RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted January 28, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 28, 2016 (edited) But Peco have! It's described as OO/HO in here. https://gallery.mailchimp.com/447cc01a867103118302481e1/files/PECO_News_Spring_Rep_2016.pdf Many thanks for the link. From that page we can now see that the "bullhead" rail is as I imagined -- it will actually be a flat-bottom section with a narrow foot (Peco's 0 gauge bullhead rail is similar). The inner jaw of the chair has clearly been modified to clear overscale wheel flanges. Also we can now measure the sleeper length more accurately. Using the ruler tool in Templot it appears to be 31.75mm (7ft-11.1/4in) at the base (slightly less at the surface allowing for the mould draft angle): Martin. Edited January 28, 2016 by martin_wynne 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junctionmad Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 so its not proper bullhead , more like raised flat bottom , is that right Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted January 28, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 28, 2016 (edited) so its not proper bullhead , more like raised flat bottom , is that right Hi Dave, Until we see the actual product we don't know. But the Peco "bullhead" rail in 0 gauge is very similar. It looks acceptable as representing bullhead -- it is not simply raised, the foot is much narrower than for flat-bottom rail. The reason is to allow the use of conventional rail joiners (probably Peco's existing N gauge joiners -- which some modellers use on C&L bullhead rail, although they don't fit very well on a proper bullhead foot section). regards, Martin. Edited January 28, 2016 by martin_wynne Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derekstuart Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Thanks Martin I did not realise until recently just how much track realism is affected by colour of timbers. I have dozens of sleepers in varying shades at the moment trying to work out what paints/dyes achieve what look from old and worn to new and creosoted. Sorry all for the o/t. Hi Derek, Yes it's mine, and yes you can download it. Thanks for asking. I'm glad you like it. regards, Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oakydoke Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Would someone be so kind as to explain to a dummy (me, in fact) what Unifrog is... A French student perhaps? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeeleyBridge Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 00, HO and Peco rail are all my mind and body needs. (With apologies to Mr Dury). It seems a pity that when I measure 00 track with my 4mm/1ft scale rule it comes out at 4ft 1½" but other than me, only Martin seems to have noticed. I can pretend it's standard gauge, whilst making various wheeshing and wooshing ( with apologies to Thomas & Rev Awdry) noises and pretending my locos actually run on steam. I have no doubt that Peco buyers will continue buying Peco and others not, but until there is actually something on the shelves which can be converted into a train set / model railway or whatever speculation is futile. (With apologies to the Borg). I'm off now to have a sense of humour gauge check, as its back to back measurement seems a bit wide for RMWeb today. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted January 28, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 28, 2016 (edited) Depending on ones modelling period, the lack of bullhead points isn't that much of an issue, at least not immediately. There is no shortage of places where the main line(s) were relaid in flat bottom rail half a century ago but bullhead survived in loops and sidings. Quite a bit has disappeared in the last decade or so but it is still not that uncommon if you keep your eyes open. The engineer's siding at Honiton (lifted as part of the re-control project) was bullhead to the end, much of it on concrete sleepers - wonder if Peco will ever do that? Also, I recall that one of the platform roads at Paddington had, for many years, one bullhead rail and one flat bottom - definitely one for the self-builder! All that said, I think we will see the first Peco bullhead points quite soon after the plain track, probably the medium radius RH and LH t begin with as I gather they are the best sellers in the existing range. John Edited January 28, 2016 by Dunsignalling 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted January 28, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 28, 2016 Quite a bit has disappeared in the last decade or so but it is still not that uncommon if you keep your eyes open. Hi John, Bullhead track is still be installed new in places. See for example this at Exeter: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/59971-good-news-from-riverside/ regards, Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 4630 Posted January 28, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 28, 2016 (edited) . Edited November 15, 2016 by 4630 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted January 28, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 28, 2016 Hi John, Bullhead track is still be installed new in places. See for example this at Exeter: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/59971-good-news-from-riverside/ regards, Martin. That came as a bit of a surprise, though I haven't been near Riverside for ages - was it new or recycled? Thanks John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted January 28, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 28, 2016 Hi John, Bullhead track is still be installed new in places. See for example this at Exeter: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/59971-good-news-from-riverside/ regards, Martin. Thanks for reminding me of CK's wonderful set of photo's Martin. prototype for everything. Anyway I am very pleased with this new Peco product (no release date that will be 'revealed' at the moment.......) as I'm doing Seaton Juction and area in 1960ish and that had all sorts, including FB 60' on wooden sleepers on the through mains, BH on wooden sleepers on the Platform loops, FB 60' on concrete and some on wood sleepers on parts of Honiton Incline and probably BH on wood in all the Yard areas. There is even some BH on concrete blocks on the Incline Refuge Siding. Unfortunately I believe most of the pointwork, slips and crossings were BH from observation of photo's I have. However, this will not be a public layout and it isn't P4 so I chose Peco for simplicity and cost and it suits me fine thanks. The view from 3' rule will apply anyway. I just hope this Bullhead arrives soon enough for me to use it. If it does not.....,hey ho! Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 The upper part of the Conwy Valley line was relaid with brandnew bullhead track a few years ago. I photographed it stacked in Roman Bridge 'yard'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
