Hornby Class 87 - Confirmed Newly Tooled Version for 2017 !

[tinsley-toton]

Just had my pre-orders for 87006 and 87009 cancelled by Hattons 

 

We're sorry to inform you that we have had to cancel your pre-order(s) for:

R30030 Class 87 87006 "City of Glasgow" in BR large logo grey
R30031 Class 87 87009 "City of Birmingham" in Intercity Executive livery

We are not able to acquire the stock to allocate to your pre-order. We always endeavour to honour all pre-orders but in this situation, we are unable to do so.

 

T-T

[Pete the Elaner]

27 minutes ago, tinsley-toton said:

Just had my pre-orders for 87006 and 87009 cancelled by Hattons 

 

We're sorry to inform you that we have had to cancel your pre-order(s) for:

R30030 Class 87 87006 "City of Glasgow" in BR large logo grey
R30031 Class 87 87009 "City of Birmingham" in Intercity Executive livery

We are not able to acquire the stock to allocate to your pre-order. We always endeavour to honour all pre-orders but in this situation, we are unable to do so.

 

T-T

 

There is a thread discussing Hornby items pre-ordered through Hattons. The problem is not limited to the class 87.

 

[ThaneofFife]

yep mine were too.....i re-ordered with Kernows.

[VXDH92]

Does anyone have recommendations for good DCC decoders to use with the Hornby Class 87? I've got Hattons 8 pins in a couple of mine and they do not work well at low speed. As gently as you turn up the controller, they go from nothing to something like a 10mph scale speed which doesn't look right at all! Bizarrely they don't seem to do the same thing in my Heljan 86s. Links would be welcome too! Cheers.

Edited September 11, 2021 by VXDH92
Typo

[Opelsi]

ESU Lokpilot V4 in mine!

[ThaneofFife]

Just seen on the website preorder for 87006 and 87009 for Winter 2022.  Dang i thought thesezwere penned to be here this winter......plus the price is up by £30!

Edited October 23, 2021 by ThaneofFife
Error

[InterCity80s]

The "Coming Soon" section of the website says they're due in May 2022: https://uk.Hornby.com/catalogue/coming-soon?spring=true&page=1

[No Decorum]

On 23/10/2021 at 20:23, ThaneofFife said:

Just seen on the website preorder for 87006 and 87009 for Winter 2022.  Dang i thought thesezwere penned to be here this winter......plus the price is up by £30!

So the increase is to cover the cost of a decent space for a speaker and a more versatile decoder with proper lighting control. No? I didn’t think so. Wake up, Hornby!

[Wolf27]

I'm surprised I hadnt posted this earlier, which I did in May 2020. My backdated Inter City Executive liveried 87 with a LegomanBiffo V5 sound chip. It has twin sugarcube speakers behind the underframe gubbins.

 

 

cheers

 

Shane

 

[wombatofludham]

9 hours ago, No Decorum said:

So the increase is to cover the cost of a decent space for a speaker and a more versatile decoder with proper lighting control. No? I didn’t think so. Wake up, Hornby!

I was laughing all the way to incontinence when I saw they described the 87 as "sound ready".  Seriously, Hornby need to up their game with DCC.  8 pin is so last century...

[Cbpete]

Hi Guys,

Does anyone know how to turn the cab lights on when fitted with a decoder?

cheers

[GordonC]

13 hours ago, Cbpete said:

Hi Guys,

Does anyone know how to turn the cab lights on when fitted with a decoder?

cheers

 

I dont think it has a cab light does it? Its 8 pin DCC so lighting functions via decoder are limited

[No Decorum]

13 hours ago, Cbpete said:

Hi Guys,

Does anyone know how to turn the cab lights on when fitted with a decoder?

cheers

After installing a decoder (with difficulty) I found as follows. The cab lights are directional. They are lit with the headlights set to daytime running and not lit with the headlights turned to night-time running. They are not controllable either with a switch or by a decoder. The day and night modes of the headlights are not controllable by a decoder but are set using a switch underneath the loco. The tail lights are not switchable.

[Pete the Elaner]

On 25/10/2021 at 19:35, wombatofludham said:

I was laughing all the way to incontinence when I saw they described the 87 as "sound ready".  Seriously, Hornby need to up their game with DCC.  8 pin is so last century...

 

There is a location marked for a speaker, on the back of the PCB, but...

There is virtually no clearance between the board & the cardan shaft. Certainly not near enough space for a speaker.

You could choose to remove the cardan shaft & lose half the tractive effort in order to have sound, or butcher the loco elsewhere.

 

So I agree with you than advertising this model as "sound ready" is misleading.

