lyneux Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 When the Oxford HST trailers come along would it still not be a valid comparison to the lima/Hornby coaches as frankly the only key visual differences are likely to be the vents and the absence of buffers. Its perfectly acceptable to compare with whats already available -most folk know and appreciate the differences without being spoon fed them but the point is the basic coach template is the same. Sure, but I wouldn't sell my Hornby/Lima ones just yet. The Oxford HST trailers may never happen... conflict of interests with the CEO of both companies... cough cough... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lochnagar Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 I won't be replacing any of my Hornby MK3s with the new Oxford ones. Because the Hornby MK3 is a Mk3. Oxford have made a MK3A. Simples. I really like the oxford ones, despite a few little niggles which I can sort out, so my rake of Oxford MK3As are on order and should be with me soon.. lol Alex Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Reid Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 (edited) Already sorted on my Hornby ones. They make for an easy and interesting addition. HST 3.jpg The Oxford Mk 3s look pretty good to me, but I don't think they're good enough for me to ditch my Hornby ones, which I've spent many hours improving, with Lazerglaze windows and frames, painted interiors, fitting of passengers, respraying, etc. The next improvement is to fit corridor connections and then, finally, interior lights. I might have been tempted if the Oxford ones had had lights. The grey on the Oxford ones definitely looks too grey for me and I don't fancy respraying yet another rake of Mk 3s. Having said that, they look good value for money, but as others have said they're far from perfect, which is actually a relief for me as I would have been in the market for 30 or so, which even at £30 a coach would have added up. It looks like the Bachmann Mk 2f's are going to cost me a fortune as it is. Ah but have you got the destination labels in the right place? (Lets see how many were paying attention back in the day) Edited January 21, 2018 by Bob-65b Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
royaloak Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 I might get an Oxford one and renumber it 42382 or 42383* and plonk it in a HST set. * other numbers available depending which area/TOC you are modelling. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frobisher Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Sure, but I wouldn't sell my Hornby/Lima ones just yet. The Oxford HST trailers may never happen... conflict of interests with the CEO of both companies... cough cough... He's not the CEO of Oxford... Also, wouldn't it be an actual conflict of interests to postpone/cancel a competing product of one company in favour of another that you are a CEO of despite said product being announced and in development before you were CEO of the company you were making the decision in the favour of? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Reid Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 I honestly could see the Oxford Rail HST Mk3's not happening (were they ever actually confirmed)? as really apart from the bogies and the end detail are they really much better? I'd guess you might be more likely to see a bit of cross pollination. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatofludham Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Yes Oxford indicated they had designed the Mk3 to replicate all versions including the Chiltern power door examples, although I'm not sure if their proposed Mk3 cannon includes the CIE Mk3s or the later IE suburban versions. They showed some composite line drawings to illustrate what was in mind which clearly highlighted the differences. I can't see any reason why Oxford won't produce the HST Mk3s, they've expended money on research and CADs, Hornby are only investing in the holding company, not taking over Oxford as some seem to think, and to be honest it's an open goal for Oxford as the range of liveries available to the HST Mk3 fleet will keep them happy for years to come, far more than the loco hauled fleet. People seem to forget that Oxford Rail have invested a lot of money in this project pre-dating Lyndon's appointment to Hornby CEO and as he and his SWMBO are between them still the majority shareholders in the holding company I doubt they will want to flush that investment down the u-bend just because he's trying to sort out Hornby. It's their personal moolah they will be writing off after all. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIRCLASS80 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Oxford staff at Warley 2017 confirmed that Irish Rail versions would be produced but how authentic remains to be seen. Time will tell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 All of them did except the single Buffet in a Anglia set painted in 1994. Its been done to death. All Mk3 (except prototype and the single Anglia buffet) had silver frames when they were in Intercity. And there was no difference in shades of grey!!! And the ex prototype coaches ended up in HST or Royal trains anyway and never as loco hauled stock which these models are. You obviously didn't follow the earlier debate on this. Many Mk3As had painted window frames. There was no real pattern to it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waverley47708 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) Pretty sure others with better knowledge than me have stated that the light (and dark grey) on Intercity