Oxford Diecast/Golden Valley - YE Janus 0-6-0DE

[gpplumy]

I can confirm they are the air intakes with oil filters and they wernt exclusive to the ici ones

 

Reason I know they are the filters is I've fitted some

 

 

Cough.. Cough.

 

HPIM2213b by Allegheny1633, on Flickr

 

They look like Oil bath air filter housings to me but maybe the question we should be asking is are they Engine Air intakes?

 

Maybe ICI Janus where one offs. They had hinged cover on one bonnet only. It as identifiable by the handrail. The other bonnet had nothing.

https://flic.kr/p/bf44pc

 

P

[Porcy Mane]

I can confirm they are the air intakes with oil filters and they wernt exclusive to the ici ones

 

Reason I know they are the filters is I've fitted some

 

 

Ta muchly. Roddy makes a valid point about totally enclosing the intakes reducing the efficiency of intakes so it make me wonder if they were for engine air supply or something else. Positive pressure ventilation for the commutator chamber perhaps? The only internal phot I can find comes from earlier in the thread.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/105523-oxford-diecastgolden-valley-ye-janus-0-6-0de/page-3&do=findComment&comment=2195224

 

That pic appears to show the supercharger inlet being air supplied from a large plenum chamber via the elephants trunk.

 

P

Edited November 19, 2017 by Porcy Mane

[Gilbert]

My to-do list for the BSC version:

Fit Legomanbiffo sound

Modify and add driver

Fill in coupling holes and repaint wasp stripes

Remove numbers and Scunthorpe Works lettering

Add nameplates and Yorkshire plates from NP

Lightly weather

 

It should end up being a pretty nice generic BSC shunter.

Alex

Please share your sound fitting experience - I'm tempted but don't know whether to wait for the sound fitted RTR version

[newbryford]

Saw and heard one running on DC kits stand at Wakefield yesterday. Excellent model, looking forward to mine arriving.

 

Listened to the same one today.

 

I feel the need to put a sound fitted Janus on the Xmas list...............

 

Cheers,

Mick

[Mark Saunders]

I am very dissapointed by the way that this topic has developed over the last 24 hours especially over such a minor matter!

 

Mark Saunders

[Free At Last]

I don't know why some get all upset when someone points out errors, it's like they are the self appointed defenders of the manufacturers. I like reading these informed posts by people more knowledgeable than I and then I quietly make my own decision on whether or not I buy the said item. There is nothing wrong if you are happy with an incorrect model if it suits you, it is your money.

If a manufacturer has to make compromises I think they should state this, like ' we are making this model without an ashpan because...' or 'We have added splashers were there weren't any because...' and then there would be no need for anyone to point it out and we would know the reason why.

[Corbs]

I don't know why some get all upset when someone points out errors, it's like they are the self appointed defenders of the manufacturers. I like reading these informed posts by people more knowledgeable than I and then I quietly make my own decision on whether or not I buy the said item. There is nothing wrong if you are happy with an incorrect model if it suits you, it is your money.

If a manufacturer has to make compromises I think they should state this, like ' we are making this model without an ashpan because...' or 'We have added splashers were there weren't any because...' and then there would be no need for anyone to point it out and we would know the reason why.

 

Yes, it also makes me sad when someone says that this amazing resource we have absolutely free of charge is somehow 'the cause of the sad state of our hobby today'. I remember a time before RMWeb, when I was cut off from anyone else who modelled, too embarrassed about my hobby to talk about it to my schoolfriends for fear of getting teased. No free knowledge sharing or one-on-one interactions with other modellers whenever I liked.

It annoys me when people flounce off and remove their accounts. If it's annoying you, stop looking at it. The obsession with getting the last word in is irritating.

[Regularity]

Dave and I are exchanging cordial PMs over the matter. As far as we are concerned, the matter is closed, at least in public.

[Captain Kernow]

May I pose a another question, then, in the light of the previous comments about the Hornby financial interest in Oxford Rail and the possible consequences.

 

Given that the Janus is actually (as I understand it) a model marketed by Golden Valley Hobbies, rather than by Oxford Rail themselves, I am assuming that the remaining liveries already announced and on the Golden Valley Hobbies website will still be released.

 

Am I right in assuming that this is the case?

 

 

 

 

 

 

(I know I could ring them, but that would mean that I'd definitely have to get my wallet out, such is my lack of self-control at the moment.)

[Mod4]

Please can we remain civil and on topic as we do not want any further possibly inflammatory posts. Any further posts considered to be potentiality such will be removed.

 

PS some previous possibly inflammatory posts (and some of those quoting them) have now also been removed so that we can all continue to play nicely

[The Stationmaster]

May I pose a another question, then, in the light of the previous comments about the Hornby financial interest in Oxford Rail and the possible consequences.

 

Given that the Janus is actually (as I understand it) a model marketed by Golden Valley Hobbies, rather than by Oxford Rail themselves, I am assuming that the remaining liveries already announced and on the Golden Valley Hobbies website will still be released.

 

Am I right in assuming that this is the case?

 

 

 

 

 

 

(I know I could ring them, but that would mean that I'd definitely have to get my wallet out, such is my lack of self-control at the moment.)

 

I suppose it all depends if any input from the new regime at Hornby is likely to affect commissioning at Oxford (in the same way as it appears to be going with commissioning from Hornby, which appears to be retreating to the ways of its ancien regime from what I've heard).

[Ian Hargrave]

I suppose it all depends if any input from the new regime at Hornby is likely to affect commissioning at Oxford (in the same way as it appears to be going with commissioning from Hornby, which appears to be retreating to the ways of its ancien regime from what I've heard).

And I find that profoundly disturbing.If as you say it is true it will ruffle the feathers of some significant players who are building on commissioning links with Hornby That is bad news for all ....including Hornby who surely cannot afford to lose good will which is just beginning to return.One wonders why....

[adb968008]

See post 3302 in this thread http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/108082-hornbys-financial-updates-to-the-stock-market/page-133Hornby have acquired a majority shareholding in the owners of Oxford - anything more than that is pure speculation. If it ultimately means Oxford Rail gets merged in with Hornby I do not see how that affects the Janus; obvious issues with Adams Radial and Dean Goods but if Hornby were to breath on the range then that can be only be to the better.

Correct i’m Speculating 500 BSC Janus’s ( or is it Jani?) won’t last that long. But as the Peckett sold out to pre-sale in early 2016, and it’s expected March 2018 before we see the next, that’s a two year wait, i’m Not overly optimistic a second batch Janus will be on the horizon that soon, indeed even if they made a second BSC one.

 

I’ve bought two, I want two, i’m Not expecting a second to be made imminently, and not expecting a second version to appear in the future at the current price.

Edited November 20, 2017 by adb968008

[mikeharvey22]

I suppose it all depends if any input from the new regime at Hornby is likely to affect commissioning at Oxford (in the same way as it appears to be going with commissioning from Hornby, which appears to be retreating to the ways of its ancien regime from what I've heard).

 

Golden Valley might be a special case given the very close relationship between GVH and Oxford Rail/Hornby Hobbies personnel.

[corneliuslundie]

Back on the models themselves, the discussion on details and the various photographs posted illustrate only too well how difficult it is for a manufacturer to please people. Almost all the photos have shown locos after several years of work, minor alterations, slight variations between batches for different purchases, plenty or rust and grime, rather battered etc.

You can imagine the conversation:

"Research director: I now have all the information for no 34 as it was on 23 April 1973 late in the afternoon.

Sales director: Do you think that will sell well?

Research director: Well, I know of one person who would buy it.

Sales director: That's fine then, go ahead. And can you work on anther 25 variants for release at Christmas - oh, some people like to do their own weathering so do clean and dirty versions.

Research director: Actually the buyer I have in mind for this version models in EM.

etc etc

Jonathan

[Simon Bendall]

Two more Janus liveries announced this morning, Allied Steel & Wire and ICI maroon. Still £99.95 for DCC ready with DCC fitted and sound also available.

http://www.goldenvalleyhobbies.com/index.php?page=search_results&string=GV2016+GV2020+GV6016+GV6020

[Regularity]

Also, it depends on whether individuals are prepared to make modifications to their expensive purchases.

