Bachmann Press Day - July 2017

[phil-b259]

Dismiss why not ?                  

 

        Ok, in these cases the colour photos are preserved examples, if there are any coloured photos of Thompson's in LNER service they would be much appreciated to be viewed.

        Does  anyone seriously think the quality of the scumbling even slightly compare with the Bachmann effort ?. Bachmann have simply done panels all the same colour with little or no variation between each panel. Teak is a beautiful subtle grained  wood it does not have streaks/lines . Look at the detailed Hornby Gresley coaches from 5 to 10 years ago that is what the graining should look like.

 

 

 

Please remember that the real Thompson coaches had a STEEL body painted to look like Teak. Thus they are no different in principle to Bachmann's models which are a plastic body painted to look like Teak.

 

This is how the 'Teak' effect was produced on the real things http://www.diyinfozone.com/graining-creating-a-wood-grain-effect

 

Yes, if the painting is done by hand, then the resultant patterns will be slightly more varied than done by machine, but fundamentally NEITHER will be random either as if humans have to think about something the result is never random*

 

 

*If you are asked to produce a list of 10 numbers between 0 and 100, very few people will quote the same number several times nor cluster them all together at the lower or higher end of the permissible range - yet if the selection is truly random then both options are just as valid as any other sequence.

Edited July 7, 2017 by phil-b259

[micklner]

Ignoring the yellow lining , Hornby managed this in 2011. This what Teak should like on a r.t.r Coach.

 

 

 

Sadly in 2017 it has ended up like this, even better MFI Ikea etc lookalike they have done the same to Gresley and Thompson Suburban Coaches.

 

 

 

Reasons for this ?

 

One obvious one cheaper to produce 2017 has at a guess far less layers of printing. Hornby stated that the cost of the 2011 versions was due to the large number of printing per side.

Or current China factories have no idea what wood grain looks like. Hornby are then stuck with them once received in UK.

Edited July 7, 2017 by micklner

[Horsetan]

Please remember that the real Thompson coaches had a STEEL body painted to look like Teak. Thus they are no different in principle to Bachmann's models which are a plastic body painted to look like Teak....

 

It helps me now to remember the real full-size things as "Fotique", and the Bachmann product as "Plas-Teak"

[Legend]

The pie chart of 'locomotives by brand' looked interesting, and accords with my perception of shelf occupancy in model shops. Have they got to parity with Hornby overall I wonder (units/net worth of sales, whatever)?

Note that the pie chart refers to the number of products each manufacturer has on offer not the actual £ sales or units sold.

[Andy Y]

It helps me now to remember the real full-size things as "Fotique", and the Bachmann product as "Plas-Teak"

 

Oh just give it a rest with the 'funnies' please; they aren't and they don't add anything to any meaningful discussion.

[chris p bacon]

Ignoring the yellow lining , Hornby managed this in 2011. This what Teak should like on a r.t.r Coach.

 

1 gresley.jpg

 

 

Sadly in 2017 it has ended up like this, even better MFI Ikea etc lookalike they have done the same to Gresley and Thompson Suburban Coaches.

 

 

1 gresley 2.jpg

 

Reasons for this ?

 

One obvious one cheaper to produce 2017 has at a guess far less layers of printing. Hornby stated that the cost of the 2011 versions was due to the large number of printing per side.

Or current China factories have no idea what wood grain looks like. Hornby are then stuck with them once received in UK.

 

But what you are linking to there is coaches from another manufacturer that are meant to be Teak, this is Steel painted as Teak, it's always going to look 'fake' and should do.

[Ian Hargrave]

Referring to Mick's request for colour photos of the original.You have to keep to the forefront of your mind that there was a long hard period of shortage of practically everything when they were constructed. Food and other commodities were subject to the dreaded ration book.We think we are now undergoing a period of austerity ? It is nothing in comparison with post war austerity Britain ,I assure you.

 

Good quality cameras (and those with an interest in railway photography) were in short supply and were purchased at your friendly chemist who also arranged for development and printing if you had no dark room.Film was the same and colour film was virtually non existent.I think it was the mid 50's and the advent of 35mm colour slide cameras like the Ilford Sportsman before colour photography got into its stride. Important also to remember that the printed colour image was often blurred and inaccurate in tone.

 

So if you do want an accurate .....as built late 1940's......piccy of one of these,you're searching for the proverbial hen's tooth.Sorry chaps.

[micklner]

But what you are linking to there is coaches from another manufacturer that are meant to be Teak, this is Steel painted as Teak, it's always going to look 'fake' and should do.

 

      Sorry built of Steel is irrelevant , the discussion is how to present the Teak colouring , hence my earlier further examples . It doesn't have to look fake , scumbling done well is a good as the real thing .

 

      Just search on Google for images of Scumbling Teak there are loads of examples of how it can be painted. A couple of pages back there is a Black and White photo post 46  showing the quality of the graining etc on a real Thompson Coach.

 

This is hopefully the look, Bachmann will try and produce on the final examples. Fingers Crossed !!

[Andy Y]

Anyway; it isn't scumbling - that's an ageing effect, completely different. It's known as faux grain.

[micklner]

faux or scumbling something or whatever    

['CHARD]

Carflats looking very promising, hopefully to an equivalent model spec to the Oxfords - chocks etc...  All being well, their arrival in the shops will be some time after my wallet recovers from their counterparts   

 

Now, the first generation Freightliner wagons in all their corporate pomp - stunning!!!  I can't make any justification for them whatsoever, but... ... ... 

[Andy Y]

 

Are those wheelsets to a different design to Bachmann's current ones - they look to be a shouldered plastic axle with metal wheels fitted?

 

I've checked and they are Mk1 coach wheels.