 

 

Hornby will not fit a 21-pin socket to their loco while they only have an 8-pin model in their range. They did make a 21-pin (Sapphire) but it has been discontinued. I assume this was through poor sales, which is not surprising because if you want a better decoder than their standard offering, you would know enough about decoders to know that you can buy better for less.

I Simon Kohler answer a while back that Hornby did not want to re-standardise to 21-pin in case 18 soon becomes the new standard. Although I understand this, I dislike it & disagree that it is a good idea. This unfortunately means that when buying Hornby, we are stuck with 8 pin sockets & the limitations they bring for the foreseeable future.

[GordonC]

44 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

There is a location marked for a speaker, on the back of the PCB, but...

There is virtually no clearance between the board & the cardan shaft. Certainly not near enough space for a speaker.

You could choose to remove the cardan shaft & lose half the tractive effort in order to have sound, or butcher the loco elsewhere.

 

So I agree with you than advertising this model as "sound ready" is misleading.

 

 

Hornby will not fit a 21-pin socket to their loco while they only have an 8-pin model in their range. They did make a 21-pin (Sapphire) but it has been discontinued. I assume this was through poor sales, which is not surprising because if you want a better decoder than their standard offering, you would know enough about decoders to know that you can buy better for less.

I Simon Kohler answer a while back that Hornby did not want to re-standardise to 21-pin in case 18 soon becomes the new standard. Although I understand this, I dislike it & disagree that it is a good idea. This unfortunately means that when buying Hornby, we are stuck with 8 pin sockets & the limitations they bring for the foreseeable future.

 

But the only 21-pin models they had in the Hornby range would have been sound-fitted already so they might pick up some sales in other manufacturers locos but buyers of other manufacturers will probably know a bit more about other DCC providers too. So surely it'd be chicken and egg situation of less point in producing DCC decoders without matching brand locos to fit them in.

 

And with the pace of change there will always be something coming over the hill that could be 'the next big thing' so holding off improving their DCC provision is really showing the brand up against the competition

[brushman47544]

If anyone is looking for the original Hornby releases 87010 King Arthur (INTERCITY livery) and 87035 Robert Burns (BR blue), Hattons has a few new ones in stock.

[wombatofludham]

On 27/10/2021 at 12:43, Pete the Elaner said:

 

I Simon Kohler answer a while back that Hornby did not want to re-standardise to 21-pin in case 18 soon becomes the new standard. Although I understand this, I dislike it & disagree that it is a good idea. This unfortunately means that when buying Hornby, we are stuck with 8 pin sockets & the limitations they bring for the foreseeable future.

I do wonder if Hornby's 8 pin "old skool" approach might be driven by their obsessive compulsive infatuation with steam outline.  Unless you wire up the tender, with all that entails in day to day running, or have a clever idea like the slidy-outy PCB used by Dapol the complexities of which would give Hornby conniptions, really (speaking as someone who needs to DCC fit steam for "Dolgellau") a steam loco is difficult to chip with anything larger than 8pin within the loco body.  If the bulk of your output is pretty kettles, then it probably makes some sense to fit 8pin in everything when buying in components, despite the relatively low cost of said items.

Whatever the reason, they are missing a trick not doing a TTS sound chip for the 87.  I was pleasantly surprised by their TTS chips for the Valenta HST and recently tried one of their Class 31 chips with a speaker upgrade (as demonstrated by the Hornby magazine guys) and again was more than happy.  Releasing a sound chip is a good way of bringing in extra profit on top of the loco sale, you would have thought they would have made an effort to do something.

[No Decorum]

38 minutes ago, wombatofludham said:

I do wonder if Hornby's 8 pin "old skool" approach might be driven by their obsessive compulsive infatuation with steam outline.  Unless you wire up the tender, with all that entails in day to day running, or have a clever idea like the slidy-outy PCB used by Dapol the complexities of which would give Hornby conniptions, really (speaking as someone who needs to DCC fit steam for "Dolgellau") a steam loco is difficult to chip with anything larger than 8pin within the loco body.  If the bulk of your output is pretty kettles, then it probably makes some sense to fit 8pin in everything when buying in components, despite the relatively low cost of said items.

Whatever the reason, they are missing a trick not doing a TTS sound chip for the 87.  I was pleasantly surprised by their TTS chips for the Valenta HST and recently tried one of their Class 31 chips with a speaker upgrade (as demonstrated by the Hornby magazine guys) and again was more than happy.  Releasing a sound chip is a good way of bringing in extra profit on top of the loco sale, you would have thought they would have made an effort to do something.

Yes, I have been pleasantly surprised by Hornby’s TTS decoders in diesels. They aren’t perfect in a few respects (“TT” = twin track, for example) but I find them acceptable and the sound quality is good. However, if Hornby were to provide for any sort of sound in an 87, the main casting does rather need to be altered to provide a larger slot for a decoder and reasonable space for a speaker. If we leave aside DCC, the control of lights and the pantograph, the 87 is quite a good model and, in my humble opinion, rather better than some recent kettles. The Lord Nelsons and Thompson A2s are not very pretty. Note that I’m talking about the models of the Thompsons and making no comment about the prototype.

[GordonC]

56 minutes ago, No Decorum said:

Yes, I have been pleasantly surprised by Hornby’s TTS decoders in diesels. They aren’t perfect in a few respects (“TT” = twin track, for example) but I find them acceptable and the sound quality is good. However, if Hornby were to provide for any sort of sound in an 87, the main casting does rather need to be altered to provide a larger slot for a decoder and reasonable space for a speaker. If we leave aside DCC, the control of lights and the pantograph, the 87 is quite a good model and, in my humble opinion, rather better than some recent kettles. The Lord Nelsons and Thompson A2s are not very pretty. Note that I’m talking about the models of the Thompsons and making no comment about the prototype.

 

agreed, it looks like an 87 and is a good model, but I cant help feeling frustrated that it could and should be so much better in the DCC and lighting provision being a newly designed model. Another example of Hornby snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

[wombatofludham]

I must admit to being a fan of their new 87 and have five (plus a chassis under a Heljan 86 body which has been renumbered as an 86/1),  I will give credit to Hornby when they turn out something good, despite my criticism of their lacklustre attitude to non water boiling stock.  Unfortunately as others have said, the woeful DCC provision really does let the model down - but it won't stop me getting "City of Birmingham" when it hits the UK.

 

[wombatofludham]

1 hour ago, No Decorum said:

Yes, I have been pleasantly surprised by Hornby’s TTS decoders in diesels. They aren’t perfect in a few respects (“TT” = twin track, for example) but I find them acceptable and the sound quality is good. 

I always thought TTS stood for tiny tinny speakers...

[Roy Langridge]

4 hours ago, wombatofludham said:

I do wonder if Hornby's 8 pin "old skool" approach might be driven by their obsessive compulsive infatuation with steam outline.  Unless you wire up the tender, with all that entails in day to day running, or have a clever idea like the slidy-outy PCB used by Dapol the complexities of which would give Hornby conniptions, really (speaking as someone who needs to DCC fit steam for "Dolgellau") a steam loco is difficult to chip with anything larger than 8pin within the loco body.  If the bulk of your output is pretty kettles, then it probably makes some sense to fit 8pin in everything when buying in components, despite the relatively low cost of said items.

 

Next18? Perfect for size constrained applications.

Roy

[Pete the Elaner]

8 hours ago, wombatofludham said:

I always thought TTS stood for tiny tinny speakers...

Nice one.

The low quality speaker fitted as standard doesn't do the decoder justice. From what I have heard, Hornby's sounds are actually quite good when played through a decent speaker.

[WolfofBadenoch]

Does anybody have any experience of back dating one of the modern 87s? I see a few shops are selling 87001(dual Named) and 87002 (Royal Soverign) pretty cheap - alot cheaper than the next pair to arrive. I'd want to move them back to the 80s so i can see i'd have to remove the fire extinguishers + aerials. Has anybody done this or can anyone tell me with this would just be a case of unclipping the extras? Is there anything else extra on these compared to the earlier models (87010 / 87035)?

 

Thanks.

[adb968008]

58 minutes ago, WolfofBadenoch said:

Does anybody have any experience of back dating one of the modern 87s? I see a few shops are selling 87001(dual Named) and 87002 (Royal Soverign) pretty cheap - alot cheaper than the next pair to arrive. I'd want to move them back to the 80s so i can see i'd have to remove the fire extinguishers + aerials. Has anybody done this or can anyone tell me with this would just be a case of unclipping the extras? Is there anything else extra on these compared to the earlier models (87010 / 87035)?

 

Thanks.

Depends how far back your going, but pantographs and headlights are different too.

 

heres an original class 87.

https://www.hattons.co.uk/244021/hornby_r3580_class_87_87035_robert_burns_in_br_blue/stockdetail

i’m noodling an 87001 to renumber as 87002, as represented in 2010 before CS duties, but I have 87002 in Intercity ( as Lima made it, from my childhood, sentimental, and 87002 in CS already, and a spare 87010 Intercity burning a hold in my mind…)

 

Edited February 6, 2022 by adb968008