seats are quickly made and fit nicely in the compartments - not always the case with kit seats!

 

 

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The clerestory structure was quickly built up. The ends and clerestory parts are “handed” with different details at each end.

 

 

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The underframe, solebars and headstocks were then fitted. Etched brass snuck in via the "racking plate" , which was glued in place.

 

 

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I then turned to the bogies. 

 

 

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They fold up nicely.

 

 

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One mistake was to put off strengthening the  stepboard supports with solder. They are very fragile and will soon break off otherwise. The photo shows the ones I managed to rescue, the rest were replaced with wire  later on.

 

 

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The inside frame and rocking mechanism was then made.

 

 

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The principle of the kits - at least those produced until now - is that the wheels run in the inside frame using "inside bearings". Brass wire hold the wheels in place and allow sprung movement. This design has drawn critical comments from people who struggled to get good running. I understand that it will be changed when the kits are re-released.

 

 

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In any case, I lacked the correct axles so decided to go for an alternative approach, using Alan Gibson pinpoint axles in ordinary bearings. Thanks to @Darwinian for the idea.

 

 

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For this approach to work, the pinpoint bearings must fit perfectly into the recessed aperture around the hole in the bogie sides - seen here - and must be of the right depth. Otherwise the sides will splay. 

 

 

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Using the right bearings was therefore critical. I tried various types including 2mm Top Hat bearings but these would not accommodate the axles within the bogie frames. Eventually I used these waisted bearings plundered from old Coopercraft kits, as seen above. 

 

 

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The ends of the bearings did need some filing so that the axleboxes would fit over them. Filing the inside of the axleboxes also helped.

 

 

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With this simplified approach the inner frame was not strictly required, but I decided to fit it anyway to add strength and hold the rocking mechanism.

 

 

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 Are you still awake? Captions welcome.

 

 

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The bogie interiors were gradually becoming inaccessible so I primed them and painted the Mansell wheels. The latter are brownish red as a loose indication of varnished redwood (see good discussion on Western Thunder).

 

 

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A silly mistake cost me dearly. I forgot to fit brake shoes until the wheels were firmly in place. Retrofitting the 16 shoes was a hellish task. As a result the various brake pull yokes didn’t fit properly, so much of that is just indicated with brass wire.

 

 

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Once back on track, the cross stays and scroll irons were fitted. There are useful close-ups and drawings of Dean bogies in Russell's GWR Coaches Part 1 p. 93-95.

 

 

 

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The scroll irons were then cut to allow the bogie to rotate. Not exactly neat cuts, they were filed later. I do need a proper flush cutter.

 

 

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In order for the bogies to rotate, the frames have to be modified at each end.

 

 

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I hope I got the position of the gas cylinders right. I peered into the murky darkness of prototype photos and Didcot's C10, which suggests it's more or less OK.

 

 

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Next the underframe details were fitted.

 

 

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I shortened the queen posts, as I felt the truss rods ended up too low if fitted as intended. Prototype photos like this one (and the C10 at Didcot) shows them higher up and fairly discrete. Unless truss rods changed over the years?

 

 

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I didn't fancy "trapping" the bogies with the brake pull rods, so just fitted this single rod held by (unprototypical) vertical mounts. The bogie can be slid out underneath it. Bit of a bodge but at least something is there for those rare glimpses.

 

 

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The main buffer components. There’s an option of springing them, though I didn’t use it. The instructions state that the buffers "consisted of a curved oval steel plate bolted onto a round buffer head". 

 

 

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The outer plate needs to be lightly curved and then fitted to the buffer heads. I didn't make a good job of this, it looks a bit odd. If I do another one I'll see if ready-made buffers can be obtained instead.

 

 

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Next the stepboard hangers went on. This required patience as the hangers, solebars and stepboards all need modification for the parts to fit, as also indicated in the instructions.

 

 

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The material used for the stepboards somehow managed to be both bendy and brittle at the time, though note that this is a secondhand kit of some age. My adjustable multi-purpose jig a.k.a. “The Piano” saved the day.

 

 

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The lower stepboards were then fitted. I later found that the bogie stepboards had to be shortened approx. 1,5 mm to clear the central stepboard. The hangers for the latter also need modification or they will stick out oddly.

 

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It’s striking what a difference stepboards make to the appearance of a coach.