 

Back in the late 70s when moulded handrails and worse yet mounded painting guides were the norm, then a bit of replacement/removal was a gentle introduction into modifying RTR, which removed any reverence for the as-bought condition of the model.

 

The quality of most of the recent new releases is astounding, and to be applauded, but it can be rather intimidating.

[Porcy Mane]

You can imagine the conversation:

From the study of photographs and comparing to the model, I imagined the conversation must have been more along the lines of:

 

Golden Valley Guru (thinks):

Let's bring out a model of a prototype British shunter that has some novelty value and will sell like hot cakes.

 

Oxford Director:

We'll make it for you I'll get my research director (office intern) and sales director on it straight away.

 

Oxford Director to research director:

We are going to make a Model loco with a novelty factor. It's a Janus twin bonnet thing. There were lots of variations in chimneys, door, grills, buffers and the like but we can only have one body tooling, so come up with the info for the design director. I think it will be a good idea if you use the most common body style combination. We'll model that version so it has most universal appeal and sales potential. Let the Sales director know of my plans when you see him.

 

Research Director to Oxford Director (Next morning):

Jobs a good un boss. Design directors up to speed.

 

Design Director to Research director (Memo):

"I've sent you the cads. We've published them on the internet but some idjuts on there are questioning the accuracy. Can we sign off the research stage as complete as the budget director is telling me I need to start cutting metal."

 

Research Director:

We're good to go. Cut Metal.

 

(Scene) Production Meeting to discuss First Engineering prototype:

 

Oxford Director to Research Director:

I showed the EP to the Cardiff focus group yesterday.

They want to know,

 

Why have we chosen the rarely fitted large louvres to the bonnet doors nearest the cabin?

 

Why has it been introduced with the large (and rarely seen) exhaust cowls?

 

Why has the low yet very rarely seen fuel filler aperture been incorporated?

 

Why are two different types of buffer fitted to each buffer beam?

 

On a personal note I like the fitting of different radiator grills at both ends. It will limit the possibility of buyers saying we fitted the wrong grill. If buyers don't like one particular grill they can just turn to loco round.

 

Research Director to Oxford Director:

I chose the rarest aspects of individual prototypes and combined the whole into a generic body style that would appeal to all. After all you did say you wanted novel.

 

Oxford Director to Research Director:

(Cough, pregnant pause, clears throat) So what you're saying is; Your strategic aim was to standardise the infrastructures thus driving down operating costs through supply based consolidation and through leverage of group spend as well as exploiting best-in-class technologies and practices to provide a robust, scalable, and agile product thus giving an excellent customer experience.

 

Design Director:

!

Marketing Director:

?

 

Research Director:

Ermmm... Yes.

 

Budget Director(Accounts)

Maximise profit!

 

Sales Director

What's a Janus?

 

Oxford Director:

So, I'll ping those at golden Valley an Email telling them we're good to go. No need to go back to the drawing board and kick this project into the long grass. The research director went off piste with this task with a bit of thinking outside of the box. All the I's are dotted and the T's crossed, we can park this Janus project for a quick win, win. Research director; take a promotion. (To tea boy) Mine's two sugars and a ginger snap. Send for my chauffer, I'm off! (To Margate).

 

Design Director:

!

Marketing Director:

?

 

Research Director:

Ermmm... Thanks.

 

Budget Director(Accounts)

Maximise profit!

 

Sales Director

What's a Janus?

 

 

Some months later...

 

Golden Valley Guru to Tea boy:(By satellite phone)

Great Job. Any chance you could send me a copy of your research material?

 

Tea boy:

Errrm. Not really. I spilt the tea all over it.

 

P

Edited November 21, 2017 by Porcy Mane

[Regularity]

Who will be first to call theirs “Hugh”?

[Porcy Mane]

Who will be first to call theirs “Hugh”?

 

Plates are already ordered!

 

P

[Ruston]

Also, it depends on whether individuals are prepared to make modifications to their expensive purchases.

 

Back in the late 70s when moulded handrails and worse yet mounded painting guides were the norm, then a bit of replacement/removal was a gentle introduction into modifying RTR, which removed any reverence for the as-bought condition of the model.