[coachmann]

When printing woodgrain using just two colours, it might be an idea to reduce the contrast between the two so that the grain is less obvious. I painted these some years ago, but I don't know how manufacturers would print this subtle effect. That said, I always bear in mind that the detail we see in a digital image is not always so obvious when handling an actual model...

 

[JohnR]

Those look good to me. It seems to my untrained eye, that the real-life versions had a much subtler grain effect than that which appears on the Bachmann models. 

[Ian Hargrave]

Those look good to me. It seems to my untrained eye, that the real-life versions had a much subtler grain effect than that which appears on the Bachmann models.

 

Yes ....well you are looking at work by a master craftsman.As the song goes..."Nobody Does It Better" than Larry.

[coachmann]

Yes ....well you are looking at work by a master craftsman.As the song goes..."Nobody Does It Better" than Larry.

Some would add...."at ripping up track..."   

[Kelly]

Liking those Birdcages, I can see a use for either set on the current plans (oh yay for factoring multi-era operation into the planning). The Mk2s look good too, wonder if they'll follow with a DRS DbSO? the car flats look nice too, some of those will be of interest too, especially with appropriate era cars to an equally good quality (little point having crappy cars with a hi-fidelity model after all). The H2 will also be of interest. Good stuff.

 

I have no interest or knowledge of the LNER so won't comment on the teak controvosy some seem to be commenting on. It is perhaps one of those things to reserve judgement until seen in the flesh so to speak.

 

Good all round really.

[Guest eddie reffin]

Spent the last half hour comparing pics of the DBSO with images on Flickr. The only glaring thing is the lack of step under the drivers door and shut lines. I've read somewhere about the catches on the end cover being at the wrong height but they all seem to be in slightly different places after maintenance has taken place.

 

All in all, a good looking piece of kit and can't wait to get a ScR one!

[Willie Whizz]

The answer is blindingly obvious - Bachmann just need to borrow a couple of Coachmann's teak carriages on long-term loan, and ship them out to China with instructions that the production painters are to be locked in a sealed room (well-ventilated though; we wouldn't want them inhaling paint mix ingredients and coming to harm) and not allowed out until they've identified a technique to get the same effect on a mass-production basis, and at a cost that remains on the right ball-park.

 

Seemples!!

[Bob Reid]

Spent the last half hour comparing pics of the DBSO with images on Flickr. The only glaring thing is the lack of step under the drivers door and shut lines. I've read somewhere about the catches on the end cover being at the wrong height but they all seem to be in slightly different places after maintenance has taken place.

 

All in all, a good looking piece of kit and can't wait to get a ScR one!

 

As you say Eddie - they ended up all over the place as there was no fixed position and the clamps were a separate fitting from the cover. It is sad that folk will spend so long trying to find or be the first to spot some error rather than just accept them at face value.  Perhaps there's a premier league for mistake spotters?

 

DBSO Waverley by Andrew McConnell, on Flickr

 

In later years they ended losing them and occasionally you would trip over one in the yard at Craigentinny. Play spot the differences with the cover on this one and the different positions they've been in...

 

DBSO 9707 Edinburgh 26/10/1989 by Michael Agnew, on Flickr

[Guest eddie reffin]

Hi Bob,

 

That one at Waverley was one of the ones I found on Flickr. 

 

The one thing that does matter is that the colours match the forthcoming Oxford Rail Mk3s.

[Bob Reid]

Hi Bob,

 

That one at Waverley was one of the ones I found on Flickr. 

 

The one thing that does matter is that the colours match the forthcoming Oxford Rail Mk3s.

Hopefully Oxford Rail will look at what Bachmann have done already, or there'll hell to pay at Froth United

[chris p bacon]

      Sorry built of Steel is irrelevant , the discussion is how to present the Teak colouring , hence my earlier further examples . It doesn't have to look fake , scumbling done well is a good as the real thing .

 

      Just search on Google for images of Scumbling Teak there are loads of examples of how it can be painted. A couple of pages back there is a Black and White photo post 46  showing the quality of the graining etc on a real Thompson Coach.

 

This is hopefully the look, Bachmann will try and produce on the final examples. Fingers Crossed !!

 

Sorry but you are wrong.  Scumbling is an effect, this is Fake or Faux grain. 

 

Faux grain will always look wrong because it is 'Flat' with no relief that you get with timber/teak. No matter how good the craftsman is, he cannot replicate the shading and differences there are in the grain of real Teak.   The fact you can see the 'grain' in a B&W photo of faux grain means it's already 'larger than life' 

 

I'll wait and see what Bachmann come up with for a finish, the coaches are already streets ahead of what went before but no doubt there'll be criticism no matter what they produce.

[R Marshall]

Agreed - looking at the Birdcage stock with more than envy. The stock is totally wrong for me, and I wont be getting any as its the wrong area - but if Bachmann made a nice ex-NER stock rake, then I think the results would be fantastic. Something like these... in fact that J21 would go well with them.

 

j21_997.jpg

 

Wearhead_station_geograph-2354909-by-Ben-Brooksbank.jpg

Lovely pics - the 2nd is Wearhead, I think, but where's the 1st?

[R Marshall]

Andy,

 

Can you feed back to Bachmann?

 

If so, happy that you pass on this picture, which shows the rear sandboxes on the late batch J72s - below the footplate, behind the rear footsteps - the CAD image for the late BR version doesn't show this. All the batch 69001 to 69028 had these. On the other batches they were in the cab, I believe. I don't think the earliest batch had the bunker rear handrail. I offered help to Bachmann earlier through the website, but that offer has not been taken up, as yet. Maybe you'll have more success.

 

As for all the moaning about the teak Thompsons, I can't believe that Bachmann could have done a better job - if I modelled in OO, I'd want a full rake! I think I can justify some N examples , eventually, to mix with some blood and custard.

 

Regards,

 

Roy