Executive, Swallow and ScotRail was the same. Therefore as I was wanting a rake of ScotRail coaches the light grey on the first release is of interest to me. I am pretty sure a few years ago Oxford did a questionnaire regarding their then proposed Mk3s. This included what liveries people wanted, and pretty sure they asked about the colour and whether people's preferences was that it was authentic to the real colour or that it matched existing models. If it turns out not to match the real light grey (NB I said if) it may be because we "voted" for the livery to match existing models. My Lima (with detailed interiors, passengers and lazerglase tinted and flush Windows) and my converted DBSO (resprayed with railmatch light grey) match livery wise my Bachmann 477. Think I will wait til I see what the ScotRail ones look like with a Bachmann 477 and the long awaited Bachmann DBSO before buying a rake or two. Since Executive, Swallow and ScotRail all had the same light grey I am assuming the ScotRail ones will come out the same as the current one. If they light grey is wrong, while they may alter later batches of what I assume may be more popular Intercity liveries I wonder if ScotRail versions would be redone. Would also like to see more info on comments about the coupling gap in relation to the current Hornby one's. Interested to see if the ScotRail versions will have Central Door Locking lights and the wee handle which I presume was associated with the CDL system, hoping not. Hopefully Oxford will be at Glasgow next month and maybe we can ask about these issues. Edited January 22, 2018 by Waverley47708 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonC Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 While the coaches look a good effort to me, I wont be replacing my Hornby Mk3s just yet. Pros - Great price, brake discs on wheels, correct roof for Mk3A, nice coach end detail and cabling Cons - Dark grey looks a little dark, no silver round the windows, light grey questionable (but better than Hornbys effort!!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lochnagar Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) Pretty sure others with better knowledge than me have stated that the light (and dark grey) on Intercity Executive, Swallow and ScotRail was the same. Therefore as I was wanting a rake of ScotRail coaches the light grey on the first release is of interest to me. I am pretty sure a few years ago Oxford did a questionnaire regarding their then proposed Mk3s. This included what liveries people wanted, and pretty sure they asked about the colour and whether people's preferences was that it was authentic to the real colour or that it matched existing models. If it turns out not to match the real light grey (NB I said if) it may be because we "voted" for the livery to match existing models. My Lima (with detailed interiors, passengers and lazerglase tinted and flush Windows) and my converted DBSO (resprayed with railmatch light grey) match livery wise my Bachmann 477. Think I will wait til I see what the ScotRail ones look like with a Bachmann 477 and the long awaited Bachmann DBSO before buying a rake or two. Since Executive, Swallow and ScotRail all had the same light grey I am assuming the ScotRail ones will come out the same as the current one. If they light grey is wrong, while they may alter later batches of what I assume may be more popular Intercity liveries I wonder if ScotRail versions would be redone. Would also like to see more info on comments about the coupling gap in relation to the current Hornby one's. Interested to see if the ScotRail versions will have Central Door Locking lights and the wee handle which I presume was associated with the CDL system, hoping not. Hopefully Oxford will be at Glasgow next month and maybe we can ask about these issues. Intercity executive and scortail were 'executive dark grey' upper bodysides. Swallow (1987 on) was 'falcon grey' which is darker. Same rule for all swallow locos and stock. So the upper colour on the Oxfords is actually pretty close. As is the executive light grey (which applies to all three liveries on the lower bodysides). I'm actually quite impressed. So if anyone looks at pics of intercity executive ones the colour IS different. Replace the couplings with Bachmann wagon couplings and they're now close coupled. Or Kadees. Edited January 22, 2018 by Lochnagar Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Midland Mole @ Footplate Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Just a little public service announcement for buyers and retailers to double check on theirs, out of the 12 coaches we received (6 of each) all but 3 had bits that had fallen off in the box. It is mainly affecting the steps under the end doors, but also some buffers and electrical connectors under the ends. Most of the bits were found loose, but at least one step is missing completely. It looks like bits have probably worked themselves loose during transit, without any adhesives holding them in place it seems inevitable sadly. As long as all the bits are in the box, it should be an easy fix for modellers to stick them back on. Just a heads up to let everyone know to check. Alex Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tractor_37260 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) Intercity executive and scortail were 'executive dark grey' upper bodysides. Swallow (1987 on) was 'falcon grey' which is darker. Same rule for all swallow locos and stock. So the upper colour on the Oxfords is actually pretty close. As is the executive light grey (which applies to all three liveries on the lower bodysides). I'm actually quite impressed. So if anyone looks at pics of intercity executive ones the colour IS different. Em sorry can't agree - AFAIK only Swallow locos/HST's had Falcon Grey upper bodysides, coaches just had the brandings up-dated to INTERCITY together with smaller numbers, the shades of Grey remained Ex Light and Dark Grey - see posts #1009 #1010 #1011 above............ Edited January 22, 2018 by tractor_37260 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted January 22, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 22, 2018 For £29.50 these look superb. Id given up on them and went and bought a Lima Scotrail set , but I may yet supplement them. Companies bringing out fine coaches at reasonable cost deserve support. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonC Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 when I've looked at photos I've thought it difficult to determine what is a darker shade of grey and what is just more faded or weathered between cleaner INTERCITY branded coaches and 'Intercity' or whether on some coaches just the branding was changed rather than a full repaint Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 For £29.50 these look superb. Id given up on them and went and bought a Lima Scotrail set , but I may yet supplement them. Companies bringing out fine coaches at reasonable cost deserve support. I agree and when they do HST versions in Blue and Grey, I'll be supporting them. These look great. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tractor_37260 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) Just to put the grey debate to bed. I found the paint specs for the Intercity livery. It seems in Jan 1988 they changed the paint spec for the dark grey from a matt to a gloss version of the same colour. That is why people may think its a different shade. If the had changed the colour for the paint, they would have changed the colour for the ink as well. Interesting - worthy of note is the two different BR paint specs / catalogue No's for the Dark Grey : 1987 was spec 81-201 but 1988 was spec 81-246 these are different paint shades, regardless of being a Matt/Satin or Gloss finish. Also of interest is that Howes Railmatch paint shades are - R201 Exec Dark Grey and R246 Falcon Grey.... so perhaps it is possible that 81-246 Falcon Grey (Gloss) was used Jan 1988 onwards on coaches that required re-painting, with brandings and numbers just updated on other coaches. Edited January 22, 2018 by tractor_37260 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew F Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 I like the bit at the end "Where these colours are not available, other colours will have to be used". ..I've done that a few times. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
black and decker boy Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Interesting - worthy of note is the two different BR paint specs / catalogue No's for the Dark Grey : 1987 was spec 81-201 but 1988 was spec 81-246 these are different paint shades, regardless of being a Matt/Satin or Gloss finish. Also of interest is that Howes Railmatch paint shades are - R201 Exec Dark Grey and R246 Falcon Grey.... so perhaps it is possible that 81-246 Falcon Grey (Gloss) was used Jan 1988 onwards on coaches that required re-painting, with brandings and numbers just updated on other coaches.An interesting link via Railmatch is their 4mm:1ft paint supplier is HM Guest of Manchester which supplied BR with its 12”:1ft paint Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Reid Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 An interesting link via Railmatch is their 4mm:1ft paint supplier is HM Guest of Manchester which supplied BR with its 12”:1ft paint BR was prevented (where possible) from single sourcing so for T&RS paints there were several companies on the books over the years beyond HMG like T&R Williamson's and Goodlass Hall, Craig & Rose etc. some being quite local to the main works. Though they all had to produce the colours to standard colour panels... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamish_barb Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Any idea when the Swallow MK3s for the HSTs will be released? Hornby have announced the new Swallow HST so it would be a nice purchase. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YesTor Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 (edited) I like the bit at the end "Where these colours are not available, other colours will have to be used". ..I've done that a few times. Hehehe, also translates as "Where these colours are not available, any old pot of paint will do...!" Edited January 23, 2018 by YesTor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YesTor Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 (edited) It seems in Jan 1988 they changed the paint spec for the dark grey from a matt to a gloss version of the same colour. That is why people may think its a different shade. Hmmm, interesting, but to be fair I truly have no recollection of seeing any stock in matt dark grey of any kind (locos or coaches). Is it at all possible that the spec was revised before any stock actually received matt dark grey, as there are only two months between the initial spec and the supposed revisions? Edited January 23, 2018 by YesTor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir TophamHatt Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 Hornby have announced the new Swallow HST so it would be a nice purchase. Another new one? I thought their all singing all dancing new tooling was it... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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