 

The quality of most of the recent new releases is astounding, and to be applauded, but it can be rather intimidating.

I'm in violent agreement with this post.

 

If I buy a kit and want to model a particular prototype, or some variant that the kit doesn't provide for, I can source alternative buffers and I can drill a hole where one is needed, or fill one where it isn't,so I agree with the part about it being intimidating in that these RTR models come with very nice liveries and finely detailed lettering and so filing a hole, or changing buffers, is likely to ruin that.

 

When a manufacturer releases a model of a prototype variation I expect them to have made the appropriate changes to match the prototype variant, or livery, because it's what I would have done if I were building a kit.

 

Perhaps all this is par for the course when it comes to RTR, and perhaps it's all done as cheaply as possible to maximise profit at the expense of fidelity but it's all new to me and, personally, I'd rather pay a few quid more for a better product.  I also can't help but think that RTR shouldn't just be ready-to-run but should also be right in the details since you can't easily change them because to do so would be like building, painting, and lettering your kit and then chopping it up to alter it when you've supposedly finished it and having to paint it all over again.

 

I imagine that very few people are interested in the little details on these things, which is fair enough - each to his or her own but please, folks, don't jump on me or try to belittle me for saying these things if you don't happen to share my thoughts on it.

[gpplumy]

Woop allied wire and stee ftw, so happy with that one

[Regularity]

I'm in violent agreement with this post.

 

As indicated, we have taken our contretemps off-line, and had a very interesting discussion. At least, I think so, and I hope Dave thinks so, too.

 

On with the love-in...

If I buy a kit and want to model a particular prototype, or some variant that the kit doesn't provide for, I can source alternative buffers and I can drill a hole where one is needed, or fill one where it isn't,so I agree with the part about it being intimidating in that these RTR models come with very nice liveries and finely detailed lettering and so filing a hole, or changing buffers, is likely to ruin that.

 

When a manufacturer releases a model of a prototype variation I expect them to have made the appropriate changes to match the prototype variant, or livery, because it's what I would have done if I were building a kit.

 

Perhaps all this is par for the course when it comes to RTR, and perhaps it's all done as cheaply as possible to maximise profit at the expense of fidelity but it's all new to me and, personally, I'd rather pay a few quid more for a better product.  I also can't help but think that RTR shouldn't just be ready-to-run but should also be right in the details since you can't easily change them because to do so would be like building, painting, and lettering your kit and then chopping it up to alter it when you've supposedly finished it and having to paint it all over again.

 

I imagine that very few people are interested in the little details on these things, which is fair enough - each to his or her own but please, folks, don't jump on me or try to belittle me for saying these things if you don't happen to share my thoughts on it.

My major concern is that the basic dimensions be accurate, and main features correctly proportioned. Since my major modelling activities, such as they are at the moment, are North American outline S Scale, even a “cheap” RTR freight car (goods wagon for those not bilingual in English and, er, English) costs a bit, what with VAT and shipping (and VAT is applied to that as well!) so I am extremely grateful that in the late 70s I started down the path of buying things like Hornby class 25s and replacing cast details, and adding screw link couplings, etc, as it means I have no fear of buying an expensive brass engine, such as my USRA 0-6-0*, and taking it apart in the cause of minor detail variations, but also re-profiling the wheels and probably replacing the drive with something more discreet.

 

Most of my US friends (but bizarrely none of my Canadian friends) think I am brave to do this, and some wail that I am mad and have decreased the value of my model (bless ‘em: it has increased the value of theirs!) but I take the simple view that what I want to achieve is an accurate model. Whether the starting point is RTR, kit or raw materials is not always the point. The end result always is.

 

What I have found is that if something is massively inaccurate, it isn’t worth buying to begin with as the amount if work is more than starting from scratch. I have also found that the more “input” I provide, the more personal satisfaction I derive from the finished model, but the fewer models I have as a result. Thus, dimensionally accurate RTR can be a real timesaver, even if some of the details are wrong, missing, or in need of refinement.

 

In this day and age, where the hobby is no longer about selling toy train sets and getting kids to want extra items for birthdays/pocket money savings, but us about a serious adult pastime, then dimensional accuracy should be taken as read and Dave makes a valid point: why not be prepared to pay a bit more for the correct details, why not have the manufacturer design this in from the start?

 

It’s not a new idea: after Chris Ellis modified a class 33 into a class 26, Lima were so taken with the result that they borrowed his Model for a number of years, and worked out that by having some sections of the moulds replaceable, they could ring the changes, e.g. a different cab roof, and you have the basis for a class 27, different pattern of grilles at the cantrail, and you cover the type 2/type 3 variations. Not every single detail can be covered this way, but many could. Not only that, but if (for example) there were two patterns of grille on the nose, then have a receptacle on the nose, and apply the appropriate grille for a particular version. This would be manna from heaven for detail freaks, as it would be easy to remove the moulding to replace it with an etching from the “after market”.

 

If anyone thinks this is daft, it already happens in the USA and Canada, where the serious end of the hobby expects to see the correct detail variations, including the correct cab and dynamic brake blusters, match up with the paint scheme. Yes, these models do cost more, but many of them are superbly accurate and excellent runners. The extra cost is more to do with extra care and quality than having a multitude of variants, as the major units - the core part of the body, and the truck (bogie) side frames - see much more production, and therefore a better return on capital investment as well as a reduction in unit cost and therefore final sale price.

 

When I heard the phrase “design clever” being used by Hornby, I thought the above was what they were going to do. Alas, I was wrong, but there is no reason why a manufacturer could not pick up on this. It would quite possibly lead to more use being made of the main body moulds, as rather than simply producing new liveries, the details can be modified to suit. The differentiation between their main range and the “Railroad” range does indicate some of this thinking, but more could be done. And even the Railroad range is streets ahead of what was available to me as a young teenager. (Some of it is on a par with the Airfix and Palitiy Models which forced Hornby to up their game. Some if it is the old Airfix and Palitoy models...)

 

Threads like this one are important: it is not just about finding faults, it is about pointing out how they could have been avoided, and most importantly, it is about telling the manufacturers that we are not kids, we are adults who in return for a bit of respect from the manufacturers are prepared to pay a little bit more for an improved result.

 

*The purchase of which caused not a little disruption to domestic harmony, when SWMBO found out!

[Regularity]

Who will be first to call theirs “Hugh”?

  

Plates are already ordered!

 

Good man!

 

And in case anyone thinks this childish, they might be right but they should read Michael Palin’s sleeve liner notes on the first Travelling Wilburys album, or Eric Idle’s notes on the second. (Amusingly called “Vilume 3”. Oh how we laughed.) Unfortunately, there wasn’t a prototype called “Jampton”. Was there a GWR 2900 class called, “No, I always walk this way.”?

[Neil]

I'm in violent agreement with this post.

 

If I buy a kit and want to model a particular prototype, or some variant that the kit doesn't provide for, I can source alternative buffers and I can drill a hole where one is needed, or fill one where it isn't,so I agree with the part about it being intimidating in that these RTR models come with very nice liveries and finely detailed lettering and so filing a hole, or changing buffers, is likely to ruin that.

 

When a manufacturer releases a model of a prototype variation I expect them to have made the appropriate changes to match the prototype variant, or livery, because it's what I would have done if I were building a kit.

 

Perhaps all this is par for the course when it comes to RTR, and perhaps it's all done as cheaply as possible to maximise profit at the expense of fidelity but it's all new to me and, personally, I'd rather pay a few quid more for a better product.  I also can't help but think that RTR shouldn't just be ready-to-run but should also be right in the details since you can't easily change them because to do so would be like building, painting, and lettering your kit and then chopping it up to alter it when you've supposedly finished it and having to paint it all over again.

 

I imagine that very few people are interested in the little details on these things, which is fair enough - each to his or her own but please, folks, don't jump on me or try to belittle me for saying these things if you don't happen to share my thoughts on it.

 

I understand and totally respect your viewpoint Dave. There is another argument that without the one body style fits all liveries approach the model may not have been produced at all. I wonder if the debate about the compromises in the model says most about how finely balanced the tipping point from glass half full to glass half empty can be.  One thing to take away from this thread (for me and perhaps many others) is a much greater knowledge of the prototype loco.