 

 

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From there on it was plain sailing. The roof was detailed using the as lamp tops in the kit, and 0.3mm (0.010") brass wire.

 

 

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Steps fitted at one end, and putty to fill out the corner joins. In 1911 the GWR experimented with Bluetack on buffers in response to complaints about rough riding. The idea was abandoned when a Slip coach destined for Weymouth was found still attached at Penzance.

 

 

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After priming, the interior was painted. I decided to leave the 48 picture frames untouched. Chris: I did try painting them as you suggested but soon realized that it should have been done while the partitions were still on the sprue.

 

 

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The coach sides were brush-painted with my normal method of multiple coats (5 in this case) of much thinned Vallejo acrylics, using a broad flat brush. In the photo a fresh coat is being applied.

 

 

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The coach was painted all-brown as per the 1908-1912 livery. The photos I have show light to dark grey rooves (probably the usual darkening) with no brown beneath the rainstrips.

 

 

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Commode- and door handles were then added, followed by lettering and insignia. The 1908 livery had the garter in the center, and crests either side with "GWR" above. The position of the crests at the outer ends makes for an unbalanced look and takes some getting used to.

 

 

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But that's how it appears in this crop of a 1911 photo of a scene I'll be modelling.  Perhaps this extreme position of the crests was in fact a particular feature of the little explored 1908-1912 livery - brakes excepted? Photos of bogie coaches in the all brown livery are rare, but there is a Toplight in Russell 's GWR coaches which also has the crests just before the last passenger door at each end. The photo in Slinn's Great Western Way has the crests further in, but on inspection that coach has guard doors at each end, and so there would not have been room to put the crests further out on that particular coach (crests were kept clear of doors). Of course in 1912 the GWR did move the crests further in, with just a single "GWR" placed above the garter.

 

 

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The 1908 livery saw the introduction of black ends. The hand rails are 0.3 mm wire from Wizard Models, which I found easier to shape than the wire in the kit. Vaccuum pipes and couplings to follow.

 

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So far I have never lined my Edwardian coaches, a pragmatic decision  in order to get things built and running. In this case it does add to the austere appearance though. Perhaps it's time to try out an Easi-Liner pen.

 

Anyway, that's the current state of play. My original plan was to use this livery for a photo shoot of selected 1911 scenes and then repaint it in pre-1906 livery with cream panels. However I must admit that the sombre look is growing on me. Something to ponder.

 

 

Edited by Mikkel

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As promised, I've taken a picture of my sample card with Humbrol No.160 German Camouflage Red Brown, as you see below. (Note, I erroneously posted that it was No.100, which is Red Brown, but much lighter than this Red Brown.)

 

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Unfortunately, my camera wanted to overexpose the card, so having made a correction to the image, the above can only be considered approximate. However, the right side shows how it looks with a coat of satin varnish (done with a small brush, so a little blotchy).

 

No.160 seems to fall somewhere between Humbrol No.10 Service Brown (which I use for GWR Chocolate) and Precision GWR Coach (Crimson) Lake. Sometimes No.160 looks brown; and sometimes somewhat redder, almost but not reaching the level of Precision's crimson lake.

 

I don't necessarily propose this as a candidate for the 1908 brown livery; but now that I can see how it looks varnished, I can see it as a possibility.

 

One thing's for sure, this particular exercise has proven that you cannot rely on the camera, or posted images online for that matter, as true colour guides — as Mikkel has so ably shown us.

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33 minutes ago, Dana Ashdown said:

 

One thing's for sure, this particular exercise has proven that you cannot rely on the camera, or posted images online for that matter, as true colour guides — as Mikkel has so ably shown us.

You cannot rely on anything for the correct colour, when new, because we don't have a time machine to go back and inspect a newly painted vehicle of the period.☹️

It will always be a "best guess" approximation.

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ChrisN

Posted (edited)

We have had a discussion on @MikeOxon's blog about Holly Green, the colour of the original GWR locomotives.  The modern GWR claims it is painting its stock in that colour.  To see if it was felt it was a good representation, when we were standing next to a newly painted train I asked my wife what colour she thought it was.

"Black", came the reply.

I asked again later and she said, "Green".  The first time it was in shade, the second was in full sun.

 

Just keep adding yellow until you think it is right.  🙂

Edited by ChrisN
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Thanks for sharing that Dana, what a difference the varnish makes.  And the undercoat affects it too, no doubt, I get different results even just between white and light grey undercoats.

 

Sometimes you only see that difference in certain lighting conditions and when it's too late, which always annoys me. But it shouldn't I suppose, because the real world is like that too as your example illustrates, Chris. 

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4 hours ago, Mikkel said:

... I must admit that the sombre look is growing on me...

It's much better than the 'fairground' look favoured by many modern companies.

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5 hours ago, Mikkel said:

And the undercoat affects it too, no doubt, I get different results even just between white and light grey undercoats.

I have always used red oxide primer as a base for reds and browns.

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Mikkel, great build! and thanks for the detailed step by step images. I'm interested to know who will be re-introducing the Slaters kits? will it be Slaters themselves or Coopercraft who, I believe, took over marketing their 4mm range.

 

Steve 

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2 hours ago, steve howe said:

Mikkel, great build! and thanks for the detailed step by step images. I'm interested to know who will be re-introducing the Slaters kits? will it be Slaters themselves or Coopercraft who, I believe, took over marketing their 4mm range.

 

It is Slaters themselves. The collaboration with Coopercraft (now defunct) was unsuccessful. 

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The comments on how the undercoat affects the top colour interests me; I have always primed my metal locos with rattle can grey primer followed by the chosen topcoat, in my case GWR green, either pre or post 1928. Recently I modified a pair of ex-Mainline 57xx pannier bodies to early1920's condition which required stripping off the paint to reveal matt black plastic. Acting on advice from colleagues on the Scalefour forum, I didn't use primer, and applied two coats of Precision GWR pre-1928 green direct to the plastic. This green (which is noticably darker than the later shade) looks decidedly deep compared to locos primed with grey when viewed in natural light. I'm wondering, (because GWR pre 1928 looks to contain quite a lot of red in its makeup and is quite a 'brownish' shade of green), if it would be better using red oxide primer for this deeper green colour?

Edited by steve howe
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In this instance, I think that I would cut a couple of pieces of black plasticard and prime one and then paint both and allow to dry thoroughly and then compare the results.

 

 

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That sounds like an interesting exercise, i.e. comparing the same base coat on grey, black and red oxide primer. And then also maybe experiment with the number of coats applied.

 

Here's how not to do it:

 

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Some years ago I wanted to compare different brands, hoping to find a good GWR loco green for the pre-grouping period. In the end I didn't use any of them as none of them looked right inside on the layout - but in retrospect there are at least two mistakes here: (i) no primer, (ii) using thin plastic cups which meant the colour was also "back-lit".

 

Edited by Mikkel
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One thing worth mentioning on undercoats, it's worth checking manufacturers recommendations for them. When I was using Halfords rattle cans for primer, I tended to use the grey for.. grey topcoat and red oxide for bauxite/oxide freights. Whilst browsing the Phoenix Precision site on time I noticed they recommend white as primer for their paints that I was using!

And as luck would have it I now can't find the page on their site that stated this to cite a reference source.

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Good point, hadn't thought of that. When I test colours for brush painting I do so with my own preferred primer, and I can see how rattle can manufacturers might develop their colour specifications using their own standard primer colour(s). 

 

Edited by Mikkel
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I have a couple of these to build, very useful article thank you. One query: with the 'all brown' livery, were the droplights and window bolections painted reddish/mahogany colour as per the two-tone livery?

Steve

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That's what I have done Steve. It's hard to tell from black and white photos of the period of course, and the various period articles I have so far found on the 1908-12 livery do not mention the droplights and window colour. My 1978 version of Slinn's Great Western Way does not seem to mention their colour either.

 

On gwr.org.uk it says  "Droplights and bolections were finished in Indian Red", which I think is from after my time with that site, perhaps @Miss Prism can remember the source for it.

 

On gwrcoaches.org.uk, look for the section on coach liveries and then the useful "Liveries in Animation" page, where @Penrhos1920 shows red bolections for 1908-12. 

 

Edited by Mikkel
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On 13/03/2023 at 06:40, Mikkel said:

On gwrcoaches.org.uk, look for the section on coach liveries and then the useful "Liveries in Animation" page, where @Penrhos1920 shows red bolections for 1908-12. 

 

I tried to use a use a red brown that portrays varnished mahogany.  Without checking I think the colour is what html calls mahogany!

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It looks good to me. I aimed for something similar on my 1908 clerestory above, although the effect disappears somewhat with that livery!

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