locoholic Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Bullhead is still listed as available from the Rail Products and Services division of Tata Steel. But is it OO or HO?! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Abel Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 This stuff of course will not be available in the US, perhaps via Canada though.... I'm wondering whether with a bit of work spacing out the sleepers, this, and the inevitable points, would be of any use for the O-16.5 narrow gauge lines that used BH chaired track? Jeff, Of the two drivable model shops near me, one doesn't bother to carry PECO flex, only PECO code 100, 75 and 83 points (at really extortionate prices) and the other has a supply that fluctuates wildly, and charges around $6 a yard when they have it. Do what I do/did for large volumes, Hattons have the stuff for 55 quid a 25-piece box (Code 100, Code 75 about 4 quid more) with VAT deducted which comes out at barely more than 3USD a yard. Tack on around 13 quid for 2-day air and you're still only looking at around 4USD a yard delivered to your door. Even trying to get it "US locally" from most US model shops/eBay vendors it's still around 6USD a yard delivered from anywhere I've found (happy to be corrected, but I unless I go for replacing, see below, I don't need it in bulk any more so drive and pay the 6USD if I need a yard)... I really like the announcement and the direction it takes us, and will possibly slowly replace some of my track, BUT, with about 100 yds or more of flex down, I don't think the CEO would be too excited about me ripping it all out and replacing it, even IF I presented it as a permanent way improvement! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilloverland Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 (edited) I'm very pleased with this announcement - as an 'average' modeller I don't have the time, skill or indeed money to hand build points (or order bespoke) - but I do want my track to look a bit more accurate than the current streamline offerings - after all, look how far we have come with RTR stock over the last few years! edited to remove typos Edited January 29, 2016 by Gilloverland 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 I'm very pleased with this announcement - as an 'average' modeller I don't have the time, skill or indeed money to hand build points (or order bespoke) - but I do want my track to look a bit more accurate than the current streamlline offerings - afterall, look how far we have come come with RTR stock over the last few years! Look, it's another one 'of us.' !!!! Interesting how this announcement has started to pull more new adopters from the latent market, in a way that the more esoteric threads didn't! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubber duck Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Add my thanks to Peco and hope the range soon expands to include trackwork with flat bottom rail with concrete sleepers .That'll do me! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted January 28, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 28, 2016 I'm very pleased with this announcement - as an 'average' modeller I don't have the time, skill or indeed money to hand build points (or order bespoke) - but I do want my track to look a bit more accurate than the current streamlline offerings - afterall, look how far we have come come with RTR stock over the last few years! Got it in one! More good sense in those two lines than in umpteen bad-tempered pages of a certain other thread. Well said that man. J. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted January 28, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 28, 2016 One of Peco's designers was posting quite openly about some of the reasoning on NGRM but after people getting their knickers in a twist he was politely asked not to any more. Now that informed source that fed back directly can't clarify things so easily as it all has to go via the official announcements. Social media froth and getting worked up about it doesn't help them change, polite letters with research to back it up are all they will listen to. They are in the business already with lots of contacts in the trade and it may come as a surprise to some that that is part of their market research The amount of positive reaction suggests they've got it right already. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific231G Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 I suspect they're probably sticking to the joint 00/H0 label, so as not to queer the patch for the pre-existing 00/H0 labelled lines. On the other hand, maybe they're now trying to pull the wool over H0 modeller's eyes, just like they've been doing for 00 modellers over the years. . There will be some market for this in H0 as BH wasn't just used in Britain. Maybe half of France's railways used to use it and, because sleeper spacings varied so much, it'll be perfectly acceptable for H0. C&L and SMP are already quite widely used there for Ep 3 and earlier. The sort of modellers who would know where to use it in preference to Vignoles rail are not the sort to have any wool pulled over their eyes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 There will be some market for this in H0 as BH wasn't just used in Britain..... ......The sort of modellers who would know where to use it in preference to Vignoles rail are not the sort to have any wool pulled over their eyes. It was meant to be a joke David. However, if as you say, there's a potential H0 market out there for this bullhead rail, then that is all to the good and hopefully might encourage Peco to press on with padding out the range with turnouts etc. One lives in hope. regards Ron . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junctionmad Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 (edited) One of Peco's designers was posting quite openly about some of the reasoning on NGRM what what did he say ? dave Edited January 28, 2016 by Junctionmad Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 There will be some market for this in H0 as BH wasn't just used in Britain. Maybe half of France's railways used to use it and, because sleeper spacings varied so much, it'll be perfectly acceptable for H0. C&L and SMP are already quite widely used there for Ep 3 and earlier. The sort of modellers who would know where to use it in preference to Vignoles rail are not the sort to have any wool pulled over their eyes. Not just that, but there a quite a lot of us already in foreign climes, but looking to model British layouts! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gelboy45 Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Congratulations, Peco. Gerry (Well that's all that needs to be said!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 With such an apparent demand for 00 gauge bullhead track (which I find totally understandable), why haven't those already established in the marketplace for a long time (eg C&L and SMP) produced ready-made pointwork off the shelf? Or is it too late for them now, with the arrival of PECO who will take a large % of the market I'm sure. Just wondering..... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts